No Dem incumbent should be afraid of next year's elections. The fact that multiple Dem senators are running scared of this stance only invites primary challenges from the left.

are not careful. Losing elections is what got us here in the first place...those who voted to 'teach Democrats a lesson' got us here. Personally I love voting for Democrats and despise Republicans.

if that loses elections we are screwed anyway.

Who face deportation. I’m sure they give zero fucks about your opinion.

When they've been the only party defending them.

And we are not the party in control here, and any compromise made whatsoever will make some group very angry.

And you think that stamping your foot and "never voting again for Democrats" will make things better for those kids?

I think that those who will suffer even more if Republicans win in 2018 will give zero fucks about your foot stamping.

Democrats were not supported...some who called themselves progressives...threw Dreamers under the bus...I fought against it... but maybe those who voted for Stein, Trump or no one should have ignored the emails during the General and voted for the only one who could stop this(Hillary Clinton). Blaming Democrats who lost the election because voters fell for the bullshit that both parties are the same is wrong ...They are not at fault...those who didn't vote for them are at fault...and sometimes you can't make it work. We have been fortunate thus far, but elections have consequences and blowing our chances in 18 hurts more than it helps anyone.

I voted for Clinton. democratic politics think republicans will play nice. They are naive and spineless and most of them think about their jobs more than their constituents.

Hillary Clinton...as did some Latino voters who didn't vote for Hillary. You want Dem policies...you have to elect them and provide them with a majority.

Please clarify.

you mean that they hate doing it all the time?

Can you provide some data or back up on this population, or is it a guess?

But quantifying your claims is part of the evidence-based world I live in.

I take it that this nebulous number of people who "hate to vote Democrat" who aren't republicans and how often this happens is something you "intuit," and can't support.

So you try to change your claim to "people who see no difference between the two parties."

Got it.



You may want to read some Alinksy. (directly below)

I would hate to inflict such insufferable conversation on them.

There are plenty of people in this country who do not like voting Dem because they see no difference between the two parties. Sometimes they do not vote. Sometimes they vote third party. Sometimes they vote Republican. Sometimes they vote for the Democrat. Regardless, they often do not have a reason to vote for someone. It is appalling to see the lack of courage by incumbent Democratic senators to do the right thing for children, teenagers and young people who are working their asses off to be good Americans. The senators face an extraordinarily pro-Democrat election environment next year so there should be no hesitation in doing the right thing and giving some of these unaffiliated and hesitant/unwilling to vote Dem citizens to side with us.

Apparently, being pedantic is more useful of some people’s time than calling out bad behavior from elected Dems.

I would hate to inflict such insufferable conversation on them.

"There are plenty of people in this country who do not like voting Dem because they see no difference between the two parties."

But you can't tell me how many or why. You can't tell me how many actually vote the way you claim they do. It's an idea you have.

" It is appalling to see the lack of courage by incumbent Democratic senators to do the right thing for children, teenagers and young people who are working their asses off to be good Americans."

Please tell me again what it is that Democratic Senators are doing that shows "lack of courage." Delaying, not cancelling, a vote to avert a government shutdown that the GOP is ITCHING for to use against them like Dems did to the GOP in the '90's?

"But in the weeks since, both leaders have amended their wish list and are now also pushing to use the looming spending showdown to reauthorize the State Children’s Health Insurance Program and devote more federal funding to cash-strapped pensions and programs targeting ­opioid abuse."

Look those people in the eye, and tell them that their health and well being isn't worth it. Because in the real world, there is rarely "all or nothing," and the sooner you learn that, the better off you will be. Yes, there are choices they made, between bad and worse, because that's the way things are right now, and saying that it's not the way things are right now shows a lack of understanding of legislation and math when it comes to who has the upper hand in DACA.

"The senators face an extraordinarily pro-Democrat election environment next year so there should be no hesitation in doing the right thing and giving some of these unaffiliated and hesitant/unwilling to vote Dem citizens to side with us. "

Are you aware of gerrymandering? Voter suppression? You think that a government shutdown that will affect primarily the most vulnerable citizens - on Medicaid, Social Security, etc is going to overcome that to give Dems a victory? In this universe?

