Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

DonViejo

(60,536 posts)
Tue Aug 29, 2017, 01:12 PM Aug 2017

Court: Excluding outside parties from presidential debates does not violate First Amendment

Source: The Hill



BY MEGAN R. WILSON - 08/29/17 12:59 PM EDT

Third-party candidates Gary Johnson and Jill Stein's rights were not violated when they were excluded from presidential debates during the 2012 campaign, a federal appeals court ruled on Tuesday. The pair, who also ran for the White House in 2016 as the nominees of the Libertarian and Green parties, claimed their First Amendment rights had been violated, alleging that their participation was denied “because of hostility towards their political viewpoints.”

The U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit rejected their argument, however.

“Every four years, we suffer through the celebration of democracy (and national nightmare) that is a presidential election. And, in the end, one person is selected to occupy our nation’s highest office,” wrote Judge Janice Rogers Brown, a George W. Bush appointee who announced she would be retiring at the end of August, in the majority decision. “But in every hard-fought presidential election there are losers. And, with quadrennial regularity, those losers turn to the courts.”

The Johnson and Stein campaigns also brought anti-trust claims into the mix, saying that the two-party system and overall requirements for participation in presidential and vice-presidential debates constituted a political monopoly of sorts.

Read more: http://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/348413-court-excluding-outside-parties-from-presidential-debates-does-not

20 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Court: Excluding outside parties from presidential debates does not violate First Amendment (Original Post) DonViejo Aug 2017 OP
This actually makes sense. Scoopster Aug 2017 #1
this is what happens when they took it away from the League of Women Voters. nt Javaman Aug 2017 #4
With the exception of Anderson and Perot, name a third party candidate who was in a LWV debate brooklynite Aug 2017 #5
doesn't matter, it allows for more parties to have a that option Javaman Aug 2017 #8
Both LWV and CPD had threshold levels for 3rd Party/Independent participation... brooklynite Aug 2017 #10
Take a look at multiple party systems...it is often the rule of a conservative minority. And Demsrule86 Aug 2017 #11
I love all this oh multiple parties are pie in the sky...have Demsrule86 Aug 2017 #19
You wouldn't believe how many folks don't understand 'free speech' exists between you & the govt. X_Digger Aug 2017 #9
OMG, what a judicial burnout statement. Definitely time for her to retire. Hortensis Aug 2017 #2
I don't see why independents should participate anyway. We have a two party system. Demsrule86 Aug 2017 #12
Wel, you know it's not two party by law. In fact, our founding fathers hoped that all candidates Hortensis Aug 2017 #15
These debates are sponsored by the two main parties...I do not think independent candidates should Demsrule86 Aug 2017 #18
Don't agree even for party sponsored debates. The two main parties have taken over Hortensis Aug 2017 #20
Good ruling FLPanhandle Aug 2017 #3
Let's see, and Trump would not have been considered a ''crackpot"? YOHABLO Aug 2017 #6
Imagine a dozen Trumps on stage for each and every debate... FLPanhandle Aug 2017 #14
Get 15% polling and you're in. Seems reasonable. Bradical79 Aug 2017 #7
Big deal...all these candidate will ever do is spoil. And recently it is the Democrats who Demsrule86 Aug 2017 #13
On the subject of debates Bradical79 Aug 2017 #16
She still managed to spoil the 16 election...her margins were enough in a close election just like Demsrule86 Aug 2017 #17

Scoopster

(423 posts)
1. This actually makes sense.
Tue Aug 29, 2017, 01:22 PM
Aug 2017

The Commission on Presidential Debates isn't a government entity - it's a 501(c)3 non-profit organization. Its decisions aren't bound by the First Amendment.

Javaman

(62,530 posts)
8. doesn't matter, it allows for more parties to have a that option
Tue Aug 29, 2017, 10:13 PM
Aug 2017

removing that option dooms us to a 2 party system forever.

brooklynite

(94,571 posts)
10. Both LWV and CPD had threshold levels for 3rd Party/Independent participation...
Tue Aug 29, 2017, 11:23 PM
Aug 2017

...and both exlcluded all but major candidates unless there was independent candidate showing significant popular support.

