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FrodosNewPet

(495 posts)
Tue Jun 6, 2017, 12:48 AM Jun 2017

San Francisco investigating whether Uber, Lyft are public nuisances

Source: Reuters

Heather Somerville | June 5, 2017 @ 5:01 pm

San Francisco has issued subpoenas to Uber Technologies Inc [UBER.UL] and Lyft Inc for a broad scope of records on driving and business practices as part of an investigation to determine whether the ride-services companies have become a public nuisance.

City Attorney Dennis Herrera said on Monday he was seeking records to investigate whether Uber and Lyft fail to adequately serve poor neighborhoods and the disabled and whether their drivers create hazards on the road.

Herrera said the subpoenas sought four years of records from the companies, which are based in San Francisco and have an estimated 45,000 total drivers in the city. The sweeping request includes hours and miles logged by drivers, driver incentives, traffic infractions and city zip codes visited by drivers.

"No one disputes the convenience of the ride-hailing industry, but that convenience evaporates when you're stuck in traffic behind a double-parked Uber or Lyft, or when you can't get a ride because the vehicle isn't accessible to someone with a disability or because the algorithm disfavors the neighborhood where you live," Herrera said.

~ snip ~

Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-san-francisco-rideservices-idUSKBN18W2F3



The home of Uber and Lyft sure isn't very cooperative with them.
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FrodosNewPet

(495 posts)
1. San Francisco sues Uber, seeking information on drivers
Tue Jun 6, 2017, 12:52 AM
Jun 2017
http://www.reuters.com/article/employment-uber-idUSL1N1IE266

By Daniel Wiessner | Westlaw News | Fri May 12, 2017 | 5:52pm EDT

Uber Technologies Inc has been sued by its home city of San Francisco, which says the ride-hailing company is unlawfully refusing to provide information on its drivers to local officials as part of a “pattern of obstruction.”

The office of City Attorney Dennis Herrera on Thursday filed a petition in California state court demanding that Uber comply with a January subpoena seeking drivers’ names, addresses, license numbers, and the locations where they operate.

To read the full story on WestlawNext Practitioner Insights, click here: bit.ly/2rbdGuU

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
2. the drivers are independent contractors? and can work the areas convenient to them?
Tue Jun 6, 2017, 01:30 AM
Jun 2017

Anyone with a car can sign up and be a driver?

Not everyone owns a car large enough to accommodate a disabled person.

"fail to adequately serve poor neighborhoods" In poorer neighborhoods there are less car owners and probably less drivers working in the area for hire.

FrodosNewPet

(495 posts)
9. Traditional cab companies and drivers are not saints either
Tue Jun 6, 2017, 08:16 AM
Jun 2017

Personal transportation is an industry that is vital to society. It needs to be regulated. The Radian philosophy does not work to take care of the most unfortunate citizens who do not have access to personal vehicles and for whom public transportation is unavailable or inadequate for their needs.

haele

(12,660 posts)
10. My Son in Law just signed up to drive for Lyft last month.
Tue Jun 6, 2017, 12:18 PM
Jun 2017

Not saying it's the best program, but in some communities where public transit is problematic and taxis are expensive, programs like Lyft can be an alternative for people who don't have a working car of their own. As for disabled pick-up, my very large (tall and overweight) mobility challenged husband has never had a problem getting a Lyft driver to take him to his doctor's appointment and back - and to help him in and out of the car if it's a smaller vehicle like a Civic or Mini Cooper.
The local Taxis have the same problem - there's been a significant effort by the Taxi companies to make smaller economy cars the majority of their fleet vehicles, saving the larger mini-vans and sedans for special orders and group pick-ups.
A wheelchair might be problematic for both Lyft/Uber drivers and Taxies, but at least in cities, there's still typically drivers available that can accommodate medical transports that don't require a stretcher.


As for signing up to be a driver -
The SIL now drives both the Dash-Drive delivery program and rush hours for people who need to get to and from work, working on average four hours during the week and three on weekends. It pretty much pays for the car payment and provides grocery money for his growing family.
He had to pass a credit, criminal, and driving background check, his car was inspected and he had to go through an interview and a half-hour test drive around the area to ensure he could both use their app and knows the area he'll be driving in.
His car is required to be no more than 5 years old; not just clean, but in good working condition. They were lucky; his dad decided to invest in his "business" and cosigned for a discounted three year old used economy car in good condition to get him started.
He lives - and drives - in a poorer community where the median wage for a family is around $40K a year, and there are large "gaps" in the public transit system that often leave three to five sq.miles of neighborhood without nearby service, and he sets up for "carpool" service - two/three pickups at a time - when he does his rush-hour drives.
Since they have two children, he also puts the outgrown infant car seat along with the booster seats in the trunk when he drives in case he has a call that requires transporting young children.

