all about Customer Service. Just ask Nordstrum.

glad to hear it has nuttin to do with a dying middle class....

ten ton elephant in the room. Nordstrum comparison I use is the only Model for Brick and Mortar. And yes they are thriving only because of their Demographics Studies. Hunch says they see the hand writing on the wall that the Middle Class is shirking big time.

If the Rethugs crash our Economy like they are sure to do,Nordstrum will most likely be the one who will be the first to right size their operation. The next pull back will make 2007 look like a boom cycle.

a store front, rent, utilities, and other expenses that Amazon can get away with, or pay a lot less. Also, Amazon's predatory practices which started with them avoiding sales tax for years, and then continuing by pricing a lot of their merchandise at cost to undercut their competition.

In my view that has done tremendous damage

USA Today: Amazon could be a lot bigger than we think

https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/news/2016/10/20/amazon-online-sales-bigger-larger/92419572/

Amazon's yearly sales account for about 15% of total U.S. consumer online sales, according to the company's statements and the Department of Commerce.

But the Seattle e-commerce company may actually be handling double that amount — 20% to 30% of all U.S. retail goods sold online — thanks to the volume of sales it transacts for third parties on its website and app. Only a portion of those sales add to its revenue.

from 2005-2010,caught most Retailers with a couple of things. Leveraged Buyouts by aggressive Activist Investors(Corporate Raiders) loaded these Retailers with unsustainable debt. And with the destruction of the Middle Class buying power with the Housing Collapse as well as the associated effects of just that alone,left these Retailers wide open for Amazon as well as Wall-Mart to capture much of the buying public.

believe it was Ackman and his Pershing Investors behind that one. They also tried to do it with Target, but Target managed to fight it.

later sold that group to Federated Department Stores,all this was a Tax Loss Business deal. As far as Ackman,we only have to look at CP Rail and his so called Business Acum. As a Rail Fan we here the real story on this one,the Canadian Government stepped in to save this Company from Bankruptcy. All this Guy wanted was the workers Pension Funds.

Amtrak.

A mall near where I work has a Nordstrom and Target anchored there. The area is practically a model of "Tale of two cities", an obvious wealthy and poor area. The Sears bailed out little over a year ago.

A shrinking middle class is also another factor. But so is rampant expansion. Since moving into the marketing function of the company I work for, the mentality is more stores = more sales. So their is an inherit flaw to expand. We've recognized that expansion is highly over saturated in some areas, so much so, its contributing to a lot of failure. And then there are other areas that need expansion, but not in large amounts. It, a hard an unpopular decision to say "we need to shrink in a number of markets and grow marginally in others". It's far easier to let things fail and blame it on something else.

And then there is another issue. Some stores serve niche markets...which can be very fickle. If that niche becomes unpopular or over saturated, there goes your store.

from Wal-Mart on-line to give to someone as a Christmas gift. A few days later, I received the gift set in the mail - the return address was not Wal-Mart but a small Mom&Pop gift shop in New York state...

Even Wal-Mart is gravitating toward the on-line, order-taking and distributing market!

"order processed by XXXX, fulfilled by YYYY" Amazon has been doing that for years.

And it arrived in an Amazon box.

A couple of years ago, I ordered a dvd set from Ebay and it was shipped to me directly from Best Buy!

One day soon, all shopping on-line will be literally ONE-STOP shopping!

Don't bother calling them to complain as they say they've NEVER EVER heard of such things as this going on.

Lying pigs they are.

are outsourcing services and products to each other - it's smart business, actually!

n/t

and they tell you it is a 'seasonal item'. So then I go to Amazon and buy the stuff that grocery stores don't carry anymore. And the other day I was actually looking at Walmart to see if they carried the pickled beets that grocery stores don't carry any more because they all have to replace every brand with their own Kroger brand which is usually inferior. That is what is the matter with brick and mortar stores. And I make my own clothes because those stores only carried things in black, white, gray and red. Not my colors. I'd say a lot of companies are using the Trump method of running businesses.

The EBay seller is using leftover boxes with Amazon or BestBuy printing on them because they're the right size.

My spare room is jam-packed with empty Amazon boxes of various sizes because I don't want to throw them away.
They're great boxes and all different sizes.

If anybody wants some extra Amazon boxes (only used once) drop me a line.

