There won't be a vote; which is good because there won't be enough votes in support (even from Democrats) so Trump would claim he was exonerated; and the the voters don't care enough about this to make the public messaging valuable.

We should just shut up and take it. Who the hell are we to complain...you forgot your #maga at the end by the way.

back the house. This president will not be convicted in the Senate even if impeached...can't get enough votes even if we win back Senate control in 18...thus impeachment is foolish and pointless. I am hoping for a resignation.

It triggers migraines and seizures.

Demsrule86, they are like flash bulbs going off and are at a minimum extremely annoying though I suspect they can trigger migraines (which I occasionally suffer from - largely triggered by flashing or really bright lights).

I second Maggiemayhems' wish.

posters on "Ignore". My visits to DU have become infinitely more comfortable since I did that to our small cadre of anti-semites about a year ago.

Go to My Account
Scroll down under Preferences to "User Signatures on on posts" and click "remove"
Under that, you can do the same with avatars.

I like all the graphics, but choice is good.

At the top right. Turn off signatures on posts.

I want to read all the posts in some threads, but I get SO WEARY of a penguin falling down, Godzilla cooking lunch, some freak swapping his eyeballs around - that I'll scroll them out of view just to avoid being drubbed by the damned GIFs! All this time, I'd just figured that I couldn't avoid them. Thanks again!

Now I know what I'm missing and don't miss it at all. Honestly, I would have been gone from DU years ago if forced to watch flashing doo-dads.

This is just symbolic -- just like the 89 votes (or whatever the hell it was) the House held on abolishing the ACA during Obama's time. But it served to galvanize the right-wings' base -- and probably led to Trump's election ultimately.

Symbolism has a purpose, however, futile its goal might immediately be.

voters to the polls by citing impeachment.

and the world is at risk won't get our side out?! Come on ...

talk and that is foolish.

an "either or" proposition.

We can do both.

polls..."vote in 18 because if Dems take the House...why impeachment follows!" Now tell me why this is a good idea when we get nothing for our efforts but the possibility of losing elections in 18 if a motivated GOP base shows up.

to the polls.

We won the popular vote.

Their base is a minority of addled hateheads, and I could care less what they think.

The danger is giving the GOP a way to demonize us and win in 18...and for what? Nothing...we get nothing.

convicted in the Senate (removed from office). We don't have the votes in the Senate or the House at the moment...and even if we get the house back which is tough with a gerrymander but doable, we won't have the votes in the Senate. It is not mathematically possible.

So if there is no chance of removal explain why impeachment is a good idea ? I just don't see it. And with a gerrymander in place, we
need big wins to take back the house...revving up the GOP base with impeachment and no chance of removal seems like it might hurt us in 18 and help Trump to continue his efforts to destroy this country.

Trump should go to jail really.

So we should work our asses off for 18...if we get the House we shut the bastard down...if we get the Senate as well no more judges for Donnie Two Scoops...way more likely we an do that than have a successful impeachment that leads to removal.

This graduate student thing in the tax plan has made some who whined about Hillary last year sit up and say 'what the fuck'...I don't think they will fall for Stein BS next time.

Symbolism doesn't deny action. It's irrational to believe it does.

It is foolish to do that for a big fat nothing...we gain nothing.

We have a definite problem among Dem Congressmen, and I am appalled they are not signing onto document that has allowed the Tramp to undermine our democracy. OUR DEMOCRACY!!!

The way to handle this, and people like traitor Pelosi (who refused to impeach war criminal Bush inc.) is to contact your representatives and any other representatives and let them know they will Positively NOT get our vote if their signature isn't on this document.

However, this should be done every freaking day to put pressure on the repubs who can do something about this. Call them out day after day for putting party over country.

EVERY DAY on the record.


Every day.

The other 70% of us need this fucker gone to save our country.

For us to sit back and stay quiet is absolute bullshit.

rev up their base. Don't kid yourself, this could hurt us...and if it had a shot, I would say do it...but it doesn't...and let me just say...even if we win in 18 we won't get enough Senators to convict Trump. If he can not be convicted, then don't impeach which angers voters. The entire thing is pointless...I hope for a forced resignation.

Give it up...

we cannot stay quiet in any way shape or form.

routinely to ignore the galvanizing effect this symbolic gesture can provide against Trump/Trumpism.

