so the Russians got what they wanted

I have to say that I'm disappointed Obama didn't take a more aggressive public stance to hold all of Congress accountable for free and fair elections. The Russians got away with it and so did the Republicans.

It does no good to blame him m now, but I wish he'd taken a firmer public stand. Have a plan for pushback against the right wing nonsense Fox would have disgorged about election tampering, but ignore the despicable McConnell and tell the public what was happening.

Does he regret not speaking out last fall? I've read that he kept quiet because McConnell threatened to accuse him of being partisan during an election. I really hope Obama had a better reason than that, to stay quiet.

generally do it without consideration of talk radio.

those would be the 1200 or so radio stations that were already screaming about how obama and the dems were fighting voter id and immigration laws and giving millions of illegal aliens drivers licenses so they could vote. the rcons had been pushing the voter fraud fraud heavily since rove to use it to successfully enable passing voter suppression/id laws all over the country.

another great success for koch think tanks and now putin because dems have no clue what rcon radio has been doing for 30 years.

like not voting in 2010 etc because obama couldn't beat 20 years of single payer lies and myths from the radio.

according to sam nunberg trump studied talk radio in 2014 (gabriel sherman for new york magazine 4/3/16) most of the putin trolling/hack-work piggybacked 30 years of hillary and liberal hate. yet dems can't even poll for the talk radio trump connection that should be obvious.

this entire comey event from his consideration of the political implications of who or what to talk about re russians and emails is another eg of the incredible stupidity of the dem party and progressive orgs ignoring talk radio - the benghazi/email event was nothing without letting a few hundred liars on 1200 radio stations blast the country with benghazi lies.

obama and all dems made calculations based on relative political strength and capital and the only advantage the republicans, the only reason they are even viable, is their talk radio advantage which is completely dependent on dems and liberals ignoring it.

our politicians will stick their necks out a lot farther when dems finally start getting their backs and stop ignoring talk radio and the few hundred assholes screaming their attacks and lies from behind call screeners and dump buttons.

until dems stop ignoring rw radio republicans should get all the blame for this crap. all of them and their media hacks should be getting a RUSH tattoo on their foreheads.

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for the purpose of not affecting the public's trust of our election system. That's what I think.

I remember someone (Obama?) saying that it's important that the public have complete trust in our election system. (despite evidence to the contrary, apparently; we, the little people, cannot be told the truth)

I'm tired of information being withheld from us. They work FOR the public. Or they used to.

Proof enough for me.

Impeach.

communicating directly or through a 3rd party (no, asking for them to do it on national TV does not count unless you can prove he had been discussing it with them before he made the absurd request) because you need evidence of a crime on his part and not Russia's to impeach.
Even if you had the evidence he might not be impeached if you can't get enough Repugnants to support it.

Why would him asking on national TV not count?

communication to establish an actual intent.

meanwhile he did say it on national TV

Impeach and convict now!

Brennan Report clearly stated that optical scan system “poses a real danger to the integrity of national, state, and local elections.” Even the Democratic Party now states on their own website, “Diebold optical-scan machines have been proven to be vulnerable to
tampering.”

and that's just the op-scans. the paperless DREs are completely open to hacking and any kind of audit or recount is meaningless.

Somebody has been hacking elections since 2000.

"We don't give a shit that America and American democracy is under attack with ACTS OF WAR* being perpetrated by the evil empire** of russia. We got our beloved family-values role model and Draft Dodger in Chief into office, snicker, so tuff shit for you American citizens." - republican party

* per dick cheney
** per ronald reagan

they don't care about this country

Last edited Tue Jun 13, 2017, 07:32 AM - Edit history (1)

Is there any doubt now that Trump and God only knows how many
other Repugs were put into office by Russia?

It was a coup, we had treason, and this was an act of war.

*******

Both McConnell and Ryan knew

God only knows how wide and deep this corruption goes.