That requirement for a newer model vehicle is probably why there are not as many contract drivers in poorer communities, where most people who might consider driving for Uber or Lyft in those communities are purchasing older models because they can't afford the hefty $400 - $600 a month cost (payment and insurance) for a vehicle that would pass the requirements - especially if that would all they were going to be able to make and the vehicle would also have to be the family car.

Downside - while SIL can still set his hours and take a several month long "vacation" from driving (if for some reason he can't or doesn't want to drive), if for every month he's recorded as driving, he doesn't maintain a 4 out of 5 rating from his fares, or if he gets a hit on his driving record, he's dropped from Lyft and cannot re-apply for at least a year.

Again, not saying being a contract private driver is better or worse than being a more regulated taxi driver, but there's not a whole lot of difference between the two in most cities. And even servicing a lower income community, SIL can earn more on average driving at his own schedule than the average taxi driver does driving full time by the end of the month.

Haele

 

Hulk

(6,699 posts)
3. I drive for both in the Vancouver/Portland areas...
Tue Jun 6, 2017, 03:11 AM
Jun 2017

I've been doing this about a year now. It's the ONLY way I would be able to afford a newer car. Social Security and a small pension barely pay the rent and monthly bills.

We are "private contractors", which is a nice way for Uber and Lyft to shirk responsibility to their drivers. Both take a 25% cut from the ride. Lyft at least offers the passenger an option to leave a tip...$1, 2, ? or nada. Uber figures riders are going to pull a bill out of their pocket and hand it to the drivers, which is a rare occurrence. (As in any service industry, tips make a big difference.)

We get a "ping" to head off to a ride, not knowing exactly where they are or where they intend to go. I've gotten pings that are 20 minutes away, and after learning the lesson the hard way a few times, I don't accept anything further than 10 minutes away now. I've driving 20+ minutes to take someone to the corner store for my $3.77. A waste.

We do NOT know where exactly the pick up is until we accept. We can cancel a ride if we chose, but I rarely do. Certainly not regarding a neighborhood...but then, this isn't San Francisco either. Not sure if the neighborhoods are much worse there? Doubt it.

I do know we are required to take service animals. I've accepted dogs before, and the riders usually send me a message when I'm coming to see if it is acceptable for me. NOW we are required to take service animals, but I probably would anyway. I've also taken passengers in wheel chairs before. I've had to dissemble the wheelchair and pack it in the back of my Prius. It works. I've had people send me messages to see if I can accept a bike also, but unless the front wheel comes off, my car won't manage a full length bike. Some drivers have bike racks, but damned few that I've seen.

For someone in their late 60's who wants to work on MY time and make anywhere from $12-20 and hour, it's OK. You won't get rich, and that's all before taxes. Probably a good gig for college kids, or people who want to drive to get out of the house, etc. NOT "a job" I would aspire to.

Some drivers have deluxe cars, and get luxury rates, or large suv's and get XL rates that make it more profitable, but then they suck gas or cost a lot more too. Most of my drives I enjoy. I've had some great conversations with many riders, and we enjoy each other's company. Some are cold or assholes, but that's the real world out there, right?

I'm near 70, and my Prius is a 2012 and nearly paid off after a year and few months. It worked for me. I know the taxis are taking a hit, but they need to upgrade their technology to compete. We do offer convenience and a good price comparatively. You know how many minutes, exactly, that it's going to take us to get there, and you have a good idea of the total expense for the trip. Taxis keep you guessing and fretting.

My two cents worth.

C Moon

(12,213 posts)
4. A neighbor of mine has a HUGE Cadillac SUV...
Tue Jun 6, 2017, 03:29 AM
Jun 2017

a few months ago, he made a very large sum of money driving one person to Las Vegas.
Rare, but it happens.

FrodosNewPet

(495 posts)
6. Perhaps the fares will come back up when the traditional taxi industry is dead?
Tue Jun 6, 2017, 05:06 AM
Jun 2017

However, as soon as self driving cars are ready, Uber and Lyft will drop you like a hot potato.

They have repeatedly admitted that they cannot continue to keep burning through cash at the present rate of losses. Drivers are leaving the platform, only to be replaced by lower quality drivers with worn out jalopies. Customers do love them, until they run into the inevitably eventual problem of either getting picked up at all, riding in a dirty car, riding with a disgruntled and/or obnoxious driver, or having their account hacked by a Russian who bought their account credentials for a buck or two on the dark web.