What is it exactly that you claim will get this population you have identified, but not really quantified, to suddenly think that there is no difference between the parties, and/or hates to vote Democrat - and before you type - remember, if enacting DACA wasn't something that made them think Democrats were different than Republicans, why do you think that anything Democrats do or don't do concerning DACA will change that?

Apparently, bashing Democrats is more useful of some people’s time than actually doing the research behind their claims.

Doing the right thing is what matters, not quantifying it. These Dem senators have caved to racist Republicans instead of upholding ideals that are central to being a Democrat. You can be a sell out if you wish. Some of us expect elected Democrats to stand up for the principles of the Democratic Party. These senators are not doing that.

What do you mean "1 or 100 million?" Not sure what you're referring to.

And if you have the option to "do the right thing" by one of two groups, and you simply refuse to do anything, and the government shuts down, how is that not "caving?"

Yes, standing up for principles also involves keeping the government open so that social security checks go out, and CHIP stays funded.

"That's a complex question that's not amenable to a simple answer. There's a whole lot of things that are not resolved right now. Republicans control the whole government -- House, Senate and White House. We are what, 69, 70 days past CHIP authorization. I've got folks pressing every day on wildfire relief, Virgin Islands, Puerto Rico ... CHIP and Dreamers," said Sen. Chris Coons of Deleware, a Democrat. "I think we ought to be able to fix all of that, and if it takes another week or two to resolve all of those, I think folks will forgive us. But I don't think we should go home or close out the year without a clear path to resolving it."


As much as I would love to wave my wand and say that digging in your heels always gets you what you want, I learned that's not the way the world works when I was four years old, and I certainly know that sometimes digging at the wrong time will cost you all your principles.

You can hold on to that misconception that if Dems hold our breath and stomp our feet, the GOP will just say, "All right, you get what you want, all of it, and we won't let the government shut down." And you can shake your finger at the Dems very, very hard, and be mad when they do what they can with what they have, and have a tantrum, but that doesn't make you any different than those people you talk about that don't vote.

Perfectionism/dualistic thinking will take it's toll on you. You should really take a look at that in yourself.

As always...you seem to want to blame Democrats for everything.

By relinquishing on demands that a DACA fix be included with the must-pass budget legislation, Dems are effectively letting Republicans decide when the issue will receive a vote - which is never. Dems have given away their leverage on this issue.

It’s surprising to me how many DUers do not understand the legislative hardball played by Republicans when they are in the majority.

The Democrats have very little leverage.

They have not given up DACA, they have simply not made repealing it a priority card for this bill.

If they demand repeal, and the government shuts down - who do you think gets hurt? Well, clearly not you.

If they use CHIP refunding (which will run out much sooner than DACA does) and keep the government open, then that would be a good thing, would it not? DACA has more time than CHIP.

If the government shuts down, the CHIP kids are screwed in January, and DACA is no more safe than it is now.

Of course if you think that the GOP will just say, "Well, OK, you can have DACA and we won't shut the goverment down" you don't understand the GOP.

Is that clearer?

Deadlines for anything but must-pass legislation do not matter. Republicans only care about their items (Tax Scam) and the budget CR or bill, whichever route they prefer. The Republicans have already proven they do not give a damn about CHIP as it expired months ago and they have done nothing. They care less about foreign born DREAMers than about American born children so if they are willing to ignore CHIP, they will certainly ignore a DACA or DREAM fix.

Now that Democrats are essentially giving up on the DACA/DREAM fix by punting it, what do we even stand for as a party? Every DUer and Democrat in America should be ashamed of the cowardice of these Democratic senators. If our elected officials in DC won’t fight for our values, families, friends and neighbors, then why are we electing them in the first place?

Why do you think that the GOP will accept codifying DACA to avoid a government shut down? Really? They have a boner for a shutdown on this - they can play it as "Dems shut down government over letting kids of illegals take your kid's spot at college."

And why do you think that if they will ignore CHIP, that they will hand DACA over to the Dems on a silver platter?

