What I won't agree with is anything that puts repukes in those seats. If we can primary those Senators with electable progressives, then yes, go after them. However, if there are no other viable options then unfortunately we need to hold our nose and support them. We absolutely can't afford to let those seats go to repukes, even if it makes us feel warm and fuzzy for a little while.

brought this upon themselves with their snap lynch-mob like judgement. And there is going to be a price of some sort and level to pay. Personally, i can agree regarding most of them and their current elected office, but those who aspire to higher office, leadership positions, or are leaders ... not so much.

I agree with you that we can't let the Republicans take those seats. I'm very satisfied with what my senator, Tammy Baldwin, has done up to now, with the exception of joining in to railroad Al Franken. I'll absolutely vote for her, but as far as a donation: Only if she makes a public statement that she was wrong to participate in what happened to Franken.

Republicans. What I don't like is the idea that just having a Democrat in the seat is all that matters. In losing Franken we lost one of our staunchest voices. Replacing him with just another Democrat is a loss. It seems to suggest that the only thing that matters is the party label, and not what kind of a Democrat you are. We want the strongest possible Democrats, and Franken was one of them.

Minnesota is not as blue as a lot of people believe it to be. Franken's seat could wind up going red

Minnesota, like Wisconsin and Michigan surrounding it, are formerly solid-blue states that have been moving toward the Republicans over the past few decades. Even Walter Mondale, emerging from retirement after Wellstone's death, lost to Norm Coleman. And let's not forget that HHH's son, considered a shoo-in for governor, lost to Jesse Ventura. For that matter, recall what has happened with both Michigan and Wisconsin in recent years (not just going for Trump, but electing and re-electing hard-line Republican ideologues as governor). For that matter, Minnesota only barely fell into the Democratic column in 2016.

(Probably the most dispiriting thing is that, should this cost Democrats that Senate seat -- and, possibly, recapturing the Senate as a whole -- it's easy to predict the ensuing circular firing squad: Franken fans will blame Gillebrand and the centrists, while those in the party establishment will be quick to deal full responsibility to those "purist" Stein-loving patriarchal BernieBros who are really motivated entirely by sexism and who are just fine with sexual assault against women. )

After voting Obama twice

The old guard unionized Dems up there are dying out or flipping red out of anger that their good-paying mining jobs are disappearing.

because turnout in the red areas of the state was higher and turnout in the blue areas was down (in fact turnout among DFLers in general was down) hopefully people inclined to vote Democratic have learned their lesson for 2018.

Ventura won in a three way race with about 34% of the vote. Skip Humphrey really wasn't considered a shoo-in. He was a wonderful Attorney General but his campaign for governor was somewhat lackluster and, by the time he ran, a lot voters were too young to remember his father (Hubert Sr, had been dead about 20 years when Skip ran).

Mondale lost to Coleman for a variety of reasons. He only had 10 days to campaign, the stink the Republicans made about the Wellstone Memorial and the fact that a lot of absentee ballots had been cast and those that had been cast for Wellstone couldn't be counted for Mondale.

That said, we can't make assumptions about how Minnesota will go (just be thankful we have same day registration and paper ballots) and it was incredibly short sided of the Senate Democrats to throw Franken under the bus and leave us with two senate seats to defend this year. On the upside two of our traditionally Republican Congressional Districts now look like they could be flipped.

handing Franken's seat to Repukes this year instead of keeping it until 2020.

This type of abject stupidity needs to have consequences.

We can win, but not if this shit continues.

Franken asked for an ethics hearing,
but was told to just get out.

Sad

It didn't turn out well.

Hope others follow suit. Give the money to people who respect due process instead.

Removing Trump from office, or at least limiting his ability to cause harm, is priority one. The man is an existential threat to the country, if not the planet. Nothing else matters. And it's looking like the only chance we have to do this is to elect Democrats this November.

This would be like the fire department refusing to put out a fire because they have a disagreement with the homeowner. That disagreement may be legitimate, but put the damn fire out first.

The stupid move was a bunch of political hopefuls eliminating a very popular Senator for their political gain..

Now they are starting to deal with the consequences.

You can keep calling support of Franken stupid... Do so at your own risk.. You underestimate us and our conviction.

because then we are all fucked. This needs to end.

Not interested in debating. Just keep pushing. Eventually we are all going to say “ya know, I’m all over Franken being railroaded.” Good luck with that.

