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Poll_Blind

(23,864 posts)
Mon Jul 30, 2012, 02:07 AM Jul 2012

Massive India blackout leaves 300 million without power

Source: MSNBC

A massive grid failure in Delhi and much of northern India left more than 300 million people without electricity on Monday in one of the worst blackouts to hit the country in more than a decade.

The lights in Delhi and seven states went out about 2 a.m and had not been restored by the morning rush-hour, leaving the capital's workers sweltering overnight, then stranded at metro stations in the morning as trains were cancelled.

Blackouts are frequent in much of the country, including major cities. Chaos reigned on Delhi's always-hectic roads as stop lights failed.

"I'm 45 minutes late for work. First, no power since 2 in the morning, then no water to take a shower and now the metro is delayed by 13 minutes after being stuck in traffic for half an hour," said 32-year-old Keshav Shah, who works in a multinational software company 30 km outside the capital.

Read more: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/48391005/ns/world_news-south_and_central_asia/#.UBYj6SJiLTp



300 million people.

PB
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Massive India blackout leaves 300 million without power (Original Post) Poll_Blind Jul 2012 OP
Wouldn't this outage cause major problems in the US also, since most of our tech jobs are in India? Booster Jul 2012 #1
well, if the jobs are in India then they aren't OURS are they? CBGLuthier Jul 2012 #11
It's downright Pavlovian. (nt) Posteritatis Jul 2012 #14
As I stated down thread- the key words are "who works in a multinational software company" BeHereNow Jul 2012 #16
You missed my point. People here trying to get tech help not the job itself. Jeeezz. Booster Jul 2012 #26
Is that somehow a less provincial reaction? (nt) Posteritatis Jul 2012 #32
Now I get where you get your screename. Booster Jul 2012 #34
No, it is not a provincial reaction jberryhill Jul 2012 #39
best study how they handle it rootProbiscus Jul 2012 #2
"Chaos reigned on Delhi's always-hectic roads as stop lights failed." jberryhill Jul 2012 #3
Video on GMT this morning showed gridlock. redqueen Jul 2012 #38
Grid failures, coming to a town near you! NickB79 Jul 2012 #4
With every house having AC this is certainly in our future. Remmah2 Jul 2012 #24
Possibly. Igel Jul 2012 #29
I've been in NYC during two blackouts. Remmah2 Jul 2012 #33
Like our whole country, all at once. Unimaginable. n/t pnwmom Jul 2012 #5
My God, Whom Do They Call For Tech Support! jberryhill Jul 2012 #6
"So, is it hot in India?" NickB79 Jul 2012 #7
300 million in India without power?? thelordofhell Jul 2012 #8
Did I somehow end up at Free Republic? UnrepentantLiberal Jul 2012 #9
Not the response I expected either. Did I Just Type This Jul 2012 #10
Indian threads bring them out of the woodwork. CBGLuthier Jul 2012 #12
DU always gets exceedingly bigoted when India's mentioned in an article. (nt) Posteritatis Jul 2012 #13
Key reference: "who works in a multinational software company 30 km outside the capital." BeHereNow Jul 2012 #15
Or, y'know, maybe just a vast, fragile, overloaded power grid breaking. Posteritatis Jul 2012 #17
My thought exactly. Myrina Jul 2012 #18
So let us examine the record of multi national corps in other countries along with our own. BeHereNow Jul 2012 #20
Electical power generation is nationalized in India hack89 Jul 2012 #27
See my sig line. Myrina Jul 2012 #28
Oh, wow. Igel Jul 2012 #30
That's just what they want you to think. Posteritatis Jul 2012 #21
Perhaps a overloaded power grid, because like here, the multi nationals REFUSE to BeHereNow Jul 2012 #19
Holy wow. mathematic Jul 2012 #22
What I find far more likely, for the record- BeHereNow Jul 2012 #23
K & R this post! lonestarnot Jul 2012 #25
Not everything's US-centric. Igel Jul 2012 #31
I didn't realize they had PEPCO in India LiberalEsto Jul 2012 #35
Second blackout in India in two days leaves 670 million without power Eugene Jul 2012 #36
k&r tawadi Jul 2012 #37

CBGLuthier

(12,723 posts)
11. well, if the jobs are in India then they aren't OURS are they?
Mon Jul 30, 2012, 07:01 AM
Jul 2012

Such provincial thinking around here.