Throwing sick kids under the bus will have an impact on the GOP from their voters in a very different way than kids of undocumented immigrants. The Dems know this, and it was a good choice for them to move this front and center. Dems can spin it as "GOP shuts down government because they don't want sick kids to go to a doctor."

If you think that the choice between helping sick kids now, with the possibility of working on DACA (which you say is hopeless anyway, right?) down the road is "selling out" you are not making any sense.

You seem to just want to bash Democrats.

Dems must be willing to fight for both CHIP and DACA. Whether Republicans allow either to pass is out of our control. However, we must fight for both and not simply quit like the Dems did on DACA.

Maybe you prefer spineless Democrats who will not fight for the party’s values. I am not one of those people willing to shut my mouth when our party screws over a core constituency and that is what those Democratic Senators did here. What other values and people are you acceptable with elected Dems tossing aside? Where do you draw the line? Or do you prefer it when it Dems roll over for Republicans?

Perhaps you can 'splain me where that is, since your "comprehension" seems to be so superior, despite a real lack of understanding of what "majority" means.

And your comprehension is off (whatever that means) concerning the priorities the GOP has - because no, kids of undocumented workers and sick kids of citizens are not on the same par, in any way shape or form... That's called an "if/then" fallacy. Look it up.

I prefer legislators who understand what they can do, rather than promise what they can't deliver to those unfamiliar with math, no matter how much someone yells "SELL OUTS!!!" on discussion boards. and accuse them of "screwing over" constituents when they are not.

Proceed.

By demanding CHIP and DACA fixes be included on the must pass budget bill, the Dems are forcing a vote and getting everyone on record. That is as much as they can do. They cannot guarantee either passes but at least they can vote on them.

By punting, they eliminate the ability to vote on either issue because Republicans will never bring them up for a vote on their own. Evidently that’s perfectly fine for you because you live in a fantasy world where Dems can bring up any issue for a vote at any time. For those of us in reality, these votes will not happen until January 2019 at the earliest.

Let me ask again, where do you draw the line when it comes to elected Democrats not fighting for the people and issues that are important to our party?

By saying that they will not demand DACA be a part of the bill, Dems avoid being blamed for all the suffering that results from shutting down the government over Dems wanting to give something to undocumented immigrants - DACA kids. And tell me - how does that help DACA kids? You think that's going to win them any love from GOP constituents? Think about it.

By making CHIP a must, the GOP risks being accused, by Dems, of all the suffering that results from shutting down the government over not wanting sick American kids to have health care. That is leverage. CHIP, again, is more time sensitive.

The threat of a government shutdown is our only leverage. And yes, we need to hand the GOP something that they can say they won. And not including codifying DACA **in this bill at this time*** is something they can claim. And, if as you keep saying, the GOP will never ever approve it what is lost? NOTHING.

Are you still with me? Good.

At this point in time, it doesn't really much matter where I draw the line on anything. It is not in my hands. I don't have delusions of grandeur that I have that kind of power. I don't need personal validation from the Dems, I need them to get shit done, and I think they are working towards it. I don't need them to check in with me every 10 minutes, especially if I'm not their constituent.

People with the upper hand, like the GOP in this situation, don't give in unless they have something to lose, or they have something to gain. That's the reasoning behind sanctions. You know what those are, right? All the clueless conservative voters who whined and screamed about us "ending sanctions" on Iraq when they met their part of the bargain. They needed to have something to gain by doing what we want.

If we had simply said, "We are cutting you off, we don't deal with evil governments" they would have had nothing to lose by continuing their nuclear program. It seems like we caved, but we didn't. We used sanctions as leverage against someone who had the power to start a nuclear war.

Are you beginning to see what negotiation is? As opposed to just handing a list of demands to someone who has the power to say "fuck you, we can make this shutdown look like it was because you care about immigrants more than Americans, and we need to show our base that we got as much accomplished as possible," we counter offer. And that means saying, "We won't demand a concession on DACA *at this point,* and you can make that look like it's some victory for your constituents. But CHIP is non-negotiable, and you are going to have a very hard time explaining that one to your constituents." And that definitely goes with the Democratic principle of HEALTH CARE for all.