But I really do think that lots of big box/big name stores have Ebay and Amazon close-out stores out of which they sell stuff because they know that many shoppers like me check Amazon or Ebay BEFORE we'd think about Googling for a store's website...

the product order was processed through Amazon fullfilment, and the price had gone up. That's why I hate Amazon even thought I use them. They are putting a lot of brick and mortar businesses out of business though I don't believe that to be the case in the analogy I just gave. I do have neighbors in our nice upper middle class neighborhood who tell me that they go try on jeans in our local department stores and then go home and order them off of Amazon because they save a few dollars. I always ask, but what happens when all those stores close an you can no longer try them on before you buy them? The local store doesn't charge you shipping and handling, which is the few bucks you save on-line. And trust me, I buy a lot of stuff on-line, but most of the stuff I buy on-line I buy because it's available on-line before I see it in the stores. i.e. Home Shopping Channel (HSC) and QVC always have new products that I haven't seen in stores yet, so I don't mind paying for the S&H if it meets a need that the brick and morter stores don't.

of the proprietor. Deny WM or Amazon their cut and ensure more of your money goes straight to the mom & pop by buying straight from them. Usually a little online research will readily reveal the actual seller.

p.s. and no, I don't feel guilty for denying Jeff Bezos or the WalMart heirs their pound of flesh. When they start paying their fair share of taxes and stop trying to get rid of the estate tax, come talk to me then.

Those jobs will multiply like there's no tomorrow.

... I don't need a sarcasm tag for that, do I?

for several months and while the pay wasn't bad (daughter made $13 - $14/hour for the Amazon employees, about $9 - $10/hour for temp agency employees) there were no benefits offered. No health insurance (getting Obamacare subsidized insurance is a nightmare as Missouri is a red state) and no paid holidays either...

He immediately took credit for the good parts of the economy so this also belongs to him.

who can blame the retailers for losing confidence in America since it has been tragically compromised by the freaking lie-besotted KGOP & their russian mob handlers.

Of course he'd off-shore the whole thing so it is closer to his foreign bank accounts. There is that.....

than to go into a store.

I buy far less online now than I did 5 years ago. Shipping costs have
made online more expensive than heading to Walmart. I visited Amazon
the other day and barely recognize the layout.

Batch of crooks selling on this site.

Soon we will all be working in coal mines anyway.

Would be a huge story and talking point for all the politicians.

Also, retail isn't "contained" to certain regions or states so there's no demagoguery of the dreaded "other" to play to...

The time and logististics, costs, health preparations and planning of making a 45 mile round trip to town is balanced against the necessity of going to a store and buying things. Can I put off a shopping trip and combine it on the day as my doctor's appointment? Is it too hot/cold/rainy to leave the dog outside while I'm gone? Is the chosen shopping day going to have more traffic, crowded venues with longer delays than usual, like holidays or weekends? Do I need to stop and get gas or go to the bank, what about lunch? Can I find a disabled parking space, or is the parking lot well lit and is there a security staff?

I've become a convert of online shopping simply because it's much easier and faster, and it's so convenient to stay in the comfort of my home. I don't have to cope with any other rude shoppers or their screaming kids, or discourteous store clerks, and there's no pushing a heavy cart around looking for the stuff I want.

For many items, I think online virtual stores is going to be the new normal of the future. Most items we buy don't really need to be shelved in a brick and mortar store, but there will always be some things that need to be seen, touched, tried and tested in person, so stores will still be around.

People do not have money to spend. Not consumer confidence. Not online store. Peoples wages have not gone up. There are large portions of unemployed. Unemployment only counts those who collect unemployment not those who have already used it up or underemployed. Kept asking thr GOPers what's going to happen when we can't buy the crap they are sending over any more. Looks like we are going to find out.

the aging population. I'm one of them. At some point a lot of people decide they have way too much crap anyway and don't need anything else. That's why downsizing is so popular among the 50+ demographic. Plus, once you retire very few of us have much discretionary income, so there's that.

In my opinion I see this as a good thing because I've always despised our country's conspicuous consumption and emphasis on shopping and acquisition of cheap, low-quality goods. Even some DU'ers on here who are very environmentally conscious don't realize that all this acquisition of goods (most of which are unnecessary) contributes greatly to environmental degradation.

Online isn't quite the answer, either. (I still regularly patronize Costco, Nordstrom and several different pet food stores, because online is also terribly inefficient.) Then again, these specific retail entities are examples of how not to adapt. Staples? They sell office furniture made by companies who use prison labor FFS. Bebe? I don't even know anyone who has ever claimed to be wearing something they bought at Bebe. JC Penney? They managed to resist reinventing themselves for more than 20 years... pretty much what happened with Sears, Kohl's and Kmart.

clothing, etc, there will always be a demand to see/feel/try on/smell the item before purchasing.

But I can envision many of the brick & mortar outlets going away and shoppers needing to commute further to get to an actual store of any type...

Most of the places that are going under are mid level places that the suburbs were keeping alive, and it's not just places that sell clothing, it's mid level restaurants.