BeHereNow

(17,162 posts)
16. As I stated down thread- the key words are "who works in a multinational software company"
Mon Jul 30, 2012, 09:16 AM
Jul 2012

Which company? A US based company that is offshoring their profits, not paying taxes in the US OR India.
Do the workers have health insurance, pensions plans and the right to unionize?
My guess would be "no."
And my first suspect would be hackers.

The workers of the WORLD must unite in a global workers rights declaration.

When I first read this article, saw the mention of a multi national, I thought of
cyber hackers, who protest the now accepted abuse of global workers.

I resent no one in another country for being employed, but if WE are all to survive
the global multi nationals, we must unite GLOBALLY as a work force.
With equal rights and protections for ALL.

BHN

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
39. No, it is not a provincial reaction
Tue Jul 31, 2012, 02:23 PM
Jul 2012

Wondering whether a power outage in India will have effects here is a recognition of the global interconnection of economies and functions.

If someone in Silicon Valley is waiting for the overnight code from Bangalore to meet a deadline, that is hardly "provincial" thinking.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
3. "Chaos reigned on Delhi's always-hectic roads as stop lights failed."
Mon Jul 30, 2012, 02:13 AM
Jul 2012

This is a significant event.

However, having seen Delhi traffic, I do not believe that "chaos on roads" due to failure of traffic signals would even be noticed there. There is little mind paid to them on a normal day. Other disruptions must be of epic proportion, and I hope they can restore power to critical functions quickly.

redqueen

(115,103 posts)
38. Video on GMT this morning showed gridlock.
Tue Jul 31, 2012, 02:02 PM
Jul 2012

Vehicles everywhere, no movement.

I hope it didn't last too long.

NickB79

(19,257 posts)
4. Grid failures, coming to a town near you!
Mon Jul 30, 2012, 02:16 AM
Jul 2012

It's just a matter of time before the US power grid starts to fall apart just like this.

 

Remmah2

(3,291 posts)
24. With every house having AC this is certainly in our future.
Mon Jul 30, 2012, 10:40 AM
Jul 2012

Not just AC but consumer demands for electric keep going up and up.

Lots of houses have two refrigerators and two freezers and 8 TV's. How many of our hobbies burn electricity or oil? ATV's, jet skies... What ever happened to good old fashioned walking and hiking?

How much energy burning stuff do we really need?

I'm heading to the garden with my sun screen and sun hat......................... happy tomatoes, garlic and zucchini everyone.

Igel

(35,337 posts)
29. Possibly.
Mon Jul 30, 2012, 02:00 PM
Jul 2012

I've lived in three states that showed really foolish behavior. California, New York, and Texas.

I figure the others just weren't put in the right circumstances to demonstrate their foolishness.

California had power up north and not south. It needed transmission lines to get the power south. Nobody was willing to build power plants in the south--but environmental and social justice concerns trumped them. Nobody was willing to build transmission lines from the north--think of the environment.

New York gets a lot of its power from out of state or from the West. Those in the eastern part of the state suck up power but don't want the inconvenience of the mess. To get power to NYC they needed to build new power lines. They knew this. They'd said this for years. But it would have to go through the outer layers of the NYC population sprawl, and those outer layers were those people who had bought farmland cheap and watched it become upper-middle class. Those power lines would reduce the view. It was messy and inconvenient. (Giuliani's response was mini-power-plants in the City.)

Texas has similar concerns: It started putting up a lot of wind-based power plants in the mid-late '80s and they were coming on line in 2009 and 2010. What do you do with that power? Most of the population is in the eastern half of the state, the DFW, Austin, San Anotnio, and Houston areas. It needs to put in multiply redundance power-transmission lines and actually form a decent grid for moving a lot of energy. But there's resistance from land owners and environment groups. Some of the environmental groups have been really cynical: Yeah, they want to protect the environment and keep this scar from despoiling the blissful West Texan wasteland. But also they want to use the risk of scarcity to push for regulations to drive conservation and forced upgrades to more efficient appliances and equipment. Something like rolling blackouts would be a crisis that they wouldn't want to waste.