Is that clearer?

You're welcome.

I have given up on getting an explanation from you on how the Dems can actually accomplish something, while making you personally feel validated.

You have been operating under the assumption that a shutdown would occur if DACA was included in the budget bill. This is pure speculation on your part, based on absolutely no quantifiable data as you prefer, even more so when you add in the public blaming Democrats for this hypothetical shutdown. There is nothing in this political climate of Republicans being in charge of the entire government that supports that premise. Sure, Republicans may try but it’s not a winning or viable stance for them and they know that given the massive public support for a DACA fix and presumably even higher support for CHIP.

The must-pass budget bill was always going to pass. There was never going to be a shutdown because Dems and enough CHIP and DACA supporting Republicans would join with anti-shutdown Republicans to pass it. Now without CHIP or DACA, Dems can and should bail and let Republicans decide the budget bill’s fate. However that comes with a price - CHIP and DACA will never see the light of day in this Republican Senate.

I want the Democrats in the Senate to fight for the party’s principles, win or lose. You are content with them giving up and not fighting for the party at all. I prefer action. You prefer fear.

Not a sign of critical thought.

You prefer to lecture, when you need some serious educating.

But, like many, you fear anything that will conflict with confirmation bias.

You prefer to remain in the dark, and stick your fingers in your ears.

I hope that someday you'll actually be at home in your skin, but I fear that won't happen.

I hope someday you'll stop projecting your own fears and inadequacies on elected officials and accept responsibility for your own shortcomings.

"Punted?"

"Congressional Democrats implored Republicans Wednesday to pass new funding for CHIP before the Christmas break."

Susan Collins:

“We have asked Senator McConnell not to offer this week our legislation,” the senators, who are sponsoring a bill that provides funding intended to stabilize the individual insurance market, said in a statement. “Instead, we will offer it after the first of the year when the Senate will consider the omnibus spending bill, the Children’s Health Insurance Program reauthorization, funding for Community Health Centers, and other legislation that was to have been enacted this week.”

But hey, if one needs Dem leaders as scapegoats for their fear, anxiety and anger, who needs facts? You might as well be watching FoxNews.

But you're welcome anyway...

Actually no, not "lifeless." It turns out CHIP is indeed something that the GOP conceded is important enough not to "ignore."

Here's the quantifiable data on that.

"You really do not understand, do you?"

It appears a height of irony you're the one asking that, your dramatics and multitude of unsupported allegations aside.

that project their own fears and inadequacies on politicians and Democrats.

Some self-examination is warranted, but unlikely.

What exactly do you stand for if you so readily dismiss Democratic cowardice for not standing up for DREAMers? Do you even support anything in the party's platform or are you just a Republican troublemaker? Do you need to be screwed over personally by Democratic inaction before you give a damn? If there is anyone needs to perform some self-examination, it is you and anyone else who has written off DREAMers for bullshit fears and ignorance of how Republicans legislate.

"Our belief is that if this matter is not resolved this week — and it's not likely to be resolved — that come the omnibus and the caps, that we have another chance to finally come up with a bipartisan package of things to include" by mid-January, said Sen. Dick Durbin (D-Ill.), who also attended the meeting. "The closer we get [to the March deadline], the more nervous I get, not to mention the way these young people feel. I'm sorry that it's taken this long."

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/12/19/senate-white-house-trump-lay-groundwork-for-daca-deal-306298

From someone who screeches that the GOP will NEVER agree to keep DACA, but blames Democrats for acting as such.

Refuses to answer that particular sticky wicket, and tries to avoid it with condescension and pontificating.

"Congressional Democrats implored Republicans Wednesday to pass new funding for CHIP before the Christmas break."

“We have asked Senator McConnell not to offer this week our legislation,” the senators, who are sponsoring a bill that provides funding intended to stabilize the individual insurance market, said in a statement. “Instead, we will offer it after the first of the year when the Senate will consider the omnibus spending bill, the Children’s Health Insurance Program reauthorization, funding for Community Health Centers, and other legislation that was to have been enacted this week.”