It strikes me that too often we Democrats let pragmatism/realism get in the way of taking actions that are largely just symbolic but have the effect of appealing to and engaging our own base. It's exactly this sort of repetitive action by the right-wing that led to 45.

And it will both cheapen the actual process of impeachment and enrage the Republican base, which will rally against the petty Democrats who have nothing better to do than waste time on meaningless gestures.

This is different from the GOP's nonstop efforts to destroy the ACA, because they actually have a chance of succeeding, so their base is gratified by the GOP's persistent efforts despite Democratic obstructionism.

But go-nowhere articles of impeachment? Meh.

I'd pretend the symbolism is meaningless as well... though the very definition of symbolism is predicated on meaning.

But we all like to maintain the pretense of wit and wisdom.

This said, it’s 2017 and a year is plenty of time to do more irreversible damage.

Last edited Wed Nov 15, 2017, 10:40 PM - Edit history (1)

Because down the road a ways as things really get heated they will be saying (why Didn't they ) and you know the rest.

This recalls Father Robert Drinan who, as a Massachusetts congressman at the time, introduced articles of impeachment against Nixon in July 1973.

It failed the first time in committee; but Tip O'Neill, then Majority Leader, had to talk him out of trying again, reminding him of exactly what you just mentioned: that the votes just weren't there, even among Democrats, at that early stage of Watergate.

Timing is everything.

The Dems should be coming up with policies to win in '18. Being anti-Trump is not going to be enough

I agree that it won't go anywhere but it changes the narrative.
Tom Steyer's TV spots calling for impeachment aren't meaningless either, it reminds people what a terrible person we have as president. I'm sick of the M$M covering for the idiot we have as president, we should be demanding his impeachment every day, he has done more to deserve impeachment than others who have been impeached. File for impeachment every month. Plus it has the added benefit of showing Trump that a lot of people don't like him, that's something hard to swallow for a Narcissist.

increase the vote by warning of impeachment if they don't support Republicans...very stupid thing to do.

bemoan about our party. The "we better not" mentality out of fear it may backfire, meanwhile the Rs say, "hell yeah, let's stick it to 'em" and therefore hold 89 or whatever it was House votes to repeal the ACA during Obama's watch and umpteen Benghazi hearings.

We point to ourselves and say, "we're better than that", we rise above that", "we aren't going to sink to their level" (which morally, intellectually and in our individual daily lives is admirable) and act like adults, meanwhile the righties take over the country playing that game exactly.

Perhaps we need to learn something here.

The question here isn't just "what will be the outcome right now." The question also is: "should Trump be impeached?" Leadership may be expressed as taking a position and changing the conversation. If even 40% of the country was solidly united in the belief that Trump must be impeached, that would be without precedent.

Not sure about precedent setting (what were the polls in 19733/74 re Nixon?) But it is actually upwards of 40% is it not? Closer to 50% is what I recall from polls at the end of October.

GOP base by bringing impeachment to the floor when we don't have a snowball's chance in hell of actually doing it. I prefer winning to meaningless gestures.

was brought up for a vote while Obama was still in the White House?

We mocked it then for being a sign of desperation, not to mention a waste of taxpayer dollars.

We know that it won't happen while there is a GOP majority in the House. There must be an actual case for criminal accusations first.

Otherwise, it's just another "Benghazi" exercise....

after

all of that repeal and replace talk worked, it controlled the narrative that Obamacare was terrible, that narrative still holds to this day. Did you not see that the people who were yelling repeal and replace have attached a rider to their tax bill that will basically kill Obamacare.

Thank you!

and I think we will outnumber them.

Sometimes I gotta wonder whether Dems are really Dems?

And anyone who blocks it will be shown to not care about the destruction of our country and Constitution.

Most Republicans think Trump is a nut, but only a few are brave enough to admit it.

It may get quite a bit further - esp if we all VOTE DEM and can get BOTH houses. Then, the SHitler will be OUT/impeached.

I don't think it's a waste of time at all.

(With a consenting adult) but defends paedophilia with Moore ...

The world is upside down

And history will record the reaction of the Republicans too. And they will suffer the consequences of inaction in due course.

"Meanwhile, WTF is my giganormous tax cut?" says every billionaire.

And some we will never see, the highly classified stuff that would reveal sources and methods.

That places this in a different context, they are doing this from a far more informed perspective, one we won't have for a while of may never fully appreciate.

It may be totally ineffective right now, but someday in the future, if things go badly, these four will be looked on favorably and those who did not act will be vilified.