Make money while you still can, but don't take on long term debt with the anticipation that the gig will last forever.

 

Hulk

(6,699 posts)
11. It is short term....and should ONLY be short term.
Tue Jun 6, 2017, 02:33 PM
Jun 2017

Not so sure about many of your claims though. Drivers do "leave the platform" as it does get old, or people find better gigs where they can actually make a living wage. The worn out jalopies is a stretch. Not sure of anyplace but the city I work in, but there are PLENTY of cars, and I have yet to see one that is "dirty" or run down looking. I wash my car nearly daily, by hand, clean all the windows, vacuum and keep it in top notch condition. I get compliments often on how clean it is, in fact. I realize that's just me, but the few times I've wasted time sitting in the holding lot at PDX Int'l Airport, ALL the cars parked near me are clean, sharp looking and the drivers vary from driver to driver, as with any collection of employees. Many are young adults, subsidizing their incomes or filling in between jobs. Some are immigrants who would be representative of NYC taxi drivers. I think most, in my observation, are people similar to myself...seniors trying to make the dollar stretch.

The subject of "self driving cars" doesn't bother me at all. I wouldn't get in one, no matter how cheap the ticket. I'm thinking millions of other riders feel the same way. I'm sure that's coming some day, but I'm going to speculate that it's long after I'm dead and gone. If it happens before then, well, so be it. Not worried at all though.

As for Uber and Lyft dropping me "like a hot potato".....no doubt in my mind they would like to cut us out. Uber in particular couldn't give a rat's ass about their drivers. We take 75% of their profit, and they'd like to figure out a way to screw us out altogether. Right now the push and pull seems to be the threat of unionizing, which would probably never happen, but it would be a good threat to hang over their heads at the very least.

Finally, it is a short term answer. Taking out "long term debt" would be ill advised regardless of the future. I've been doing this for a year and 3 months. I drive much less than I did when I started, and I still have my nights when I enjoy myself with the riders, and nights when I get the occasional asshole that turns me off. I do pull in a couple hundred a week, and until the Prius is paid off, I'll continue feeling the necessity to go out and drive. I enjoy driving anyway. I also enjoy the opportunity to give my wife a little space and see the city and rub up next to the excitement of tourists anxious to see the sights and sounds of my hometown. It's a short term gig. I'm almost 70, and I don't see myself doing this in the next five years. I maybe could, but age takes it's toll on the reflexes and health....so nope, not for me.

FrodosNewPet

(495 posts)
7. Another example of how Uber is becoming an undercover taxi company
Tue Jun 6, 2017, 05:35 AM
Jun 2017

Uber driver arrested for strong arm robbery

http://www.abcactionnews.com/news/region-north-pinellas/palm-harbor/uber-driver-arrested-for-strong-arm-robbery

WFTS Webteam | June 4, 2017


According to the Pinellas County Sheriff's Office, Jared Combs and his friend were getting dropped off outside a Palm Harbor home early Sunday morning. But seconds after getting out of the car, they say their Uber driver got out of control.

Driver Alexander Troy had picked the men up from a friend's house and was scheduled to drop Jared off at his home, then take his friend to his house. But the friend needed to run inside Jared's house to grab something. Before he could do that, the two say Alex Troy started peeling out and yelling at them out the window.

Troy then apparently got out of his car and ran after them up the driveway, claiming they canceled their fare and didn't pay. Combs tried showing the driver their receipt, but instead of calming down, he says the driver ripped his pricey gold chain his friend was wearing right off, then drove away.

~ snip ~

Pinellas County deputies arrested Alexander Troy a couple hours later at his house in Clearwater. The gold chain was still in his car. He's now charged with strong arm robbery.

~ snip ~

 

Hulk

(6,699 posts)
12. And there are drivers who get mugged, slapped around, etc.
Tue Jun 6, 2017, 02:55 PM
Jun 2017

You can always find the isolated scare story to spread. Uber has come to central Mexico where I live as well, and there have been drivers beaten ON video. It can happen to anyone, anywhere, for any reason - regardless of being an Uber driver or a pedestrian. I do think your story is scare hype. Yes, it probably happened, in some fashion; but we are talking about an isolated incident that is news to me. I've heard other isolated stories too, about alleged kidnapping attempts, etc. How much is fact and fiction, God only knows.

Guess the point I'm trying to make is stories like your post do nothing to the reality of what the drivers are like. You can find a molester, a thief, a sicko in ANY job. To spread rumors that cast more fear in our already paranoid society does no one any good.

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