But hey, if one needs Dems as receptacles for their fear and anger, who needs facts?

You go right and keep wishing and hoping that Republicans will allow that vote to happen. I look forward to unloading the "I told you so" reminder when it nothing ever happens.

It's a pity you are more angry at Democrats expecting elected Democrats to stand up for the party than you are those elected Democrats who fail to stand up for the party.

Not that there is a chance that you will read this any of the times that I have posted it...

But it's a pity that you need to be furious at Democratic leaders so much that you ignore what they are doing that shows your accusations of inaction and worse of them inaccurate.

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/12/19/senate-white-house-trump-lay-groundwork-for-daca-deal-306298

their 'help'...don't forget the Russian trolls.

do not enable the fascists by working with them.

Fascist or no - they have the majority. We can deal for what we can get, or get locked out.

And before you blast off - I said deal, not capitulate. I recall Bernie Sanders saying he would work with DT on raising the minimum wage.

Was that "enabling fascism?"

That kind of "fuck you if I don't get what I want" is the kind of thing that will get us a government shut down, and that's going to hurt a whole lot more people, doncha think?

Do you really believe that DT has a serious interest in raising the minimum wage? Does Bernie Sanders, really think that DT will ever broach the topic?

No that wasn't enabling fascism, that is often called delusional thinking or just bullshit talking!!!

the GOP while others are called "sell outs" for working with the tools they have to prevent a government shut down.

helped the fascists, I say no compromise, shut it down!!!

Why?

Do you dislike people who get military disability benefits and pensions who won't get those for the duration?

Do you dislike non-essential government employees who could be furloughed without pay?

Do you dislike food assistance applicants who won't get their paperwork processed?

Do you dislike new Medicare and Medicaid applicants who won't get their paperwork processed?

Do you dislike the research that is going on at the FDA and NIH that goes down the drain when the scientists lose access to their ongoing experiments, and the maintenance that their specimens require?

Do you dislike people applying for an FHA loan?

Do you dislike our national parks being maintained?

If you still want to "shut it down!!!" after reading this - you may have some real privilege that you need to check.

and send this country into another great depression quicker, we are heading for a revolution anyway so lets get it over with and do away with fascists once and for all.

Wow, the "burn it down" hyper privileged thinking is strong in you. Some revolutionary you are.

I'm betting white, straight male privilege. White straight males always suffer less than everyone else when civilization takes a turn for the worse.

Sound like you're pretty young, too.

Anyone who advocates for violence usually is:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1017437100

What about them?

It helped that the actor playing Billy Jack (Tom Laughlin) was a real life bad ass!

Hey, I fantasize about slapping the shit out of Paul Ryan who is actively trying to kill me and my wife, and he admits it.

But I know violence will only play to their side. Their side are violent by nature because they are regressed assholes.

We have to be better, I thought. Oh well.

along with all the hyper macho shit that goes with it.

I thought that they had all gone over to JPR to bellyache about how nobody gives them the deference they feel they deserve.

Not all.

Wondering if Elmac went back there to tell everyone how he schooled us wimps.

"What can we do DIFFERENTLY from last year to make sure ANY democrat wins?"

But I know unconditional support of the party is VERY controversial here. Weird, eh.

and they'll vote Democratic forevermore.

Especially the immature white men.

But Susan Sarandon sure is hot, ain't she?

Keyboard commando? Arm Chair Warrior?

whining about where the Taco Bell is...

Revolutionary wannabees who don't get that revolutions don't happen in 4 years, at least not without bloodshed.

But pampered white boys don't think they'll be against the wall, just like they don't go to jail for things that people of color do.

Dad'll be there to bail them out, and mom will cook them dinner.

...will put down any such thing? What makes your cockamamie vision any different than the Bundys?

The US may have the most expensive military; however, we are 7th in size, based on total number of Active, Reserve and Paramilitary forces.