Demsrule86

(68,576 posts)
11. Take a look at multiple party systems...it is often the rule of a conservative minority. And
Wed Aug 30, 2017, 07:08 AM
Aug 2017

our system is set up for a two party system. I am a Democrat. The Democratic party is the only vehicle for progressive policy. Those who don't vote for Democrats are essentially voting for Republicans...whether they vote Green, Libertarian or stay home. I am pleased that traitor Stein lost. Green spoiler is what she is.

Demsrule86

(68,576 posts)
19. I love all this oh multiple parties are pie in the sky...have
Thu Aug 31, 2017, 07:57 AM
Aug 2017

you looked into the electoral results of countries that have such a system? It is not a good system.

X_Digger

(18,585 posts)
9. You wouldn't believe how many folks don't understand 'free speech' exists between you & the govt.
Tue Aug 29, 2017, 10:18 PM
Aug 2017

I hear it every day in forums across the internet, or around the water cooler at work.

They think that somehow, 'free speech' should exist between individuals, between you and your employer, between businesses and their customers..

It's just.. disheartening.

We need an online civic class, and everyone who passes it gets a $500 gross income deduction on their taxes.

Maybe that would make people understand the powers of the government, the division of the branches of the government, and the roles each plays.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
2. OMG, what a judicial burnout statement. Definitely time for her to retire.
Tue Aug 29, 2017, 01:26 PM
Aug 2017

At least her fatigue didn't keep her from affirming practices long established by the need of people to be exposed to candidates who might go on to become elected. Very un-ideal, but many maybe voters only see one or two major national debates, and that's it.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
15. Wel, you know it's not two party by law. In fact, our founding fathers hoped that all candidates
Wed Aug 30, 2017, 08:45 AM
Aug 2017

would be what we think of as Independents now. Idealistic of course, and national dynamics have never made that a real possibility.

In any case, requiring candidates to belong to one of two parties would be outrageous. I'd probably reject membership in both on the spot myself. Any independent or third party presidential candidate who gets enough support to genuinely challenge the two main party candidates should be admitted in the debates, and probably always will -- because of quite right widespread disapproval and backlash closing him or her out could cause -- but that's of course very rare.

Demsrule86

(68,576 posts)
18. These debates are sponsored by the two main parties...I do not think independent candidates should
Thu Aug 31, 2017, 07:55 AM
Aug 2017

participate in these debates under any circumstance.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
20. Don't agree even for party sponsored debates. The two main parties have taken over
Thu Aug 31, 2017, 08:10 AM
Aug 2017

the national presidential debates, which is intrinsically very corrupt. Neither allowing some independents to join private events nor excluding them can be right. I am a long-time Democrat, but I strongly oppose the collusion by both parties to eliminate independent debates sponsored by neutral organizations.

The League of Women Voters solicited my membership recently, but they didn't promise to somehow reinstitute their debates, so I tossed it, regretfully in view of what we've lost.

 

Bradical79

(4,490 posts)
7. Get 15% polling and you're in. Seems reasonable.
Tue Aug 29, 2017, 08:53 PM
Aug 2017

Not going to happen without a decent candidate though. Libertarians got to 11% in one of the polls with Gary Johnson. If they could get someone with some charisma they'd have a shot at getting on stage.

Demsrule86

(68,576 posts)
13. Big deal...all these candidate will ever do is spoil. And recently it is the Democrats who
Wed Aug 30, 2017, 07:11 AM
Aug 2017

have been affected...and I would argue the country. Stein helped give us Trump...screw her.

 

Bradical79

(4,490 posts)
16. On the subject of debates
Wed Aug 30, 2017, 02:39 PM
Aug 2017

Stein is irrelevant. She gets extremely little support and doesn't get anywhere close to the numbers the Greens need.

Demsrule86

(68,576 posts)
17. She still managed to spoil the 16 election...her margins were enough in a close election just like
Thu Aug 31, 2017, 07:54 AM
Aug 2017

Nader in Florida. I am against screwing with third parties because in our system, they simply won't work. And having looked at countries that this sort of system...it seems they live under minority rule...often conservative minority rule for years. I fail to see how it is beneficial.

Latest Discussions»Latest Breaking News»Court: Excluding outside ...