I am heartbroken with Franken's leaving, however I will not abandon the Democratic party because of it and Franken would not wish that either.

I saw no celebrations. Now while I was very angry with the Franken thing as some may remember, it is time to move on. There is no good that can be achieved by punishing Democrats you disagree with. There never is. Don't primary a sitting Democrat and don't withhold your vote in order to 'send a message' The message that will be sent is of a GOP victory ( that will show them right?). We have a GOP controlled Government save the money and time...use it to kick out as many Republicans as we can. Why do you suppose the GOP wanted Franken out? Incumbents have an advantage. This pernicious idea that we need to punish 38 Senators because they called for Franken's resignation could limit our chances of taking the House and maybe the Senate...many on this thread act like it is a shoo in that we will win...consider Democrats won by 10 points in Virginia and still didn't get the legislature...such is the power of a gerrymander. We simply don't need divisive shit at this time. All hands on deck; Time to stop this and work towards a Dem wave in 18 and of course electing a Democratic president in 20. That is our only priority or should be.

And I sent her a blistering fax

To date, I have not had a response from her

Am waiting

Not holding my breath ...

and another one.

people need to vote for Hillary in 2016. It didn't work well enough to avoid Trump and it won't now. This is about a problem with the Democratic Party as perceived by would be and potential Democratic candidate voters. And it doesn't fix that problem.

Many perceived it as an insider power play and a way to replace a popular senator with a more "centrist" person. Voters be damned. If your not a party insider you are screwed. At least that's the perception of many. The replacement comes from marketing at a big corporation.

Franken was an outstanding senator and for all his hard work he was completely RAILROADED

76% think MINNESOTANS should determine whether Franken keeps his job or not.

https://www.publicpolicypolling.com/polls/minnesotans-dont-think-franken-resign-franken-remains-popular-especially-women/

yes INDEED

Franken was no progressive radical, but he was more left than most. He was outspoken and a pain in the GOP's ass.

Franken was elected by the people and removed by the establishment. It was for the people, and only the people, to decide.

I really think Schumer was behind it all.

...if Democrats are on the verge of recapturing the Senate, but disgusted Minnesota Dems stay home from the polls in November, resulting in the election of Tim Pawlenty, giving the Republicans a 50-50 split in the Senate to be broken by Pence.

fight 8 months to count the votes to get him in office then have the ptb acorn him

just remember there are millions of us that think it is wrong but as ptb know, we have no choices

it's centrist dems or bat shit crazy repubs

He would be great in the job and it would help heal the situation.

The ONLY thing I care about is getting Democrats elected in 11 months. It's all that matters.

If Senate Democrats made a mistake in the way the Franken matter was handled, it can and should be addressed. But anything that undercuts the ability of the party to win going forward is a mistake.

But perhaps just a different method of implementation.

And it backfired. Gillibrand, especially, needs to pay a price and learn to play well with others who help our cause.

Fire departments are employed by and paid for with public taxes. Rich donors aren't under obligation to politicians. There's nothing analogous there.

If you really want to use an analogy involving putting out fires, maybe Senate Dems shouldn't have started this one. They thought they had it under control but it appears to be spreading in ways they didn't expect.

Could be sitting in Al Franken's Senate seat soon.

Somewhere Roger Stone and his gal pal that started this hit job are laughing their asses off.

Never fear, there will be money galore from our friendly casino owner as long as he doesn’t hear the word “billionaires”.

Kirsten Gillibrand saw a chance to look good at another Democrat’s expense and that will be hard for a lot of people to overlook. I’m hoping that Al Franken will run for governor of Minnesota this year. Dayton has said that he has no plans to run for a third term.

to the people who were A-OK with it: *FUCK YOU*

Gillibrand totally lost my respect on this one. If it were a matter of a reluctant conclusion based on conservation of Dem it would be one thing and possibly forgiveable.But getting on a moral high horse about the situation, nope: not right.😡

Thanks but we don't need any more of those.

there are already a lot of DFLers running for the position.

Most the candidates have been in it for months and the real fun begins on February 6 when caucuses are held. I don't think Al would buck the state party, skip caucuses and party endorsement and just go to the primary.

It's her money.

I am sure if we start being anti-climate change and pro fossil fuels we can get the Koch’s to contribute, so why not start disbelieving victims of harassment to satisfy the whims of rich donors.