In order, the 1st 7 are

1. South Korea 8,134,500
2. North Korea 7,679,000
3. Vietnam 5,522,000
4. India 4,941,600
5. Russia 3,490,000
6. China 3,353,000
7. United States 2,227,200

For number of active forces, the US is 3rd per capita 1000 the US is 67th (Total Forces) and 51st (Active forces).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_military_and_paramilitary_personnel

for water days before the first week was out. At least the 200 million or so Americans who don't have a natural fresh water source close by would be. Many roads would be closed and freedom of movement severely limited, not allowed at all in some areas, of course.

And, with what's happening in Puerto Rico in mind, everyone really should wonder when and if the municipal water pumps might be turned on in any area that decided to get the "revolution" over with. We are talking about fascist mentality, after all, which sees great virtue in authoritarian control of people, with punishment as needed to teach fear and obedience.

This would only mostly be in red and purple states, of course. Many Democratic governors and legislatures of blue states would fight, but likely sections of their own states would be taken over by local federal forces.

Our power is in the vote. Maybe figure out something really nice about Democrats tomorrow and say it to as many people as possible. And keep it up.

I can't believe you are advocating for human suffering so you can prove a point...well maybe I can

welcome to the revolution

How subversive.

He really does need to find new friends

Medicare more than ever these days because of a serious health challenge....I'd sure like to see your story if the same thing was needed by you....don't do a 'death panel' on me to satisfy your anarchic BS.

You want to hurt millions of Americans.

himself will actually suffer too badly.

Others' sacrifices will be sufficient in the service of "the cause."

for members without a clue

Last edited Thu Dec 21, 2017, 12:43 PM - Edit history (1)

for people who think they have a clue and don't Wonder where you'll be if there is a revolution....ohh wait, the revolution is in progress... and your solution is let them take, from millions of needy people Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, VET benefits ...all of which I WORKED for while serving the people of this country my whole life and now ending up knowing I served a country of liars, idiots, racist, sexist, homophobics, scoundrels and con men, 66million last count, plus the Congress, SC and the idiot potus while in the military and government service.

You are no solution, in my book. Scurry along now.

I will never cast another vote for a democrat again.
Fucking spineless cowards.

“We’ve got to get it done, but I’m not drawing a line in the sand that it has to be this week versus two weeks from now,” Sen. Claire McCaskill (D-Mo.)

What part of that is not defending DACA?

A response to all of you. I work with college students and my area of reasearch is Latin America. So I’ll guess that I have a much better finger on the pulse than any of you.
There are millions of us who are watching this. If they cave the first time, what in God’s name makes any of you think they won’t again.
Thank god im moving out of this fucked up country.

should not vote in the upcoming elections and let republicans maintain power thus causing exponentially more death of innocents?

Maybe you are not saying that but I have to ask.

The Democrats cave, and the repubs celebrate.

I'm sure they gave the same promises they gave to the SOB Coward Collins.....yeah, sure, they'll get to it....someday....maybe.....perhaps not.

If there is no way they will ever let DACA stand, then what is the harm in moving sick kids of citizens to the position of "do you want to shut down the government over this?" position.

Then if the government does shut down, the Dems get to blame all the hardship of the shutdown on the GOP not wanting sick kids to get medical care, instead of the GOP getting to say that Dems shut down the government trying to give undocumented kids something.

Which do you think will harm DACA more?

Tell me - what is there to lose, especially if, as you claim, DACA is never going to be accepted by the GOP?

I can't figure that out. Please explain that to me.

And you are trying to lecture us on it.

This is an emotional issue for you, I understand. And knee jerk anger is pretty satisfying - it makes us feel more powerful.

Anger just feels more effective than actually learning about what you are talking about in terms of legislation and legislating.

Moving CHIP into the do or die position is much stronger. Kids (kids of their citizen constituents) will lose medical care, and the Dems can use that as much more leverage. Dems can say that the GOP shut down the government not wanting to give kids medical care - kids who are kids of voting constituents.

If the government shuts down, how are the students going to benefit? If the government shuts down, and the GOP blames all the hardship that creates on Dems "wanting to give undocumented kids a free pass" how the hell does that help DACA?