There are some weirdnesses about American power consumption. Per capita it hasn't changed much for well over a decade--ups and downs track recessions, not technology. Yet computers really suck down the watts. You have to go back decades to find a real increase in per capital consumption that doesn't dip back down. (It's like per capita federal income tax revenues--they're remarkably stable whatever the tax rate, as well.) Most of the increase in power consumption comes from an increase in population. Pretty much all of that is immigration.

The reason is carbon efficiency, how many tons of carbon per megawatt of power produced. As we've built up more and more products that require electricity we've turned to more carbon-efficient generation facilities and equipment or devices (some from government regulations, some from sound economic thinking). Carbon efficiency in the US really soared in the '80s, '90s, and through 2007. Haven't looked at the charts since 2008. (My prediction: Carbon efficiency would change less and less as a recession continues but power consumption would be way down.)

 

Remmah2

(3,291 posts)
33. I've been in NYC during two blackouts.
Mon Jul 30, 2012, 02:38 PM
Jul 2012

Not fun at all. Both were due to summer grid overload conditions. I was okay but it was hell on folks who couldn't tolerate the heat well.

Some solutions are better than others but no solutions are perfect. Several times wind farms were planned for Long Island and New Jersey but they were nixed because of the environmental impact. Coal and nuclear are worse, but it seems a wind farm might be acceptable or at least the least of the evils.

From the consumer standpoint there have been some good advances in power reduction while mantaining a quality of life. Flat screen TV's and computer monitors save lottawatts in homes and offices. I like the new LED lights a lot better than the compact fluorescent lights. Much better color rendition. Many consumer products are lots more recycleable than before.

BeHereNow

(17,162 posts)
15. Key reference: "who works in a multinational software company 30 km outside the capital."
Mon Jul 30, 2012, 09:06 AM
Jul 2012

Translation: "Works for a multi national corporation, with allegiance to NO country, most likely based in the US,
who outsourced millions of jobs while hiding profits in the Cayman Islands or a Swiss bank."

Can't help but wonder if anonymous or a similar hacking group is making a statement here.

I'd LOVE to know WHICH multinational corporation Keshav Shah worked for...

I'd also like to know if Keshav and his fellow workers had any union rights, health insurance benefits,
or pension plans.

If we knew the corporation, whose names would turn up on the Board of Directors? etc...
Does the company pay taxes in India?

Sorry, that's just where my mind goes... not enough details to follow the money, but I would not be surprised
if this were a cyber attack against the Multi National corporation on question!

BHN

Posteritatis

(18,807 posts)
17. Or, y'know, maybe just a vast, fragile, overloaded power grid breaking.
Mon Jul 30, 2012, 09:40 AM
Jul 2012

Kinda like what happened in the US and Canada a few years back, also during a hot summer.

Myrina

(12,296 posts)
18. My thought exactly.
Mon Jul 30, 2012, 09:45 AM
Jul 2012

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

People around here go "Tinfoil Chicken Little" at the drop of a hat lately.

BeHereNow

(17,162 posts)
20. So let us examine the record of multi national corps in other countries along with our own.
Mon Jul 30, 2012, 10:03 AM
Jul 2012

There is NOTHING tinfoil in FACTS.
The facts are- time and again, these multi national corporations inhabit and exploit
areas of interest to them, their interests, not ours.

They pillage the work force, the infrastructure and resources without paying a cent
in taxes or reinvestment into the country they have chosen to exploit.

SO, the logical deduction may be possible-

The black out is the result of a decaying infrastructure, due to the lack of returns
to the economy as they hide and off shore profits, OR the black out is a form of protest
against these egregious action of which ever MNC decided to exploit the workers
and resources in the region.

Not sure how familiar you are with the history of MNC pillaging of foreign labor resources and infrastructure-
but I am guessing, not very.

Perhaps some research would help inform you so that you would not immediately jump to
"Tin hat" RHETORIC.
BHN

Igel

(35,337 posts)
30. Oh, wow.
Mon Jul 30, 2012, 02:11 PM
Jul 2012

India's population is increasing. More houses, more appliances, more consumption.

