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JustABozoOnThisBus

(23,364 posts)
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 03:13 PM Apr 2017

2nd doctor, wife arraigned in genital mutilation case at Livonia [MI] clinic

Source: Detroit Free Press

For the second time in a week, authorities have charged a metro Detroit doctor with breaking a federal genital mutilation law, this time arresting a suburban physician and his wife for allegedly helping another doctor perform genital cutting on 7-year-old girls in a Livonia clinic.

According to a criminal complaint unsealed Friday, while a doctor removed parts of the girls' genitals, the wife of the clinic owner held the girls' hands "in order to comfort them."

Two months later, Dr. Fakhruddin Attar, 53, and his wife, Farida Attar, 50, both of Livonia, were arrested Friday morning at the Burhani Medical Clinic in Livonia, where the alleged cuttings took place.

All three defendants are part of a small, Indian-Muslim community known as the Dawoodi Bohra, which was at the center of an Australian genital cutting prosecution that sent three people to prison in 2015.



Read more: http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/detroit/2017/04/21/genital-mutilation-livonia-clinic/100747468/



Mutilating little children should earn them a long sentence.
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2nd doctor, wife arraigned in genital mutilation case at Livonia [MI] clinic (Original Post) JustABozoOnThisBus Apr 2017 OP
Poor girls. A lifetime of pain and dysfunction in the most intimate aspect of their lives. SunSeeker Apr 2017 #1
Glad US authorities are cracking down on this barbaric "religious" practice. redstateblues Apr 2017 #2
Obviously there is a difference in severity, but wouldn't circumcision fall under that category too? Crash2Parties Apr 2017 #3
A male can still have sex later in life without immense pain. christx30 Apr 2017 #4
FGM is a nice way of saying removal of an entire sex organ, namely the clitoris. SunSeeker Apr 2017 #8
Actually it would be akin to removal of the glans; most of the clitoris is below the surface. Crash2Parties Apr 2017 #14
They don't just remove the tip of the clitoris. nt SunSeeker Apr 2017 #15
So you're that knowledgeable about FGM? WinkyDink Apr 2017 #22
Not even close. Merlot Apr 2017 #9
I'm active in a group that exists to stop FGM; I'm well aware of what it is. Crash2Parties Apr 2017 #12
What is the name of your group? SunSeeker Apr 2017 #17
There is definitely a discussion that can and should be had around male circumcision WRT RedWedge Apr 2017 #10
I guess I see them both as barbaric; one is far more invasive and destructive. Crash2Parties Apr 2017 #13
No they are not. 58Sunliner Apr 2017 #16
Saying FGM is akin to the accepted, nondisabling practice of circumcision is counterproductive. SunSeeker Apr 2017 #19
One is illegal; one is not. Next argument? WinkyDink Apr 2017 #23
Seven-years-old is beyond infancy, BTW. Male circumcision is not functional destruction, nor is it WinkyDink Apr 2017 #21
If believed in hell I would say these horrific people would burn there. nycbos Apr 2017 #5
The children need to be taken away from their parents. PearliePoo2 Apr 2017 #6
FGM needs to be stopped around the world! Lonestarblue Apr 2017 #7
other religions malcolmboeing Apr 2017 #11
Google. WinkyDink Apr 2017 #24
Yes. 55% women in Niger, only 2% Muslim counterparts. uppityperson Apr 2017 #25
MAKE AN EXAMPLE OF THESE SICK FUCKERS Skittles Apr 2017 #18
I find this to be sexual sadism. WinkyDink Apr 2017 #20
It's imperative that immigrants be told before arrival that this is a felony punishable by prison... Hekate Apr 2017 #26
... orleans Apr 2017 #27
The FBI has a FGM tip line: 1-800-CALL-FBI (225-5984) SunSeeker Apr 2017 #28
after hours surgeries, no record,told not answer questions. Doctors knew it was wrong. lock them up. Sunlei Apr 2017 #29
Some victims are speaking up. JustABozoOnThisBus Apr 2017 #30

SunSeeker

(51,690 posts)
1. Poor girls. A lifetime of pain and dysfunction in the most intimate aspect of their lives.
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 03:50 PM
Apr 2017

These "doctors" should permanently lose their licenses and get hefty jail sentences. Horrible.

