College Professor Fired For Posting Online That Otto Warmbier 'Got What He Deserved'
Source: Mediaite
by Joseph A. Wulfsohn | 7:23 am, June 26th, 2017
The University of Delaware fired a college professor for comments she made online about Otto Warmbier, the 22-year-old American student who recently passed away after being released from North Korea.
Katherine Dettwyler, an adjunct faculty member, posted her thoughts about Warmbier on her Facebook page as well as the comments section of this National Review article.
-snip-
On Sunday, the University of Delaware issued a statement saying Katherine Dettwyler will not be rehired to teach at the University in the future. This came after a statement they released Friday condemning her online posts, saying We condemn any and all messages that endorse hatred and convey insensitivity towards a tragic event such as the one Otto Warmbier and his family suffered.
This comes as another college professor was also fired this week for her inflammatory comments she made on Tucker Carlson Tonight.
Read more: http://www.mediaite.com/online/college-professor-fired-for-posting-online-that-otto-warmbier-got-what-he-deserved/
Loki Liesmith
(4,602 posts)But the headline does not mention that this person was an adjunct. Having done that once, long ago, I remember that they are the most shit upon species of college professor...
lunasun
(21,646 posts)and yes adjunct is lowly pay and becoming more common
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)People need to recognize that when they say controversial things, it reflects on the institution. The person is free to post online that they agree with Hitler's ultimate plan, but the college or company is free to fire that person because they don't want to be associated with what they perceive to be evil or overly controversial.
Loki Liesmith
(4,602 posts)I do prefer that college professors get more leeway given the role universities play in fostering debate.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)And that statement does cross a line, in the opinion of some (incl. me). To state that a young person deserved to suffer for months alone in a brutal country such that he ended up in a coma and died, stemming from stealing a poster in a hotel, does cross a line. Particularly the way she phrased it, and the timing of it being so soon after he died. "He got what he deserved" is what you say of a serial killer who is executed according to law, not in a situation such as this. It crosses a line.
Still, she's free to say it. But it's a bad enough statement that the college wanted to dissociate itself from it, and I don't blame them.
If she were in a class, and if they were discussing the situation, she could have posed the question for discussion: Was what happened to the young man warranted by his actions? Let's discuss. But that's not what she did.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)how those Sandy Hook truther professors kept their jobs...
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)I can understand momentarily thinking that he brought this on himself, as well as his parents, but to post online that you think a death sentence is what he deserved is unconscionable...and stupid.
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)Last edited Tue Jun 27, 2017, 09:20 AM - Edit history (1)
action will have a chilling effect on the exercise of free speech and academic freedom. I would hope the AAUP takes up this issue.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)associated with such statements and beliefs.
She is free to post them online. They are free to fire her for them.
Freedom-freedom.
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)board, though.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)You need to do some research on what academic freedom is.
She's free to state her opinions. The college has an EQUAL freedom not to associate itself with such cruel comments.
What if she had said:
"Illegal immigrants who get killed by the govt deserved what they got."
"Blacks who got shot on the streets last year deserved what they got."
"Women who died while getting an abortion deseved what they got."
When not in a classroom, and NOT in a discussion of the subject matter (related to the topic of the class), this has NOTHING to do with academic freedom.
Academic freedom is NOT freedom for a teacher to say anything and everything, anywhere and everywhere, with no repercussions or accountability. Others have rights, too. Not just this teacher.
duhneece
(4,113 posts)murderous thoughts one might have. That, for me, is over the line of free speech in public, as a teacher-instructor.
teenagebambam
(1,592 posts)I can assure you we have no such thing as academic freedom, nor any expectation of continuing employment beyond the current academic year.
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)Last edited Tue Jun 27, 2017, 09:53 PM - Edit history (1)
employs you doesn't honor it and should be censured for its stance.
LuvLoogie
(7,011 posts)She is a professor of anthropology, who chose to sully the kids name with rich, white, male privilege and impunity for rape. It was a stupid wholly self-centered rant. As a professor of anthropology, she should have understood that the privilege of male impunity crosses racial and religious lines.
There was nothing academic about her rant.
Bradical79
(4,490 posts)Academic freedom has nothing to do with saying a young man deserved death for removing a poster. It's nothing but hate and also was part of a pattern showing that this professor is not capable of performing her duties as an educator due to contempt for many of her students.
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)of what "academic freedom" means.