Strip malls here look like meth mouth, all those empty, blank storefronts where thriving businesses used to be.

And don't point to online sales. Those aren't the whole problem, especially when it comes to clothing and shoes, things that need to be tried on to make sure they fit.

This is just one more example of how successful the attack against the middle class has been.

Restaurants and car dealerships are going the same way. We are being downgraded to Family Dollar, General Dollar and Subway.

I see people stocking up at Big Lots and The Dollar Store before they go across the street to fill in the gaps at Wal Mart.

Fifteen years ago, that was not the case. Retail was thriving. Now strip malls are being bulldozed and the rubble not even carted away.

What I'm seeing around here is a Depression, hidden by a booming stock market.

And how many of us benefit by a booming stock market?

That's the problem.

Especially with loyalty coupons

because it's closer than Office Max.

However, a lot of their food is marginal and families are pretty much living on it.

When Wal Mart is too expensive, something is very, very wrong.

That would be the incredibly low purchasing power of the average worker.

Their return policy is so liberal it is easy to order several different styles and sizes and return the ones you don't want.

And the difference between them and brick and mortar stores can be bridged.

Was your snark really warranted? My comment was polite disagreement. Nothing more.

Beyond that, my feet are a little odd -- extra wide, short and stubby, whatever, with bunions (Ah! A potential new pet name for Bannon --Bunion! Anyway . . .) Returning things is just barely short of painful. Also you don't know if the company will actually have all the things you order -- it has happened to me that I have ordered shoes and then had the company tell me, eventually, that the shoes were not available in the size/style/color/whatever-attribute requested, though they had no trouble accepting the order.
I would buy shoes that I can try on every time, as long as that is an option. If there were still handcraft shoemakers around, I'd try one of those. The idea of ordering a bunch of stuff and then returning most of it sounds sort of like the bad side of the afterlife, made manifest on earth.
Of all the items on earth to order delivered, shoes would be very near the bottom of my list, down around fresh seafood.

and then a trip to UPS or Fed Ex to get it boxed, labeled and returned and then there is no guarantee the replacement will fit, especially if you've got screwed up feet like I do.

I'd much rather make just one trip and try stuff on.

that actually finding what you want in your size can be next to impossible. Much wider selection on line and they will have your size.

I just bought a bathing suit on Amazon (after years of looking for one I liked at a brick and mortar store).

The only thing I buy in person these days is yarn for pussyhats. I need to feel the quality of the yarn before I'll sell something made with it. ALso I haven't found a decent place to buy yarn online. (I have no locally owned yarn shop, I usually go to AC Moore).

AS a former retail employee, the store employees are often the best customers. As teens, my friends and I talked about which mall store we wanted to work at for the discounts.

If you pay your employees so low they can't shop there (even with a discount), you won't survive.

Originally the economy was based on Agriculture. Then it changed to Manufacturing. Then it changed to Consumerism.

If people aren't buying stuff, putting money back into the economy, it contracts and we see the results.

People don't see it, unfortunately, but we are living in the most unsustainable era in human history and in our society especially.

Buy buy buy, more more more.

I haven't cut back on spending but Amazon is now the first place I go to.

Time, traffic, fuel costs..... I may be "bad", but if I can buy something online instead of driving to a big box store, I do. I'm not one who is into "shopping", but we all need things, and I prefer to spend my time on activities I enjoy.

Internet killed the everything star.

Same reasons. Big selection compared to what local shops could provide; appearance of huge inventory; no need to spend time going shopping; and so on.

Internet is just the modern-day upgrade to the same principle as catalog ordering.

In the UK Argos is a chain of catalogue shops - you go in, look through the catalogue, write down product codes on a slip of paper, and someone will go back and get your product for you (once you have paid for it).

The Internet just seemed to make things easier for them... Either click and ship, or click and collect. JC Penney used to have a catalog section... but they closed it. A catalogue shop in my opinion could be a good hybrid for retail in the future.

Mind you they recently got bought by Sainsbury's (UK supermarket chain) so I see them moving in together.

which for large items are not all carried in stores. I needed a new washer and dryer. Perfectly fine with looking online. Do not need to look at them in person, especially since you cannot try them out in stores.

We need a sofa bed or futon for guests. Even furniture stores do not have every model in their showcase, plus most chains offer discounts and free shipping and returns for online purchases. My husband refuses to buy anything he cannot see in person. Old Fashioned and Old School.

I ordered my Mother of the Bride Gown Online from Nordstrom. Find a Size 0 Petite in Nordstrom stores? Not happening because they do not have the space to carry every available size from the Designers. Free shipping and free returns. Just checked my measurements against Designers. Fit fine and just took it to a Dressmaker for slight hemming.