Last edited Sun Jan 7, 2018, 03:04 AM - Edit history (1)

No one is saying that Democrats should throw-out core principles: exactly the opposite. It was Schumer, Gillibrand, Harris, and other conservadems who threw out the principles of due process, fairness, and sticking together as a party who got us into this mess. And many of us are saying they were wrong to do so.

Also, Schumer and Gillibrand, as reliable Wall Street pawns (almost inevitable for a NY Senator, but can't we hope for better?), are the main Democrats catering to the whims of billionaires here.

-app

But it will have a lot of support here unfortunately.

They put ideological purity and self-interest above the party. They are the ones endangering Dems by showing they have no more regard for truth or justice than their repug counterparts. Now, any & all Dems can be taken down by rw lies - the bar has been set and it could kill our chances. What they did was heinous, not just to Franken but to the party and any and all candidates. I would be very surprised if some of the 36 didn't have similar claims made against them, it's what they asked for, to their shame.

I found out the latter the hard way.

Yeah those 30 senators did our party a big disservice in their effort to outs their more powerful and more popular comrade. Congrats to the worst democratic conference in history, none of you are closer to POTUS and all of us worse off for your scumbaggery.

Because I do. She was my House Rep before she was my Senator, and I am grateful for her every day.

But then again, I think giving Franken a pass would've been a huge mistake, so what do I know.

She felt the people of NYC should decide the matter. I think that she is s hypocritical political opportunist.

http://m.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/kirsten-gillibrand-anthony-weiner_n_3674118

If Susie Tompkins Buell would put her money behind a candidate run in the 2018 primary, Gillibrand would go up in smoke.
New York State is a very Al Franken State. The NYS progressives would come out if we have a viable candidate.

if they can.

Personally, I agree with her.

stuff gained over a 100 years...is it really worth it? I say no. Nothing is more important than stopping Trump. If we get the Senate, he doesn't get any more judges...and getting into a snit over Franken is just plain foolish. I was angry about it, but if the donor does this and all of you continue what you are doing and we don't win, do you really think you will wake up and say "Thank God we lost and Trump can do what he wants...that will show them?"...you only help the right wing who set Franken up. If the GOP with help from Progressives stop the blue wave in 18..imagine their delight with folks who seem to think the Franken situation is more important than winning...how about those emails right?

her statements re Se. Franken, and am now completely disgusted by her action.

New York, being a long-time Democratic-voting state, should have a deep bench of great candidates for state and federal offices.
I don't know how Gillibrand rose to the surface so quickly.

At the end of the day, many liberals can be just as reactive and resistant to addressing sexism and assault as Roy Moore supporters as noted in this article by Vox. Sexism and misogyny are bipartisan.

https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/12/22/16747884/tribalism-progressive-believing-women-jk-rowling-johnny-depp-al-franken

Multiple Democrats, including Keith Olbermann and bloggers at the Daily Kos, invent conspiracy theories to defend Al Franken. Celebrity feminist Lena Dunham makes a public statement declaring that an accusation of rape against one of the staff writers for her show Girls must be “one of the 3 percent of assault cases that are misreported every year,” citing her “insider knowledge.” And J.K. Rowling, a longtime advocate for survivors of domestic abuse, tells the world that she is sure this accused abuser is just fine.

This trend demonstrates the power of tribalism, how our identification as part of a “team” can overrule even values that appear to be deeply held. And it shows how insidiously violence against women is baked into our culture, so that even those who seem to want to fight against it feel compelled to look the other way once it stares them directly in the face.

Last edited Thu Jan 25, 2018, 12:55 AM - Edit history (2)

Yes, I am saying that I "believe" that Tina Dupuy is a psycho. If you ask for a photograph "with" someone, putting an arm around a waist is a normal gesture of proximity and friendliness. It is not sexual assault.

If you want to believe partisan Republican Leanne Tweeden, go right ahead, but you don't get to pretend that you're taking a Democratic or progressive stance when doing so.

I feel no obligation to support anyone who railroaded Franken. He was a Democrat I supported. Why should I support his opponents?

-app

...NOT voting is the same damn thing.

I agree with your position on Gillibrand.

I will gladly vote for them over a 'CON and I know that NOT voting is still a 'vote', it's a vote given to the opposition.

Do I think they screwed up big time on this? Absolutely. Do I always agree with them? Hell no BUT overall they're good Democrats with decent voting records to prove it and I'm not about to 'bite my nose off to spite my face', stop voting for them in the general elections and risk a RepubliCON winning.