24601
(3,962 posts)provoking discussion or conducting academic research. If a tenured professor of fine art posted a selfie taking a crap in front of a police station and claimed academic freedom protected it as performance art, there might be a college or two that (pun intended) let it pass. I'd predict that most would terminate for cause.
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)classroom" is an ananchronism that needs to be put to bed once and for all. If professors have to worry that anything they say will result in their dismissal, they will be hesitant to disinterestedly pursue "truth" wherever it might lead. Academic freedom (like "freedom of speech" exists precisely to protect this type of opinion, i.e., one a majority finds distasteful or offensive.
24601
(3,962 posts)Last edited Tue Jul 4, 2017, 06:47 PM - Edit history (1)
this post part of it or not? Determining that isn't rocket science.
christx30
(6,241 posts)with a sentence starting out with, "I'm not racist, but..." or "marriage is a sacred union between one man and one woman..." that got a bunch of people rightly pissed off, I'm sure you'd feel the same way.
Jose Garcia
(2,598 posts)atreides1
(16,079 posts)What makes her thoughts evil? Stupid, I can agree with that...but evil?
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)So that an illegal immigrant who comes here, breaking the law, deserves to be put to death? I would say that's an evil thought or belief. She's free to believe that and say it and post it online. And the institution she's employed by is free to fire her, if they don't want to be associated with such statements.
Bradical79
(4,490 posts)That's far beyond stupid.
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)jberryhill
(62,444 posts)Alice11111
(5,730 posts)Dorn
(523 posts)So she said something out loud she should only have thought to herself, that is really not a very bright thing to do. First, no one cares what you think; second, why say nasty things about a kid who has died.
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)with it.
"Adjunt" is akin to "temporary".
TEB
(12,860 posts)That poor kid
MichMan
(11,938 posts)While her comments on Warmbier were callous, it was her other statements that were more troubling to me.
She equated Warmbier with what she described as entitled young rich white males she sees regularly and then categorizes them as rapists.
No one with views like that about specific groups should be allowed to be a teacher. How would any young white male students taking her class be expected to get fair treatment?
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)I really like internet social medias because it does show a persons true colors.
I understand why employers, border guards and security agencies all want to read a persons online comments.
Coventina
(27,121 posts)What seems to be lost in this discussion, however, is:
The expectation that North Korea will treat US citizens in any reasonable manner is grossly ignorant and foolhardy.
They don't treat their own people with any sort of understanding of basic human rights. The mistaken idea that the citizens of a foreign power they despise will fare any better is mind-bogglingly stupid.
Alice11111
(5,730 posts)It were, the punishment was outrageous. This professor needed to be fired. She didnt know this person. His past as displayed showed him to be a nice guy, which is not relevant to what happened anyway.
No one likes people who act like they have the affluance
Defence, but do they deserve to be tortured?
Not all white, young men are jerks. Small number, yes.
Coventina
(27,121 posts)OPPRESSIVE!
He put his own life in danger the moment he decided to go to N. Korea.
Then, he did something incredibly stupid.
No, he didn't "deserve" it. But those are OUR standards.
People get their heads chopped off for "blasphemy" in other oppressive regimes.
You can be executed for possession the tiniest amount of marijuana in places like Singapore and Malaysia.
You don't want to play by those rules? DON'T GO THERE!!!
If you do go there, don't blame Obama when you get in trouble for breaking their stupid laws and customs.
Yes, it's stupid. It's cruel. That's why the State Department STRONGLY DISCOURAGES you from traveling to North Korea.
SpankMe
(2,957 posts)My son goes to a highly rated community college in Southern California. A number of the students there are, in fact, rich white kids to are there to smoke weed and sow their post-high school wild oats. They don't take anything seriously and make it harder for those who do. Although I'm generally on the same page as they are politically, they are a bunch of clueless, arrogant, spoiled snots.
We just don't know if Warmbier was one of these clueless, privileged brats who thought he was somehow immune to harm due to his status, good intentions and desire to learn about the world.
These profs need to keep their politics analytical and not inflammatory and personal.
TexasBushwhacker
(20,202 posts)That's really nothing new. That's why all this talk about lowering health insurance premiums for millenials is bullshit. They don't buy health insurance because they don't think they need it. You could lower the unsubsidized premiums to $100 and there will still be plenty who don't sign up.
Coventina
(27,121 posts)I made sure to get my own.
Maybe it's because my family has lots of health issues, but I was always worried about what "might happen."
TexasBushwhacker
(20,202 posts)I know people in their early 30's making good money who paid the penalty because "it was cheaper". They're paying the penalty to have no coverage rather than paying a little more to have coverage. Stoopid!
