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nitpicker

(7,153 posts)
Thu Oct 19, 2017, 04:16 AM Oct 2017

Catalonia: Spain ultimatum over independence push passes

Source: BBC


8 minutes ago

A final deadline for Catalonia to drop a secession bid has passed, with Spain warning it will suspend the region's autonomy. Catalonia's leader Carles Puigdemont was given until 10:00 local time (08:00 GMT) to clarify his position. After a referendum on 1 October, he signed an independence declaration but then suspended it, asking for dialogue.

Reports suggest he will press ahead on independence if Madrid moves to take direct control. There are fears that this may lead to civil unrest in Catalonia.

Article 155 of Spain's 1978 constitution, which cemented democratic rule after the death of dictator General Franco three years earlier, allows Madrid to impose direct rule in a crisis but it has never been invoked.

Political leaders in Madrid and Barcelona have been engaged in a tense stand-off since the disputed referendum, which Catalan leaders say resulted in a "Yes" vote for independence but which the central government regards as illegal.
(snip)


Read more: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-41675105



Bloomberg Radio has announced (0415 EDT) that the Spanish government will respond at 1030 local time (15 minutes from now).
8 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Catalonia: Spain ultimatum over independence push passes (Original Post) nitpicker Oct 2017 OP
More from the above article nitpicker Oct 2017 #1
The Spanish government response nitpicker Oct 2017 #2
I was just in Barcelona on Tuesday DFW Oct 2017 #3
I've been to Barcelona several times, I love it, it's an amazing city Snake Plissken Oct 2017 #4
I never tire of visiting there DFW Oct 2017 #6
I was in Barcelona On the 7th and 8th and am now in Madrid, and as an outsider, from what I could still_one Oct 2017 #5
Cooler heads just don't seem to WANT to prevail DFW Oct 2017 #7
................. still_one Oct 2017 #8

nitpicker

(7,153 posts)
1. More from the above article
Thu Oct 19, 2017, 04:20 AM
Oct 2017

(snip)
The government will then be expected to draw up a list of specific measures under Article 155 of the constitution, launching the transfer of powers from Catalonia to Madrid. The article says: "If a self-governing community does not fulfil the obligations imposed upon it by the constitution or other laws, or acts in a way that is seriously prejudicial to the general interest of Spain, the government... may... take all measures necessary to compel the community to meet said obligations, or to protect the above-mentioned general interest." It is thought the measures taken could range from taking control of the regional police and finances to calling a snap election.

Spain's Senate, controlled by Mr Rajoy's conservative Popular Party (PP) and its allies, would then have to approve the list. The timetable for this process is imprecise.

Analysts say Article 155 does not give the government the power to fully suspend autonomy, and it will not be able to deviate from the list of measures.
(snip)

nitpicker

(7,153 posts)
2. The Spanish government response
Thu Oct 19, 2017, 04:40 AM
Oct 2017
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/18/spain-direct-rule-catalonia-deadline-direct-rule

(snip)

In a statement on Thursday morning, the Spanish government noted that Puigdemont had again failed to confirm whether or not independence had been declared, adding: “At an emergency meeting on Saturday, the cabinet will approve measures to be put before the senate to protect the general interest of Spaniards - including the citizens of Catalonia - and to restore constitutional order in the autonomous community.”

The government also criticised the Catalan authorities for “deliberately systematically seeking institutional confrontation despite the serious damage it’s causing to co-existence and Catalonia’s economy”.
(snip)

DFW

(54,388 posts)
3. I was just in Barcelona on Tuesday
Thu Oct 19, 2017, 06:04 AM
Oct 2017

"Singin' songs and a-carryin' signs
"Mostly say Hooray for our side"

(from "For What It's Worth" by the Buffalo Springfield)

I ran into one small demonstration. You couldn't even tell for which side they were marching.

For those who don't know me, I used to live in Barcelona as a teenager, and I speak Catalan. I run down there regularly, maybe 6 or 7 times a year. A year ago at this time, this issue was like an autumn leaf falling from an oak tree--visible, but not worthy of particular attention.

ALL of my Catalan friends wish this whole thing would go away, and let life get back to normal. There are a few sensationalists (Puigdemont among them) that they would like to kick down the street into a gutter for turning their lives into a potential mess that the vast majority of Catalans do not want. One of their main arguments is the same one New York or California could make for leaving as "giver states" fed up with subsidizing "taker states" like Kansas and Mississippi. But most Catalans accept this as a fact of life, and HATE that banks and other industries are already relocating to other parts of Spain for fear of suddenly finding themselves in some new small enclave of uncertain status outside of the EU. The Rajoy government in Madrid is only making things worse, as Howard Dean pointed out already 3 weeks ago, overreacting in a ham-fisted manner and playing right into the hands of the separatists. Puigdemont, for his part, isn't even paying attention to other Catalan-speaking parts of Spain, such as Valencia or the Balearic Islands.

The pragmatists in Catalunya, still the vast majority, want no part of a separation. After all, they have already won the objectives they fought for during the Franco dictatorship: Autonomy, the right to have their own language in schools, on street signs, in daily newspapers, radio and TV. "Tot això ha sigut molt radicalitzat"--"all this has become very radicalized"-- commented one of my friends there.

I guess asking cooler heads to prevail is pretty much going out of style everywhere these days. Must be something in the water.......

Snake Plissken

(4,103 posts)
4. I've been to Barcelona several times, I love it, it's an amazing city
Thu Oct 19, 2017, 06:27 AM
Oct 2017

This secession movement is just not realistic, even though the region does drive a significant portion of Spain's economy, a significant portion of Spain's taxes have gone into building its infrastructure, especially the ports where most of the commerce takes place, thus resulting in all of the multinational corporations lining that industrial area along the ports. If they separated, there is no doubt most of those companies would relocate further down into South.

DFW

(54,388 posts)
6. I never tire of visiting there
Thu Oct 19, 2017, 07:15 AM
Oct 2017

Not just because I lived there and have friends there, but indeed because it IS an amazing city. I'm very lucky it's only a 100 minute flight for me, and I can easily go down in the morning and be back in time for a late night dinner--IF I'm still hungry after the usually fabulous lunches I have there!

still_one

(92,201 posts)
5. I was in Barcelona On the 7th and 8th and am now in Madrid, and as an outsider, from what I could
Thu Oct 19, 2017, 06:39 AM
Oct 2017

see, I think your assessment is right on target, and unfortunately I think both sides have over played their hands, and I fear this will not end well


From what I gathered in intermingling with the locals is that the Catalonians are quite unhappy because Madrid takes at least half the revenue they generate, without much return

It is sad that they could not have come to a compromise, and I hope an 11th hour agreement can somehow happen

Stay safe

DFW

(54,388 posts)
7. Cooler heads just don't seem to WANT to prevail
Thu Oct 19, 2017, 07:16 AM
Oct 2017

It's almost as if someone had said, "hey things are going pretty well, here. Let's see what we can do to fuck it up."

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