Senator and make sure she never runs for national office.
Unimpressed with Gillibrand.
Schumer does a good enough job, though I agree with those who believe we need younger fresher faces in the Dem party to win nationally. (I am a senior senior, so it's not ageism on my part.)

Please grow a strong bench in NY state!

Does Buell have an email address? I would like to give her a few suggestions as to whom she can send money.

got into the Senate because the original choice to replace H. Clinton, Caroline Kennedy dropped out suddenly for fear of causing a family scandal. Gillibrand came from a, sort of, I think, pedigreed N.Y.S. Republican background.

I agree. My problem is that if our fellow Democrats in the Senate are willing to be like this to one of our strongest voices in the Senate, how sincere are they in seeking to stand up for the rest of us nameless peons?

I will absolutely and without hesitation support our nominees in the General in November. We do need to take back at least one house of Congress. But of those that call for contributions who participated in Al Franken's hounding out of the Senate--they will have to leave a message (they always do that anyway), which I won't hear until I'm back in the USA in August and get stuck in the Dallas office with two and a half hours' worth of emails to listen to. I don't have the time to call them all from Europe, and as a Texas voter, their staff won't care what I have to say anyway. I never identify myself as a contributor, as I don't believe that money is a reason to pay more attention to one caller over another.

I will forgive because I have to, and the offending Senators still MIGHT make great contributions.

I will never forget, however. Never.

Stop it right fucking now!! Would she like those seats filled by fucking Repubicans?! Well, look what that shit has gotten us. I'm sick and tired of this fucking shit. Use your goddamn heads people!!! We're not stupid ass, purity test, fucking Rethugs!!! What matters are the '18 elections....period....end of story. Stop the same goddamn circular firing squads that helped put shitgibbon in the fucking White House.

Nt

Can only help the Party. Right?

Bullying witchunts from happening again ? It seems to me that a lot of people want this to go away because they know they fucked up, and the supporters of the likes of Gillibrand know the longer it's brought up the longer it will haunt and taint her political career. In my opinion she must never be allowed forget what she did, not least because a future Democratic president must not be trigger happy. Only one of them has apologised for taking part in the lynch mob, more should follow suit.

then I'm 1000% behind Tompkins Buell.

These Dem Senators acted without granting Franken due process, pressured ("mobbed&quot him to resign before all the facts were out. It's been a month of the majority of DUers expressing anger, frustration, outrage at our own Senators here. No amount of emails, calls to these Dem Senators. or protest posts here have had any effect upon the Dem leadership or their position against Franken. Nor has our millions of Democratic voices in opposition resulted in any kind of release of additional, convincing info confirming that instant ostracism of Franken was justified. The case ag Franken, as understood by us mere lay Democrats, is full of gapping,swiftboatish holes and appears an extreme, opportunistic overreaction by Senators in our own Party.

What they have managed to do is not only cheat Minnesotans and us all of a hard fought, duly elected, beloved senator; they have also cast a very dark cloud over Franken's ethics and political future. The facts, as far as the public knows, neither convincing nor proportionate to the "sentence"this mob of our own senators took upon themselves to levy upon Franken. Nobody understands why Franken was ostracized, kneecapped, railroaded. " What did he do?", asked on SNL, then the mystery evolves into into "What did he really do?"as our Democratic Senators continued stonewalling. The objection from Manchin finally(!) some indication that there really is no further info, no real case ag Franken. But no one admits it, so Franken now becomes a reliable Reoublican punchlne.

I'm a Democrat who has worked and donated to our Party for fifty years. My emails to my Ca Senators fell on deaf, autoresponse ears. If it takes a big donor to push the Democrats in the Senate to address the abject anger of their constituents, to provide a convincing explanation of why they felt compelled to en masse condemn him, OR to force them to admit they made a mistake and apologize to Franken and to their voters, then I am 1000% on board.

The "Franken Affair" is not going away. This needs resolution ASAP, this mess needs to be cleaned up. Only the Republicans put Party First. Only the Republicans hunker down behind their lies and mistakes, lack the maturity to correct or apologize. Ignoring or stonewalling is what Republicans do.

We are Democrats not Republicans.

As long as she spends to support Dems ???
I have no problem

but when a single person thinks they can use money to buy loyalty then screw them.

My opinion.