How did McConnell know if he waited until after the election he would have
somebody else to vote for for SCOTUS?


https://www.democraticunderground.com/10028671176 (NY Times Article)

Paul Ryan & Republican Establishment Used Hacked Info From Russia Against Democrats:

Let's not forget that a super PAC tied to Paul Ryan used material provided by Russia's hacking of the DNC and DCCC.

It was known that Russia had stolen material from the DNC and DCCC and a Paul Ryan Super PAC and as well as other Republican groups used it.

It wasn't just Hillary Clinton being attacked. It wasn't just Trump benefiting. There's potentially more collusion than just that between Trump's team and Russia.

seriously

I think we've passed that point.

If an act of war occurs but no one in a position to take action wants to do anything, it's as if it never happened, right? So sayeth the traitorous puke leadership.

Besides, why mess with success, say the pukes. We're gonna ram through wildly unpopular legislation soon--considering the backlash that will ensue after Muricans find out how they've been screwed on taxes and healthcare, and that we're selling the country's assets out from under them to the oligarchs, how do you expect us to "win" in 2018 and 2020 without some help from our friends the Russkies?







These self-righteous sociopaths think they know what's best so they have the right to take any means to their ends.

WTF happened? This should have been made public then, but wasn't. Bad move IMO.

Russerica

.

United States of Soviet Russia

since it makes clear more of what went on and the scope expanded significantly.

and that's how they will continue to get away with it

This (from the article) is fucking weak as hell: "One of the mysteries about the 2016 presidential election is why Russian intelligence, after gaining access to state and local systems, didn’t try to disrupt the vote. One possibility is that the American warning was effective. Another former senior U.S. official, who asked for anonymity to discuss the classified U.S. probe into pre-election hacking, said a more likely explanation is that several months of hacking failed to give the attackers the access they needed to master America’s disparate voting systems spread across more than 7,000 local jurisdictions."

One of the mysteries? Are you kidding me? There is no fucking mystery. This was clearly an act of war AND an act of treason.

to Russia, for real, and therefore we are not at war.

We are being taken over by Russia, peacefully, with the assistance of the Republican Party.

I guess the Bush family dont care, or they would say something. Or McCain? Guess not.

I think most people think of software, hacking, pen-testing and unauthorized access to data as akin to speech. Many people don't understand software at a deep level, but we know that the people who do understand it "write code" in "languages" and "publish" it. By using the language of written speech, we place it in that realm and protect it with copyright and patent, so legally, we treat it as communication. But it's not. It's a tool, a part of a highly flexible machine.

The problem is we treat hacks that don't work like they're blog posts with very few page views. The message didn't accomplish its goals, so it's not a crime. It was just talking.

What these hackers did was the equivalent of planting bombs in polling places. It appears that all of the bombs were discovered in advance, and most of them wouldn't work anyway, but in the law, the act of planting even a badly made, can't explode bomb is still planting a bomb. If yahoos in 39 states had coordinated to walk into polling places and break the ballot boxes with crow bars or smash the machines, they would still be charged, even if they were all arrested before they managed to apply crowbar to box.

Or let's say someone secretly has a magical car that looks like an ordinary Honda, but really runs on sugar, has self-healing tires that benefit from slashing, and sheds spray paint. Another person has a grudge and decides to take it out on the magical car, so fills the gas tank with sugar, slashes the tires, and tags it. The car is not damaged by this, and is somewhat improved, but the person doing the sugaring, slashing and painting didn't know that. They intended to commit mischief and vandalism. Just because no harm was actually committed doesn't mean the intent wasn't there.

Not to mention that I'm not sure I actually trust the IC to tell the truth on this. They've got a history of hiding things that they think could cause civil unrest or will out their sources. They've got a lot of incentive to be reassuring and say hack attempts failed, when in fact they didn't fail.

Thanks!

Trump hasn't once mentioned the Russian interference in our most sacred civil duty as Americans. I'm shocked, SHOCKED, I tell you!

I guess Trump is too busy receiving accolades from his cabinet and staffers, not to mention playing golf, and holding rallies with his rabid, illiterate supporters.