Why don't you splain that to us?

Or just surrender to the GOP and refuse to vote?

I don't quite understand why you think that Republicans will be better for DACA (your default, for not voting for a Dem....or did you miss the results of the last election).

"Action is for mass salvation and not for the individual’s personal salvation. He who sacrifices the mass good for his personal conscience has a peculiar conception of “personal salvation”; he doesn’t care enough for people to be “corrupted” for them."

Her revolution was more important than anything...you have to face facts...we may not be able to win this...and blaming Democrats instead of those who elected Republicans and Republicans themselves is foolish.

seriously, I wonder what these folks think Democrats can do. The tax bill is hated , but the GOP passed it anyway.

Sort of like when someone says "You know, Meryl Streep just isn't that good. I don't really believe her," to show that they are REALLY more sophisticated and knowledgable than the rest of the public that likes her.

I think democrats are as scared of losing they’re jobs as republicans are. They are spineless.

perhaps your loyalties lie with another party and your lost loyalty to Dems makes that stand incompatible with DU?

I don't know where you see that Dems are "scared and spinless"...care to clarify? What are they scared of?

These Senate Dems surrendered. They did not fight or stand up for the party or its supporters. Who will they abandon next?

Purists suck, imho

I've read through this thread and its unwarranted.

If anything is unwarranted, it is turning a blind eye when elected Democrats will not stand up for the party's values.

Because you have been on DU longer, you automatically have more understanding of political strategy?

Honey - I've been on here way longer than you, so I guess that gives me way more understanding than you..



That is certainly a desperate attempt at a defense of your copy and paste, rather tone deaf and uniformed bashing of Dems here. BECAUSE PEOPLE JUST NEED TO AGREE WITH YOU RIGHT NOW!!! We get it...

(response indicating anyone who disagrees with you is deluded, has no standards for public officials, prefers fear to action, is "lost" and doesn't have any concern for DACA kids any understanding of this issue AT ALL in 3...2...1...)

as if tenure here means a depth and breadth of knowledge.....some people prove that to be a false equivalency

Because you personally need it for validation?

And if you don't get that validation, then you are upset?

That's the only explanation I can see.

You appear to be operating under the illusion that Republicans will relent and allow a vote on a DACA bill, either as a standalone bill or as an amendment to some other bill that is not mandatory for the Republicans to pass. Well, you can keep trying to kick that football, Charlie Brown, but it is never going to happen.

Are there 50 Senate votes for a DACA bill? Probably. Are there 60? I don't know. Regardless, I would rather Dems go for the guaranteed vote, pass or fail, instead of waiting for an imaginary vote that McConnell and company will make sure never becomes a reality. I refuse to give cover to Democrats who will not fight for our party's priorities. I am not going to shrug my shoulders like you are doing.

Last edited Wed Dec 20, 2017, 08:05 PM - Edit history (3)

Doesn't have their priorities in order...

Is Lost.....

Prefers fear to action....

simply shrugs shoulders....

Giving cover to Democrats who will not fight for our parties's priorities....

Is uniformed....

Is deluded....

Can't possibly be as knowledgeable about political strategy if they haven't been on DU as long as you....(but if they disagree with you and they have been here years longer than you, then that suddenly doesn't apply)...

Is clueless about the GOP...

And this from someone who says the GOP will never agree to DACA in any form while screeching that Dems need to be DEMANDING IT, while ignoring what they are doing to save it.

That's some delicate ego showing there. And a deep, deep need to dominate the conversation, as your reaction to being corrected or refuted in any way shows. Especially when people don't take the bait and blow up at you in a way that allows you to get their post removed when you insult their intelligence and imply that they are morally and intellectually bereft for not acquiescing that you have the one correct, moral viewpoint.

That just drives you nuts, doesn't it?

We get it... you have to BE THE ONE WHO IS RIGHT!!!!!

won't work in this manner.

You sound like you would be happier over at JPR.

I'm betting you already are.

They are fucking fighting every fucking day. I don’t know what fucking Democrats do wherever the fuck you’re from, but mine are fucking badass.