India's population is becoming more urban. Instead of living in houses on farms and in villages that could be fairly electricity free, you're in apartments in a city.

India's population is becoming wealthier. Even in existing housing stock, more appliances, more consumption.

India's economic basis is becoming more based on leveraging energy instead of having people provide energy. Tractors instead of hoes. Computers instead of filing cabinets. More appliances, more consumption.

They can't build it fast enough. When they build it, immediately demand exceeds capacity.

They can't build it fast enough, they're not likely to tear down and replace what's already built unless absolutely necessary.

Electricity pirates tap into the lines so the electrical company can't even know where it's all going. It's like Iraq in 2004 and 2005--electricity production exceeded by a wide margin what Hussein's Iraq ever produced, but with population growth and increasing demand it was still a nightmare.

BeHereNow

(17,162 posts)
19. Perhaps a overloaded power grid, because like here, the multi nationals REFUSE to
Mon Jul 30, 2012, 09:52 AM
Jul 2012

reinvest A DIME in the infrastructure of the country they are raping and pillaging.

Like I said- I would like to know WHICH globalist corporation is prevalent in the region-
see the numbers on what they have returned to the local economy (i'm guessing next to zero)

Could be an infrastructure failure, sue to lack of reinvestment by the global multi nationals-
could be a protest action against them.

WE shall see.

BHN

mathematic

(1,439 posts)
22. Holy wow.
Mon Jul 30, 2012, 10:25 AM
Jul 2012

So a hacking group took out the power for 300 million indians to make a statement against the unnamed multi-national company that the random person interviewed in the story works for?

That is the craziest thing I've ever read on DU. Seriously.

BeHereNow

(17,162 posts)
23. What I find far more likely, for the record-
Mon Jul 30, 2012, 10:37 AM
Jul 2012

Is that this un named MNC, has failed to return any of its profits to the
infrastructure on the area damaged.
Can you live with that?

Better learn how to, because it is happening right here- in your own backyard.
It is called the Fracking Industry.

Woo-woo.
Grab your tinfoil hat quick, so you can pretend it isn't true.

BHN

Igel

(35,337 posts)
31. Not everything's US-centric.
Mon Jul 30, 2012, 02:15 PM
Jul 2012

India has a fairly good 2nd-tier software industry with multnationals. They don't have much presence in the US because of some corporate giants that are really good at competing (and if they aren't, they'll have the rules written to fix the oversight ... which is meant to be punny).

Their software's using in 3rd world countries that can't afford even the stripped-down prices of a lot of US products. They sell software for $30 and get a good ROI that makes economic sense; the US sells it for $30 and the ROI is too low.

There's a good chance the corporation is HQed in the US. There's a good chance it isn't. A lot of the US companies that have offshored have moved to Kerala and Tamil states, not to the north.

 

LiberalEsto

(22,845 posts)
35. I didn't realize they had PEPCO in India
Mon Jul 30, 2012, 04:01 PM
Jul 2012

PEPCO = Potomac Electric Power Co., the bane of electric customers in parts of Maryland and DC

Eugene

(61,938 posts)
36. Second blackout in India in two days leaves 670 million without power
Tue Jul 31, 2012, 09:31 AM
Jul 2012

Source: Reuters

Second blackout in India in two days leaves 670 million without power

By Frank Jack Daniel
NEW DELHI | Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:51am EDT

(Reuters) - Half of India's 1.2 billion people were without power on Tuesday as the grids covering a dozen states broke down, the second major blackout in as many days and an embarrassment for the government as it struggles to revive economic growth.

Stretching from Assam, near China, to the Himalayas and the deserts of Rajasthan, the power cut was the worst to hit India in more than a decade.

Trains were stranded in Kolkata and Delhi and thousands of people poured out of the sweltering capital's modern metro system when it ground to a halt at lunchtime. Office buildings switched to diesel generators and traffic jammed the roads.

"We'll have to wait for an hour or hour and a half, but till then we're trying to restore metro, railway and other essential services," Power Minister Sushilkumar Shinde told reporters.

[font size=1]-snip-[/font]


Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/07/31/us-india-blackout-idUSBRE86U0C520120731
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