Top House Dem: Trump's power to pardon limited
Source: The Hill
Rep. Adam Schiff (D-Calif.), the ranking member of the House Intelligence Committee, argued in a Sunday interview that President Trumps power to pardon is not unlimited, noting the president cannot pardon people in an effort to obstruct justice.
I dont think the presidents power is all as, that absolute, as people have been suggesting, Schiff told ABCs This Week.
The president cannot pardon people if its an effort to obstruct justice, if its an effort to prevent Bob Mueller, others, from learning about the presidents own conduct," he added, referencing special counsel Robert Mueller, who's investigating Russia's election interference.
Schiff said Trumps power to pardon has limits, a comment which comes after CNN reported Friday that the first charges in the probe were authorized by a federal grand jury.
If it were truly unlimited, it would have the effect of nullifying vast portions of the Constitution, Schiff added of Trumps power to pardon, which has become a concern as Muellers investigation continues.
Read more: http://thehill.com/homenews/house/357691-schiff-trump-cant-pardon-if-it-obstructs-justice
Wwcd
(6,288 posts)Thanks
delisen
(6,043 posts)This is where political will counts.
There was not sufficient political will in 1992 when GHW Bush pardoned the Iran-contra actors including Casper Weinberger, whom many thought might implicate Bush himself when Weinberer came to trial.
The Republicans and Shawn Hannity made a hero out of Oliver North who was basically a criminal-he got off on a technicality.
I am beginning to think of the Republican Party as a quasi-criminal enterprise.
Bernardo de La Paz
(49,002 posts)Towlie
(5,324 posts)Bernardo de La Paz
(49,002 posts)Let me google that for you:
5th pardon
Second hit (10 legal experts):
https://www.vox.com/2017/8/29/16211784/donald-trump-pardon-constitution-michael-flynn-manafort
Third hit (Constitutional scholar):
https://www.quora.com/Would-a-full-presidential-pardon-void-an-individuals-5th-amendment-protection-from-self-incrimination-on-actions-cover-by-the-pardon
But that jeopardy is the key. You cannot be compelled to put yourself at risk. Remove the risk, and you CAN be compelled to testify.
Gosh, could you have done that for your self?
Towlie
(5,324 posts)If readers already knew what you wrote then your post was pointless. Why tell people what they already know?
If readers didn't know it then it's unreasonable to expect them to take your word without references.
Lesson: Don't be like Trump, back up your assertions, don't just make unsubstantiated claims and expect people to believe them.
Bernardo de La Paz
(49,002 posts)cstanleytech
(26,291 posts)but it would also in effect force them to provide testimony with no 5th amendment right to refuse and if they lie under oath they can still be charged with perjury plus potential accessory charges to what they lied about since it would technically be a new crime that took place after the pardon?
Bernardo de La Paz
(49,002 posts)Plus tRump can't pardon the perjury or contempt because that would be a prima facie case of Obstruction of Justice.
Further, a tRump pardon for perjury or contempt flowing from a previous pardon would most likely be rejected by the courts, per Schiff's reasoning in the OP.
ancianita
(36,058 posts)as obstruction of justice.
No one should be above the law, especially when a president whose unconstitutional actions in office have led to federal investigation.
It isn't naive or ignorant to want law and order to work this way in an eroding democracy.
murielm99
(30,741 posts)executive orders. He signs them, but they are meaningless. They cannot overturn laws. Judges can rule against them. They are for show, for his ignorant 30% base and for the media and their bothsiderism.
Crash2Parties
(6,017 posts)If Congress refused to act against him, he really can do whatever he wishes. And because no law is being changed the effect on the Constitution itself is negligible.
Except of course, that people will realize that the protections in our Constitution mean nothing to a corrupt party should it gain complete power. Still, not much we/they can do about it, is there?
ancianita
(36,058 posts)or not.
The laws are clear. We, through the FBI, can do something about it.
Ignorance of laws governing emoluments, obstruction of justice, trafficking with hostile foreign countries or lying under oath before Congress or the FBI is no excuse.
Ignorance is no excuse, either, for a do-nothing congress full of lawyers, who count on public ignorance of their looking the other way.
Protections of our Constitution and protecting the Constitution mean something to the FBI, every single member of which is under oath to protect and defend against corruptions.
Every FBI prosecutor who's taken the same oath as the president can indict those who've breached their oaths of office, along with their criminally corrupt employees, and even those in Congress (whose job is to monitor the executive branch) who are complicit in covering up their crimes by pretending ignorance.
BigmanPigman
(51,594 posts)also say on Friday that if anyone is pardoned then they can't take the 5th and that goes for Federal and State crimes. Even if some get out of trouble in DC they will still have to testify in NY if charges come from crimes committed there.
Calista241
(5,586 posts)Usually, pardons are for specific crimes. If a person is in legal jeopardy, whether it's from the Feds or a State, in relation to a crime not covered by the pardon, that person has the guaranteed right to seek the protection of the 5th amendment.
If a prosecutor believes a pardoned person has information related to an investigation, and it's related to the crimes for which the person is pardoned, then that person will be treated as a material witness, and their testimony can be compelled.
Now, getting them to tell you the whole truth, against their will and interest, is up to the prosecutor.
ancianita
(36,058 posts)Calista241
(5,586 posts)Yes, Trump can pardon people, but Schneiderman being involved means those people are still in legal jeopardy, technically.
Mueller could sit down to question a pardoned individual; but since Schneiderman has participated, at least to some degree, in the investigation, no judge would compel a witness to testify and give Mueller information that a state prosecutor could then use in a legal case against them.