I like online shopping even as a Senior woman.

2 days a truck pulls up and unloads a wooden crate with ready to go mower sitting in it, Best Part, $700 cheaper than I could buy it the same model any where local. Lov it!

live out in the boonies so I buy online when its something I can't go right to a local store and get. Sorry but thats the way it is.

35 miles to the edge of tulsa, another 10 or so to get to any shopping area so we're talking 80 - 100 miles round trip. Sorry but I can't see traveling that far for a 10 dollar item.

Retailers need to get smarter and learn how to sell on the www. I can shop at 1:30 AM, while stilling in my old granny nightgown, If I don't need it right away, I buy it online. It does not have to be a big guy like Walmart or Amazon. Any site that delivers good merchandise, speedy mailing and friendly, caring customer service can be a player in this field.

I was in a Louis Vuitton today (they're the lightest purses I can get and I keep them for 25-30 years and put them through hell). There were at least 50 people in the store but only 2 sales associates. Couldn't get anyone to help me. I told hubby if I want to buy something then I'd have to buy it on line. Also prevents the snarky looks that I'm don't look like the LV "type".

It's a vicious circle

in the brick and mortar stores. That's mostly been gone for awhile.

A couple weeks ago I banged the side of my head a good wallop and the next morning had a swollen-shut black eye and a major lump (aka hematoma) where the head encountered the edge of a counter. Have inherited a hard head, but Doctor said it won't look nice for some weeks. Tomorrow I start a new contract job. Oops. Phoned a store that specializes in make-up and told the woman my story, along with the information that I know nothing about this sort of thing. She advised me to go to a different "beauty supply store" that she said has super-strength concealer make-up.

I phoned the recommended place, and then went there, again opening by announcing that I know nothing about make-up. A nice young woman asked a few simple questions and then advised me exactly what to get, and showed me exactly how to apply it. Near instantaneous high quality expertise and product. You don't get that using the Internet. There is no substitute for expertise.

Similar though less urgent considerations apply to things like camera equipment. If you can find a good camera store, you can get good quality information about products and services. Otherwise you've got a lot of photography magazines to read. Sadly there are no big camera stores left in the Detroit metropolitan area. I get a brother in Texas to go to a mega-mall there for research and report back. And when possible I buy products from the same places that provide the expertise, because I have an interest in having them stay in business.

I live in a small town and some of the small family owned businesses have good people working there. It's just that I'm old enough to remember when all stores seemed to have people like that. And the situation is getting worse, not better.

The role of leveraged buyout of retail ....They saddle the companies with so much debt that they go under...

http://wolfstreet.com/2016/07/28/pe-firm-apollo-leveraged-buyout-claires-stores-restructuring-bankruptcy/

And fewer jobs are bad for all

then I can just spit on it in the mall parking lot and return it the same day.

Ordering from Amazon, spitting, doing the return shipping... It just
takes so long.

Yes, there was already an underlying trend working against brick-and-mortar stores; but now that people's health insurance is at real risk of being taken away, consumers are inevitably cutting back.

except with niche products. Variety at low prices is what consumers want.

Sure you won't find many of the things in a big-box store, but the site offers a low cost platform to those who want to sell handmade or vintage (25+ years) goods. They refer to many of their sellers as 'microbusinesses.' They also have seller support groups.

(Disclaimer-- I have an Etsy shop that I opened this year. I sell jewelry and pussyhats in there. Link's in my signature if you're inclined to check it out).

But it's hard to find cloths in my size. Just this weekend I had to make too trips to the mall to find myself and my daughter a dress and a pair of shoes for each of us. I spent all day searching for a dress but nothing was in a size 16.

I ended up going to another store that had a smaller selection but at least carried my size.

I think I read that 67% of women are size 14 or larger but there is very little selection for us larger women in the department stores.

I can see why people turn to online retail.

As much as I'd love to lay this at Trump's feet, it's not his doing, though his policies will worsen it.

The US has something like 3X as much retail square footage as Europe or Australia. We actively promote tax and growth policies that make it cheaper to build new stores while closed ones sit empty across the street. We've gutted unions and by extension the middle class that shopped at those stores. We promote suburban sprawl instead of mixed-use neighborhoods, thereby feeding the big box stores.

Economists have warned of this for years. Now its here.

Buying from Amazon instead of at the local mall is a choice, just like at one time renting from Netflix instead of Blockbuster was a choice.

The grim fact is that since this is largely being driven by consumer behavior, there really isn't much that can be done to turn it around.

We did this...

Virtually the only thing I buy in a brick and mortar is food.

Could it be that they don't have retail jobs and the losses won't affect them personally?

How typical.