Just another day in Trump AmeriKKKa.

And not once did he have questions or talk about Russia's actions in
hacking our elections but he did ask about the investigations into
Russia's work w/the Trump campaign.

He knew.

Don't just do something America, Stand There! Jesus, Mary and Joseph!

Spread negative, dis-information and lies about Hillary, and speed fake propaganda, etc. It was way worse than that as this article is pointing out, and we really still don't know to what extent the ruskies may have tipped the 2016 election to their big, fat, boy tRumputin.

What we do know is that come 2018, thuglicans will be locked and loaded with voter-suppression on steroids to use vs the Dems, and of course the ruskies- who never stopped meddling with our voting populace-will be back with some new and improved dirty trick of their own. Like tRumputin or his DOJ cares about how the GOP or ruskies will be cheating Dems out of their votes or out of their right to vote?

We Dems are in a heap'o trouble come 2018 & 2020's elections/voting.

Helplessness is a terrible thing, but WHAT remedies do we have to combat GOP voter-suppression on 'roids & ruskie meddling/dirty tricks?

It seems we can't count or depend on Congress, the White House or maybe even the Supreme Court. All we have is us. But are there enough of us with the awareness, concern, time, commitment and resolve to have an effect? I'm not confident.

Because of a handful of hanging chads in Florida. Because a punch card machine needed sharpening.

Serious question. I've always wondered how in the hell Bush, Jr. got to the White House,

Namely, if it is proven than the 2016 election was manipulated, CAN the result be officially declared invalid, and if so, by whom so that it would have legal force, and HOW would we proceed to re-do the election once the last one is nullified? And do the congressional and gubernatorial elections get re-done as well?

But besides on some blog, no one will ever ask these questions--at least no one with any authority that will ask them on camera at CNN, MSNBC or any major network.

Immediately invalidate the 2016 ripoff of America by a mal-intentioned russian adversary and the kremlin's stooge republican Draft Dodger in Chief, the corrupt, lying, infamous golf-cheat, Comrade Casino.

1. There is no constitutional mechanism by which an election can be voided.

2. The President is selected by the 270+ electors, period. (Technically, those electors were not even required to vote based on the election results in their states.)

This also gets back to the election of 2000, where people were saying, what happens if we ultimately find out that Gore won Florida? The answer was, it wouldn't matter. The electors from Florida voted for Bush, that's when the election "really" happened, and nothing that happened or was discovered beyond that point could alter the fact that those electors voted for Bush and thereby made him President.

My question is--SHOULD there be a constitutional mechanism to undo an election whose outcome was proven to have been manipulated to give a result other than the one that reflected the will of the electorate? We all know that there is currently no such mechanism. However, up to now, no election has been publicly and unambiguously proven to have been fraudulently manipulated. A skilled cyber forensic detective can sometimes uncover evidence that is less easy to conceal than paper ballots that have been burned.

In this case, the trail seems to be leading in that direction. Given that there is no constitutional remedy, SHOULD one be sought? CAN one be sought? And if the answer to either is yes, does anyone have the nerve, the knowledge, and the resources, time and energy to even try?

I am not disputing the current situation. I am calling for some outside-the-box thinking about if and how to deal with, and get around it. Obama, for example, once taught constitutional law. I wonder if the question has even been posed to him, though I would certainly understand if he wanted to duck it.

Unless maybe Congress could find some way to word a law to permit an election to be voided in such a way as it was not clearly at odds with something in the Constitution, then they could pass a law the usual way.

It would require some brilliant legal and intellectual acrobatics, but if voiding fraudulent election results could somehow be made a different process from removing a sitting president for offenses committed while in office, then the impeachment process is bypassed.

I wish we could put six or seven of our best legal minds in a cabin for a week, and let them work on nothing else. Include both Obamas, Hillary, RBG, maybe Breyer and either Roberts or Kennedy so we would know how the spoilers would react.

Paper ballots, independent counting, no electronic machines if your family is running for office, government needs to issue all voting aged citizens an official ID. Yes it may take several days to finalize an election, but it will be somewhat fair.

