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Sen. Walter Sobchak

(8,692 posts)
Thu Dec 14, 2017, 01:39 PM Dec 2017

Delta Chooses Airbus Over Boeing in $12.7 Billion Jet Deal

Source: Bloomberg

Delta Air Lines Inc. ordered 100 of Airbus SE’s A321neo jetliners, a deal with a list value of $12.7 billion, in a major victory for the European planemaker over Boeing Co. Deliveries of the single-aisle planes will begin in early 2020 and the transaction includes options for an additional 100 aircraft, Delta said in a statement Thursday. The airline’s decision dealt a setback to Boeing’s efforts to sell its newest 737 model, the Max 10.

The A321neo is “the best narrow-body product in the sky,” Delta Chief Executive Officer Ed Bastian said in a presentation to investors.

Delta is turning to Airbus to overhaul its short-range fleet three years after placing an order of long-haul jetliners with the European planemaker. In recent months, the No. 2 U.S. airline has been battling Boeing in a trade dispute involving a separate plane, Bombardier Inc.’s C Series. The U.S. manufacturer persuaded the Commerce Department to slap 300 percent duties on the new Canadian jet, contending that Bombardier sold it to Delta at well below cost.

(Snip)

The A321neos will replace Delta’s 1990s-vintage McDonnell Douglas MD-90 jets, as well as aging Boeing 757 and Airbus A320 aircraft. Delta is expected to use the new planes for domestic flights and shorter international routes. The carrier will outfit Airbus’ longest narrow-body jet with seating for 197 people, including 20 in first class. The carrier already started refreshing its long-range international fleet in late 2014, selecting 50 Airbus wide-body planes in a deal valued at $14 billion based on list prices.

Read more: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-12-14/delta-chooses-airbus-over-boeing-in-12-7-billion-jetliner-deal



Boeing gets their second lesson in less than a week that being adversarial to your customers is a great way to lose business. The Royal Canadian Air Force cancelled an order for F-18 Hornets earlier this week in retaliation for Boeing's trade complaint against Bombardier that is mentioned in this article.
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Delta Chooses Airbus Over Boeing in $12.7 Billion Jet Deal (Original Post) Sen. Walter Sobchak Dec 2017 OP
And I believe Boeing deliberately chose SC (anti-union) as a locale for a big operation there. CurtEastPoint Dec 2017 #1
Boeing's history in South Carolina is complicated Sen. Walter Sobchak Dec 2017 #3
The only thing I have against Airbus is the "barking dog." Pope George Ringo II Dec 2017 #2
Good (NT) matt819 Dec 2017 #4
They're too good to buy American? Blue_Tires Dec 2017 #5
Euro planes were simply a better fit. And Euro nations often buy Boeing's planes. Trade laws. Fred Sanders Dec 2017 #7
Airbus has an assembly line in Mobile Alabama Sen. Walter Sobchak Dec 2017 #10
If the RCAF aren't getting Super Hornets what are they going to fly? Blue_Tires Dec 2017 #6
They're buying used Australian F-18s to replace attrition for the moment Sen. Walter Sobchak Dec 2017 #11
I think the Gripen is a little cheaper then the Super Hornet EX500rider Dec 2017 #12
Considering its geography and patrol routes Pope George Ringo II Dec 2017 #13
Northern Canada is a lousy place to eject Sen. Walter Sobchak Dec 2017 #14
Did tRump negotiate this deal? KY_EnviroGuy Dec 2017 #8
The Airbus "Barking Dog".....i.e. the power transfer unit (PTU) pdxflyboy Dec 2017 #9
 

Sen. Walter Sobchak

(8,692 posts)
3. Boeing's history in South Carolina is complicated
Thu Dec 14, 2017, 01:46 PM
Dec 2017

Boeing came to South Carolina by way of bailing out a ineffectual outsourcing partner.

Pope George Ringo II

(1,896 posts)
2. The only thing I have against Airbus is the "barking dog."
Thu Dec 14, 2017, 01:42 PM
Dec 2017

I'm at least as happy in one as in a Boeing. And Boeing has begun to annoy me.

Fred Sanders

(23,946 posts)
7. Euro planes were simply a better fit. And Euro nations often buy Boeing's planes. Trade laws.
Thu Dec 14, 2017, 02:08 PM
Dec 2017

And Delta not pleased with Boeing complaining about Canada, whose jets they had bought. Also Delta bought same Euro jets 3 years ago.

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
6. If the RCAF aren't getting Super Hornets what are they going to fly?
Thu Dec 14, 2017, 02:06 PM
Dec 2017

Because they aren't exactly swimming in loose cash, and options like the Rafale, Typhoon and Gripen C are even more expensive, iirc

 

Sen. Walter Sobchak

(8,692 posts)
11. They're buying used Australian F-18s to replace attrition for the moment
Thu Dec 14, 2017, 03:01 PM
Dec 2017

They will probably end-up with the Super Hornet eventually, but Boeing has to back down on the Bombardier trade dispute first.

Canada is also in the market for heavy-lift helicopters, tankers and maritime patrol planes and the Bombardier-Airbus transaction will render the dispute moot. They just need to find a way to save face.

EX500rider

(10,849 posts)
12. I think the Gripen is a little cheaper then the Super Hornet
Thu Dec 14, 2017, 03:57 PM
Dec 2017

F/A-18E/F Unit cost-US$70.5 million

Unit cost-US$ 30–60 million for JAS 39C

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_F/A-18E/F_Super_Hornet

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saab_JAS_39_Gripen

I believe the Gripen has a much lower cost per hour of flight also.

The JAS-39 Gripen entered active service in 1997. It is a14 ton jet roughly comparable to the latest versions of the F-16. The Gripen is small but can carry up to 3.6 tons of weapons. With the increasing use of smart bombs, this is adequate. Often regarded as an also-ran in the current crop of "modern jet fighters", the Gripen is proving to be more competition than the major players (the F-16, F-18, F-35, Eurofighter, Rafale, MiG-29, and Su-27) expected. Put simply, Gripen does a lot of little (but important) things right and costs about half as much (at about $35 million each) as its major competitors. More importantly, Gripen also costs about half as much, per flight hour, to operate (compared to bigger twin engine aircraft). In effect, Gripen provides the ruggedness and low cost of Russian aircraft with the high quality and reliability of Western aircraft. For many nations this is an appealing combination. The Gripen is easy to use (both for pilots and ground crews) and capable of doing all jet fighter jobs (air defense, ground support, and reconnaissance) well enough.

https://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htairfo/20170504.aspx

Pope George Ringo II

(1,896 posts)
13. Considering its geography and patrol routes
Thu Dec 14, 2017, 04:47 PM
Dec 2017

I'm told Canada is more than normally impressed by the F-18's ability to fly after losing one engine, too. That seems to be a big thing for them to get past, regardless of the qualifications of the alternatives.

 

Sen. Walter Sobchak

(8,692 posts)
14. Northern Canada is a lousy place to eject
Thu Dec 14, 2017, 05:15 PM
Dec 2017

It could be hours before SAR reaches a downed pilot.

Back during the Cold War Canada operated single-engine aircraft in Europe but always operated twin-engine aircraft in the arctic.

Until you have flown over the top in daylight it is hard to comprehend just how remote it is.

KY_EnviroGuy

(14,492 posts)
8. Did tRump negotiate this deal?
Thu Dec 14, 2017, 02:12 PM
Dec 2017

After all, he's the best damn deal maker in the whole world!



If he did, he failed bigly.

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