Who gives a shit how Trump followers will react...

The country knows exactly where this is coming from.

All articles are warranted. Let the Russians, I mean the Republicans vote against the rule of law.

in this bid to impeach, this is what the constitution stands for. To do otherwise and not introduce articles of impeachment would be a violation of their oaths of office.

Which, I might add is likewise a violation for every member of congress who doesn't sign on.

Politics be damned. What is right is right.

attacks by their Russian government friends...the midterms coming America needs secure VOTING! and secure American computers.

Sessions just casually answered he hasn't looked into it for the 3rd or 4th time.

It's almost criminal for the attorney general not to look into it when all 17 intelligence agencies confirm the Russians interfered.

On top of that most government officials, campaign people are/were very computer ignorant.

The last thing we need to do is be gentleman/womanly and diplomatic about this. Jesus! here has that gotten us thus far? Who holds the WH, Senate, House, Supreme Court and most State Governorships and legislatures?!!!!!! How did they do that? NOT BY BEING FUCKING Gentlemen/Women!

be up to his eyeballs in Russiagate, what he knew, what he tried to hide, etc. Stand by!

How are fact based articles of impeachment meaningless? Did whoever said it was meaningless read it?

I don't recall Republicans debating the "meaning" of Clinton's ridiculous articles, for which he was charged for lying about a consensual sex act - that charge was as "meaningless" as it gets from a criminal and national security standpoint.

Pelosi (or some other democratic head) previously asked that articles not be presented. Maybe the dems know more than we know, based on information from committee work, and this is a necessary first step to get the momentum rolling?

How can a poster compare a reasonable push for impeachment with a stupid cry for repeal and replace?

If we are going to lose I say we lose fighting, to the max. At least our side has the truth fighting with us, screw the people who want to vote for lies.

If nothing else, it might make dt sweat a little. As for his followers, who cares? They're deaf, dumb, and blind when it comes to him and nothing will change their majority's opinion.

for that time in the future when they'll need to muster support for some other crime or misdemeanor committed by the DOTUS.

No wonder why Democrats in DC are seen as weak and spineless. For all his faults, Bernie demonstrated the passion that Democratic voters have been looking for from party leadership.

Doing the right thing. Standing for the Constitution. Standing for Democracy. I like it!

by composer Robert S. Mueller III.

They played this little tune for dramatic effect, as we wait for the orchestra to finish tuning for the Big Show.

for betraying America and American democracy. Shameful.

If you strike at the king you must "kill"the king (read: thoroughly defeat and/or imprison).

If you fail at the first attempt, you're historically screwed.

This is meaningless symbolism, as someone above said. Should've waited until we had a case with zero escape routes.

They know that the actual impeachment can not start until the Dems control the House and can not succeed until they control 2/3 of the Senate.

This is designed to make Americans crave impeachment. They are now picturing it, savoring it---and the Dems have promised that, if elected to majorities in both Houses---Americans will get it.

Brilliant move!

If it fails, that's it. Trump is locked in indefinitely.

Sadly you can't decide to impeach based on what's right for the country.
You have to decide based on what will be the least damaging for each Republican's chances of re-election.

As long as a vote to convict will turn conservative voters against their senators it's a waste of time to call for impeachment.
The bulk of conservative voters have to want him impeached or the attempt will fail.

Successful impeachment, even after the 2018 election, is unlikely because 20 or so Republicans will have to vote along with Democrats and it will be political suicide for them if they vote to convict and it fails.
It could be suicide if it succeeds also.

...than with actual political progress. And I do not mean returning to the the status quo, where dems and repubs go back to playing the same game that got us here. I am convinced that the dems would rather lose elections than actually be progressive

Only radical resistance holds any hope of real progress. The dems are squandering a historical moment that we cannot afford to miss. They should be organizing maasive protests and education. Not just against trump and co. but against the status quo that got is here. That they're not doing that should come as no surprise to anyone actually paying attention.

The dems are perceived by many as just as bad as the repubs. I think clinton actually won the election but it should never have been close enough to steal. But part of what got us trump was the anti- clinton vote.

It is absolutely telling that we have an actual russian agent in the white house and in congress and neither we nor our representatives can do anything about it.

Link to tweet

This is a winning platform for Democrats. One thing Americans can agree on----Trump has got to go.

grandstanding, and everyone of them know that it will go no where.

It will have impact when the Mueller report and conclusions are done.