...paper vs electronic machines.

"#MAGA!!!!!!!"

No more instant gratification. Electronics has to go!

Yes I raised my voice. I am so fed up and annoyed with Democrats refusing to address this. Cutting their own throats to protect a few big Republican friendly voting machine companies.

It's so obvious a step that it's lack makes me wonder whar is really going on.

And that the Russian breach story has been reported in order to prepare the US for it.

The precinct judges, one from each party, can give assistance if needed.

How our government pretends not to know is beyond me. And how we have let them get away with it in the past and not safeguarded against it happening again is ludicrous. It's like they want this bullshit to happen. People PLEASE VOTE ON PAPER BALLOTS and help monitor elections.

You send an email to an election official w/a link in it and if thar person
clicks on the link then their computer is loaded w/malware and so when
the used their computers to look @ the central tabulators the malware
can "get into its target" and do damage.

closing/moving polling places, bought-off politicians, crooked electors, planted poll workers, and all the other dirty tricks put in place. This was a well-orchestrated coup. No doubt about it. I just pray we have enough truly patriotic, experienced lawyers and people in the DOJ, FBI, CIA, NSA who have not been brainwashed and want to can get rid of this illegal administration whatever it takes. Many governors were included in this takeover, too. Vote on paper ballots from now on and please vote in the primaries and special elections. The info about candidates is readily available online.

The early vote should have made it all but mathematically impossible for Trump
to win the state.


http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/6/16/1100706/-Red-Shift-why-it-s-important


One of my favorite mathematicians is Richard Charnin, who on his website, using readily available public information, calculates the odds of the so-called ‘red shift” occurring from the 1988 to 2008 presidential elections. The red shift refers to the overwhelming pick up of votes by the Republican Party in recorded votes over what actual voters report to exit pollsters.
In Charnin’s analysis of exit poll data, we can say with a 95% confidence level – that means in 95 out of 100 elections – that the exit polls will fall within an statistically predictable margin of error. Charnin looked at 300 presidential state exit polls from 1988 to 2008, 15 elections would be expected to fall outside the margin of error. Shockingly, 137 of the 300 presidential exit polls fell outside the margin of error.

What is the probability of this happening? “One in one million trillion trillion trlllion trillion trillion trillion,” said Charnin....132 of the elections fell outside the margin in favor of the GOP. We would expect eight.

-Bob Fitzrakis in The Free Press, 6/13/12

It affected 2016

We should not seek a diplomatic relationship with a nation actively hostile to our interests.

When we take back power in Congress, they need to immediately pass legislation designed to financially cripple Russia.

"When we take back power in Congress, they need to immediately pass legislation designed to financially cripple Russia."

at the scale that is needed. Hopefully I am wrong.

Will it be easy to take back Congress? Of course not! But that doesn't mean we can't do it.

Even facing numerous obstacles, Obama won twice. I have no doubt they tried to cheat then too. One way we can overcome their attempts to steal our elections is through significant, strong victories.

Our democracy has definitely taken a hit, but we can't stop fighting or lose hope. The ballot box is one of the most important tools we have. Yes, we should March on Washington, but if we still have a Congress that supports keeping Trump in power then we haven't changed anything.

My mother attended segregated schools in rural Arkansas. I'm sure she never thought she'd attend college, never mind attend an institution of higher learning alongside students of other ethnic backgrounds. But she did, because there were people who never gave up and they made their vision of integration an eventual reality.

I know it's hard... The Party of Russia wants us to feel helpless, defeated, and like nothing can change. They are waging not only a cyber-war with our nation, but a psychological one as well. We have to resist the urge to let go of our most precious values, rights, and institutions. One thing I am doing is returning to serve as a poll-watcher. There are small and large things we can do to make a difference.

Did you even finish reading my post?

Including your call to March on Washington, which I agree with.