Sen. Walter Sobchak
(8,692 posts)romanic
(2,841 posts)The stupidity and arrogance of Academia is coming home to roost.
athena
(4,187 posts)What was done to this academic was wrong. Everyone has bad days; an online post should not get anyone fired. And whether you like it or not, the more academics are silenced and intimidated, the faster this country will descend to third-world status.
BannonsLiver
(16,396 posts)Alice11111
(5,730 posts)BigDemVoter
(4,150 posts)in MOST cases. In THIS case, it appears it was warranted.
SoCalMusicLover
(3,194 posts)Say stupid things, win stupid prizes.
Alice11111
(5,730 posts)Possible exception of two
Coventina
(27,121 posts)SoCalMusicLover
(3,194 posts)Guilty of a stupid crime as a young person, absolutely. Deserve to die? Absolutely not.
Perhaps his biggest mistake was wanting to go there in the first place, as opposed to the hundreds of other countries he could have visited. Hell, I've been to a lot of countries, but my list is still very long, and I'm absolutely certain that I won't cover them all in my lifetime, and even if I did, I'd hit some of them up multiple times before ever even letting a place like North Korea enter my mind as a destination. That no plans to visit list also includes such intriguing destinations like Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Sudan, Lebanon, among others.
Coventina
(27,121 posts)Yes, choosing to go to N. Korea was the biggest mistake.
Especially if he had a mindset that doing *anything* that could be construed as an affront to the regime would be REMOTELY acceptable.
It's cruel. It's unfair.
But that's why N. Korea is considered by every thinking person as one giant prison camp.
That's what it is.
Being stupid in such an environment is very likely to go catastrophically badly. And it did.
TexasBushwhacker
(20,202 posts)If so, bad on the parents. No American should travel to a country that doesn't have an American Embassy. No one.
joeybee12
(56,177 posts)And you wonder why people are not agreeing with you? Jebus
Coventina
(27,121 posts)Please, send me to Den Haag before I commit more atrocities!!
joeybee12
(56,177 posts)You've been blaming that kid just like that fired idiot. Sickening
Coventina
(27,121 posts)Just because I think he did something stupid doesn't mean I wished death upon him.
But, if you want to hate me, that's your choice.
EL34x4
(2,003 posts)I agree with every word Coventina posted on this subject.
He was an IDIOT!!!
What did he think would happen to him in North Korea? Do people not teach about this place anymore?!?!?! It is a giant, miserable hellhole!
Do I deserve to die if I stand in front of a moving fright train with my arms out, trying to stop it like Superman?
Do I deserve to die if I hop the fence into the tiger cage at the zoo wearing a necklace made from pork chops?
Do I deserve to die if I jump from the Empire State Building holding an umbrella like Mary Poppins?
Perhaps I didn't truly DESERVE to die, but...
...Am I an IDIOT for doing these things?!?!?! YES!!!!!! Just as I would be if I traveled to North Korea.
Newsflash people. North Korea is not a vacation destination!!! It is not an adventure. It is not "off the beaten path." It is a F***ING EVIL PLACE and please let Warmbier's miserable death be a lesson.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)I don't want to see her fired for having a bad moment though. Not a great job market and all.
athena
(4,187 posts)All she did was post a thoughtless comment on an online forum. Everyone has a weak moment. People have bad days. It's disturbing that an academic would be fired for an online post. It's even more disturbing that so many self-declared liberals are cheering this.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)athena
(4,187 posts)An overworked adjunct makes a thoughtless post in a moment of exasperation with some of her more annoying students, and she gets fired.
Meanwhile, two male professors who sexually harrassed female grad students are not fired:
https://www.buzzfeed.com/azeenghorayshi/caltech-students-protest-professor-harassment
https://www.insidehighered.com/quicktakes/2017/01/12/professor-accused-harassment-cancels-classes
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)The good old boy network protecting it's members.
DeminPennswoods
(15,286 posts)One of the people interviewed talked about NK firing off missiles a few weeks later and speculated that Wambier was grabbed as sort of a human shield against US retaliation. That made as much sense to me as any explanation. If Wambier hadn't gone, it might well have another American tourist arrested and framed.
Coventina
(27,121 posts)DeminPennswoods
(15,286 posts)nt
Coventina
(27,121 posts)as a human shield holds any water.
NK fires missiles regardless of any particular prisoner they have in custody.
They've amply demonstrated that they have zero fucks to give about international opinion or threats.