Crash2Parties

(6,017 posts)
3. Obviously there is a difference in severity, but wouldn't circumcision fall under that category too?
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 03:55 PM
Apr 2017

Both make changes to an infant's genitals without their consent (which cannot be granted until they are much older). Clearly FGM is orders of magnitude more severe, but why do we as a culture allow any at all?

christx30

(6,241 posts)
4. A male can still have sex later in life without immense pain.
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 03:59 PM
Apr 2017

FGM is a barbaric practice that causes horrible pain for the woman during sex. That's why it's done in those backwards cultures. To make sex painful, she won't run out and lose her virginity until she's forced to by her "husband".

SunSeeker

(51,690 posts)
8. FGM is a nice way of saying removal of an entire sex organ, namely the clitoris.
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 05:36 PM
Apr 2017

It would be akin to the removal of the penis. Without a clitoris, women cannot orgasm, which is why these barbarians remove it: to assure a woman is "chaste and virtuous." Sometimes they also remove and/or sew together vaginal lips, leaving only a tiny hole for menstrual blood and urine to pass through, to assure the woman does not have intercourse before marriage. That of course causes horrific pain and infections.

Removal of the male foreskin does not affect a man's ability to have or enjoy sex. And it does not cause lifelong pain and dysfunction. Indeed, I know a man who had to have his foreskin removed as an adult because it had tightened so much it was causing pain upon erection.

Although I agree with you that routine circumcision is medically pretty indefensible, saying it is in the same category as FGM grossly minimizes what FGM truly is.

Merlot

(9,696 posts)
9. Not even close.
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 05:38 PM
Apr 2017

I've heard people ask that before. Please read up on what FGM acutally does to the woman. It's not just about sex, it makes urination, childbirth, and periods painful. and there are many health complications. It's barbaric beyond any comprehension.

RedWedge

(618 posts)
10. There is definitely a discussion that can and should be had around male circumcision WRT
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 05:50 PM
Apr 2017

consent. Bringing it up in discussions around this barbaric practice isn't always helpful.

Crash2Parties

(6,017 posts)
13. I guess I see them both as barbaric; one is far more invasive and destructive.
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 06:28 PM
Apr 2017

However I've had conversations with men who as adults feel violated b/c they were circumcised. Yes, it is orders - multiple orders - of magnitude less extreme but they are on the same continuum.

SunSeeker

(51,690 posts)
19. Saying FGM is akin to the accepted, nondisabling practice of circumcision is counterproductive.
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 07:04 PM
Apr 2017

It is counterproductive if your goal is to stop FGM anyway. Putting FGM in the same category as circumcision is what FGM apologists do to justify the practice.

 

WinkyDink

(51,311 posts)
21. Seven-years-old is beyond infancy, BTW. Male circumcision is not functional destruction, nor is it
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 07:17 PM
Apr 2017

illegal.

Old, hashed, and re-hashed specious attempt at equivalency.

PearliePoo2

(7,768 posts)
6. The children need to be taken away from their parents.
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 04:08 PM
Apr 2017

How could any mother do this to her daughter? Mommy and daddy need to go to jail.
This is one of many examples why I have NO fucking use for religion.

Lonestarblue

(10,063 posts)
7. FGM needs to be stopped around the world!
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 05:17 PM
Apr 2017

This practice is both cultural and religious. This is one case where religious freedom should take a backseat to education about harmful practices. For people from regions practicing female mutilation, I would fully support a re-education policy that communicates to immigrants that they will be jailed and then returned to their countries of origin if they harm their female children. Barbaric! And how on earth did a doctor performing FGM get a license to practice here?

uppityperson

(115,679 posts)
25. Yes. 55% women in Niger, only 2% Muslim counterparts.
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 07:30 PM
Apr 2017
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_genital_mutilation

Religion
Further information: Religious views on female genital mutilation
photograph
Keur Simbara, Senegal, abandoned FGM in 1998 after a three-year programme by Tostan.[131]
Surveys have shown a widespread belief, particularly in Mali, Mauritania, Guinea and Egypt, that FGM is a religious requirement.[132] Gruenbaum has argued that practitioners may not distinguish between religion, tradition and chastity, making it difficult to interpret the data.[133]