But I take issue with the question asking whether they will "let" that happen. I'm sure there were forces that didn't want to "let" slaves be emancipated and those who didn't want to "let" integration happen. But those things did, indeed, happen. You can't stop progress. I don't think we should concern ourselves with what they will "let" happen. We have to work towards achieving a just and fair outcome and let the chips fall where they may.

"Do you think they will let that happen" is in response to them letting us vote them out. Our elections being compromised and we are going to right that wrong by voting them out.... Yeah ok. Good luck with that. In addition to potentially (probably) hacked elections the assault on our voting rights continues full speed ahead. I NEVER said that we should concern with what the will let happen in the slightest. QUITE the opposite.

We should have gotten the hint when they stole a USSC judge sesat. But then it was "when we win the election we will nominate someone". NO more "when we win the election". Not when our elections are compromised.

By all means we should be getting ready for 2018 but how much faith are you putting into an election system that we have known has been in trouble since at least 2000? And one that has gotten progressively worse.

Ourconstitution doesn't have a provision for "do over" elections that I know of.

We have a compromised election system as of right now. There is only one thing we can do and that is to force our government to hold a new election by will of the people. And we have to force them to do it in a manner that is verifiable and accurate.

We asre so very off course as a country right now that the only way we can get back on track is for people to make it so.

on national news....every day til people wake up and change our voting systems in the states to paper ballots.

Where is the panic???

I won't hold my breath.

Are you kidding me?! If this is true, the whole fucking Republican Party had to have been in on the game. And what the fuck happened at the White House -- no public disclosure because of concerns about public confidence in national elections?? WTF? How'd that work out? Wouldn't we have been better off as a nation lacking confidence BEFORE the election than after? Jesus, Mary and Joseph!

What?



And, on another note, while the Russians certainly wanted to undermine confidence in the electoral process, the GRU and FSB apparently didn't do it themselves. They contracted this out.

Those doing the hacking would probably like access to 15 million legal names. DL #s, partial social security numbers, dates of birth, etc. Credit-card fraud is a big business in the S-SW portion of European Russian-speaking territory.

Instead of using computers, use HAND-COUNTED PAPER BALLOTS.

1. No need to verify the vote
2. Nothing to hack into
3. Cheaper, all things considered
4. Assures a REAL Democracy, not just pretense

But it's nice to dream.

Bleh. Feeling cynical

I trust the math more than I trust all these stories about how Russia didn't ACTUALLY affect election outcomes...the facts coming out are getting more incriminating every day!

the statistically insignificant chance that climate change is not caused by humans.

The odds of flipping all 5 Midwestern battleground states. A poster on another thread criticized silver's statistical methods but it's becoming a moot point to me. We know Russians tried to hack the vote... If somebody shoots you but you survive because you're wearing a bullet proof vest they will still be charged with attempted murder. Instead, this admin is doing shady business deals with Russia, giving them back multiple properties used for espionage and even tried to get the sanctions on them lifted.

Isolate all machines and tabulators from the internet, and do the same for the voter rolls.

that we have lost our Country since our votes don't count anymore??
All this complaining on DU doesn't do a damn bit of good??
This is why trump is doing the things he does? he's laughing at us!! he's not as stupid as he acts!!
So, what is the solution? No one is listening!!

MSM was reporting on it!!!!

self deleted after whatever change was made.

I will always be suspicious about the huge blocks of 90,000 ballots where president choice was blank. everything else voted for and president choice blank! also the piles of mail-in votes where they were deemed invalid because of a SCRIBBLE in write in area.

who give a shit about that.

Neither have the Republicans. Nothing.
If they aren't complicit...then what the fuck is their malfunction???!!

We must make sure the Russians can't hack our voting machines. USA should vote by mail like Oregon --- just my opinion.

before the Mainstream Media Reports on it. But, more than that- when will the Democratic Party stand up for its own voters?