FGM's origins in northeastern Africa are pre-Islamic, but the practice became associated with Islam because of that religion's focus on female chastity and seclusion.[p] There is no mention of it in the Quran. It is praised in several hadith (sayings attributed to Muhammad) as noble but not required.[q][136] In 2007 the Al-Azhar Supreme Council of Islamic Research in Cairo ruled that FGM had "no basis in core Islamic law or any of its partial provisions".[137][r]

There is no mention of FGM in the Bible.[139] Christian missionaries in Africa were among the first to object to FGM,[140] but Christian communities in Africa do practise it. A 2013 UNICEF report identified 17 African countries in which at least 10 percent of Christian women and girls aged 15 to 49 had undergone FGM; in Niger 55 percent of Christian women and girls had experienced it, compared with two percent of their Muslim counterparts.[141] The only Jewish group known to have practised it are the Beta Israel of Ethiopia. Judaism requires male circumcision, but does not allow FGM.[142] FGM is also practised by animist groups, particularly in Guinea and Mali.



http://www.unfpa.org/resources/female-genital-mutilation-fgm-frequently-asked-questions
Is FGM required by certain religions?
No religion promotes or condones FGM. Still, more than half of girls and women in four out of 14 countries where data is available saw FGM as a religious requirement. And although FGM is often perceived as being connected to Islam, perhaps because it is practiced among many Muslim groups, not all Islamic groups practice FGM, and many non-Islamic groups do, including some Christians, Ethiopian Jews, and followers of certain traditional African religions.

FGM is thus a cultural rather than a religious practice. In fact, many religious leaders have denounced (clip)

What is the link between FGM and ethnicity?
Ethnicity is the most significant factor in FGM prevalence, cutting across socio-economic class and level of education. Members of certain ethnic groups often adhere to the same social norms, including whether or not to practice FGM, regardless of where they live. The FGM prevalence among ethnic Somalis living in Kenya, for example, at 94 per cent, is similar to the prevalence in Somalia, and far higher than the Kenyan national average of 21 per cent, according to the most recent information available.

But there are exceptions. In Senegal, for example, there are major variations in FGM prevalence among Mandingue women, depending on where they live – 55 per cent in urban areas versus 84 per cent in rural areas. Similarly, FGM prevalence among the Poular ranges from 41 per cent in urban areas to 56 per cent in rural areas.


- See more at: http://www.unfpa.org/resources/female-genital-mutilation-fgm-frequently-asked-questions#sthash.KNuDroeu.dpuf

Hekate

(90,789 posts)
26. It's imperative that immigrants be told before arrival that this is a felony punishable by prison...
Sat Apr 22, 2017, 11:46 PM
Apr 2017

It's also imperative that it be added to the category of mandatory reporting by doctors, clergy, teachers, psychologists, and cops, just like other forms of child abuse. It doesn't matter if they send the girls back to the Old Country to have this done, causing it to be done should be a felony here.

Put teeth in those laws. Make being part of this country mean something.

It's not a religious act -- it's nowhere in the Koran. It's a tribal holdover that persists, and is deeply misogynistic. In the name of keeping women chaste it induces a lifetime of pain and dysfunction. It is not at all analogous to male circumcision.

Cultural practices connected to control of female sexuality and male fetishism are extremely hard to stamp out. Chinese foot-binding that broke bones and crippled little girls for life was one of those. It was becoming unpopular among one small class of people: those with a Western education; but ultimately the only means of actually stopping it across the whole society was the persistance of the Chinese Communist Army in visiting villages and forcing families to unbind their daughters' feet.

To bad FGM can't be undone that easily. But to me it points to a lesson: laws must change and laws must be enforced.

SunSeeker

(51,690 posts)
28. The FBI has a FGM tip line: 1-800-CALL-FBI (225-5984)
Sun Apr 23, 2017, 03:49 AM
Apr 2017

The FBI has a tip line for victims of female genital mutilation, or anyone who might suspect such activity. They can call 800-CALL-FBI (225-5984) or submit a tip via FBI.GOV/FGM.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/22/health/detroit-genital-mutilation-charges/index.html

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
29. after hours surgeries, no record,told not answer questions. Doctors knew it was wrong. lock them up.
Sun Apr 23, 2017, 09:45 AM
Apr 2017

Parents need some type of charges, not as harsh as the Doctors involved. They need to find the other girls harmed by these Doctors.

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