ELECTION FRAUD DOCUMENTARIES:

1.
Stealing America: Vote by Vote (2008 Documentary)
7/10
Filmmaker Dorothy Fadiman shines a spotlight on the gritty reality of the last decade's most egregious incidents of U.S. electoral insecurity. (90 mins.)
Director: Dorothy Fadiman
Stars: Peter Coyote, Brad Friedman, Greg Palast, Paul Craig Roberts
Add to Watchlist

Image of Electoral Dysfunction
2.
Electoral Dysfunction (2012 Documentary)
7.1/10
'Electoral Dysfunction' uses irreverent humor to illuminate how voting works - and doesn't work - in America... (90 mins.)
Director: David Deschamps, Leslie D. Farrell
Stars: Mo Rocca, Alexander Keyssar, Jamin Raskin, Mike Marshall
Add to Watchlist

Image of Hacking Democracy
3.
Hacking Democracy (2006 Documentary)
7.9/10
The film the voting machine corporations don't want you to see. HACKING DEMOCRACY follows investigator/grandmother... (82 mins.)
Director: Simon Ardizzone, Russell Michaels
Stars: Bev Harris, Harri Hursti, James Naughton, Mark Radke
Add to Watchlist

Image of Bush Family Fortunes: The Best Democracy Money Can Buy
4.
Bush Family Fortunes: The Best Democracy Money Can Buy (2004 Documentary)
6.8/10
Greg Palast has been following the Bush family around for years as an investigative reporter for the BBC. This is some of the information he has found, as recorded in his book "The Best Democracy Money Can Buy". (61 mins.)
Director: Steven Grandison
Stars: Clayton Roberts, Greg Palast, Jim Hightower, Bill White
Add to Watchlist

Image of Unprecedented: The 2000 Presidential Election
5.
Unprecedented: The 2000 Presidential Election (2002 Documentary)
7.8/10
(50 mins.)
Director: Richard Ray Perez, Joan Sekler
Stars: Peter Coyote, James Baker III, Ed Baker, Corrine Brown
Add to Watchlist

Image of Uncounted: The New Math of American Elections
6.
Uncounted: The New Math of American Elections (2008 Documentary)
7.8/10
UNCOUNTED exposes how the election fraud that altered the outcome of the 2004 election led to even greater... (80 mins.)
Director: David Earnhardt
Stars: John Conyers, Clint Curtis, Bob Fitrakis, Brad Friedman
Add to Watchlist

Image of Free for All!
7.
Free for All! (2008 Documentary)
8.8/10
One Dude's Quest to Save Democracy. A FilmBuff Presentation. (100 mins.)
Director: John Ennis
Stars: John Ennis, Ken Blackwell, Greg Palast, Jerry Springer
Add to Watchlist

Image of A Little Light'll Do Ya: Defending Democracy in America
8.
A Little Light'll Do Ya: Defending Democracy in America (2005 Documentary)
-/10
Blacked out or dismissed as 'conspiracy theories' by corporate news outlets, reports of massive vote... (55 mins.)
Director: James Heddle
Add to Watchlist

Image of Murder, Spies & Voting Lies: The Clint Curtis Story
9.
Murder, Spies & Voting Lies: The Clint Curtis Story (2008 Documentary)
8.9/10
The true story of computer programmer Clint Curtis who, in 2000, claims he was asked by future Congressman... (68 mins.)
Director: Patty Sharaf
Stars: Cliff Arnebeck, Clint Curtis, Bob Fitrakis, Brad Friedman
Add to Watchlist

Image of Citizen Koch
10.
Citizen Koch (2013 Documentary)
6.6/10
A documentary that follows the money behind the rise of the Tea Party. (90 mins.)
Director: Carl Deal, Tia Lessin
Stars: David H. Koch, Charles G. Koch, Scott Walker, Floyd Abrams
Add to Watchlist

Image of Gerrymandering
11.
Gerrymandering (2010 Documentary)
7.1/10
Takes a hard look at the framework of our democracy and how it provides our politicians a perfectly legal way to control electoral outcomes. (81 mins.)
Director: Jeff Reichert
Stars: Dave Aronberg, Ben Barnes, Gray Davis, Howard Dean

http://www.imdb.com/list/ls066724450/