I am also the fastest person in the world.

You will just have to take my word for it.

hard for you.. I have to go now; much, much work to do for you. Please send more money, this is tough work.

You don't need to see any photos. Move along, nothing to see here.

point this out and challenge him to release the returns to prove his claims.

people of Massachusetts in 2002, running for Governor.

That's all we have to know, a liar lies once, probably will lie again just to get elected.

The best line of attack on Romney, ask him to prove it with the tax returns.

And don't offer him a "retroactive" fix.

I wonder if he is weaseling around that by pretending other taxes (such as on gas or whatever) are taxes on his income, but not specifically "income taxes."

And so has Laurence O'Donnell.


rocktivity

I did not, however, pay any federal income tax on the deodorant.

ETA: Rats, Arugula Latte beat me to it.

Just because he said it, does not make it true.
Especially from a habitual liar.

Release the taxes, and prove it.

P.S. RMoney has spent the last month doctoring his returns so that it
doesn't appear that he's paid 0%.
Even John McCain claims RMoney hasn't paid any taxes in 10 years.

It's really as simple as that. Show that he lied before about taxes, filed false returns,

Get this man off the stage, let him go down as the worst candidate ever posed by Republicans.

The evidence is out there, lied over and over. Still lying now.

Bishop Willard does it with such ease -

independently verify EVERYTHING that the man says. That's an unfortunate character flaw in a presidential candidate, but it's what the republican party is offering America as its leader.

Until his tax claims can be independently verified, put him on ignore and continue demanding the release of additional tax returns.

Obama should just pack up and concede the election right now.

[IMG][/IMG]

Note that a single person making $86K is paying more than double what mittens is paying.

If you made 86,000 (taxable) you paid $870 (10% of 8,700) + about $4000 (15% of $27,000) + 12,500 (25% of 50,000) = about $17,300, which is about 20 % of $86,000.

Still unconscionable of course, given his real total income, but really about 1 1/2 times the % rate.

for social security and medicare

He's an idiot. Or she, if that single person's a female.

1. That percentage is on adjusted income. Most people, when reporting their actual income tax rate, use gross income as the denominator.

2. That percentage is the rate for income that exceeds the next lowest cut-off. So that single person making 86,000/year in adjusted gross income is paying 28% on all his income over 85,651. If he's making $86,001, then he's paying 28% on a whopping $362. And 25% on the amount between 35,351 and 85,650, and 15% on the amount between 8701-35,350, and 10% on the amount from 1 to 8700.

He pays $870 for the first bracket.
He pays $3998 for the second bracket,
He pays $12575 for the third bracket,
and he pays $101 for the remainder in the 4th bracket.
Total: $17,544 on adjusted income of 86000. That's 20.4%.

Now, unless he's a dependent then he's taking the standard deductions (at a minimum, so his income's probably $92,000 or above. At 92k, he's paying 19%.

3. That assumes he has no taxable dividend income. The tax rate for that is currently 15% on net dividend income. That's capital gains - qualifying capital losses. Note that a lot of increased wealth is non-taxable. My mother's IRA went from $175k to $200k over a few years, but only those stocks that were sold contributed to capital gains.

4. This also assumes he has no retirement account contributions or any other kind of deduction--no kids, no self-employment tax, etc. Any additional deduction would increase his unadjusted gross income and that would reduce his effective income rate.

Our family income's gone between $50-60k/year in the last 6 years. In no year have we paid more than around 6% federal income tax, and we're only two parents and one kid, have no dividend income, and don't itemize.

I know I paid a hell of alot more in the last 10 years than Mitt says he did, and I was in a low wage bracket.

While I am sure his word is coin of the realm , it would be a simple matter to prove.

WE should be satisfied with and that he no longer has in his Uncle Scrooge vault to run his fingers through. Every once in a while he spends some to get more but he decimates the companies he's over taken to add to his coffers. I'm sure he's counting on his wealth to make himself a bigger goodlike figure in the afterlife. Poor mitt, he's a victim...

that he took questionable deductions or other tax dodges.

Almost all his income is from dividends. They're taxed at 15%. Even when he did the Bain "thing" his "earned income" was still counted as dividends and taxed at that rate.

People don't like the 15% unearned income tax rate for dividends (or the quirk in the law that says hedge fund manager salaries get taxed at the dividend rate). They also tend to think that the top marginal rate is what they pay on all their income, even though most of them know better when they do their IRS forms (or should, if they stopped to actually ponder the ratio of tax paid after filing the 1040 to their annual gross income).

A lot of people also don't distinguish between wealth and income. Your IRA goes from $10 million to $100 million and you pay no taxes on the increase in wealth because it's not income.

A lot of people also don't realize that 2008 and 2009 also saw a lot of capital losses. They count against investment income in many cases.


Start at 15%, look at actual income and not wealth, remove any qualifying capital losses and fairly routine deductions (and some not-so-routine but still perfectly legal) and that 13% doesn't sound too fishy.

Like the rest of the 1%, Romney knows how to rake it in and call it all losses, while living a lavish lifestyle. Meanwhile ordinary people struggle to pay their debts and go without health care and even food.

Scum.

Or maybe hedge our bets by sending you into early political retirement.

So it is the Amnesty over his Swiss bank account that he's hiding, or he's simply lying. Which is it Mitt?

He can tell us whatever the hell he pleases as long as he refuses to release his tax returns.

He's finished and he knows it. It's just in flail mode now.

he laughs a little too much and sweats a little too much.

BULLSHIT!

Probably Rmoney used tax lawyers and accountants and offshore bank accounts to shuffle money and paper losses so that he could declare almost no income. Then he paid poverty tax rates on poverty income, all the while living high off the hog and getting richer.

Sending a horse to London? An expense! Going to London to watch? A supervisory expense!

Paid 13% just like everyone making less than $20,000 a year. lol

What a frikken weasel!

YM

Weasels are MUCH more respectable than repuglicans, sir!

he's now playing 'thread the needle' with anything he can say that will technically be true without being forthright

and all this time he could have 're-filed' as he did before to change his Massachusett's status, and then he can re-file again later to change everything back after the election.

We all know he will SAY ANYTHING or DO ANYTHING... he has proven it time and time again

I think America is beginning to see a weasel at work here

(apologies to weasels)

..his "income" was probably like 20k.

if he took the amnesty by admitting felony/ies.

They are scared to lose access to that loser after Nov. 7.

they won't need access to him after Nov. 7.

truthisfreedom

wow 13 percent taxes.... When he have millions and millions in his bank accounts.. really impressive... Do I need to have an sarcasm tag here?


Diclotican

This is not the Soviet Union; one is presumed innocent until proven guilty, and it is the accuser who bears the burden of proof, so stonewalling when someone says you haven't paid taxes is somewhat acceptable: it's his accusers who need to present the proof. When someone makes a flat-out statement like this, however, that person is bound by the covenant of a decent society to prove it if called out.

Beyond all that, though, where the fuck did it become acceptable that 13% was a fair tithing to the society that supports oneself? Talk about spurious arguments.

Romney said no such thing. Once again, he specifically AVOIDED using the term "Income Taxes."

“I did go back and look at my taxes and over the past 10 years I never paid less than 13 percent. I think the most recent year is 13.6 or something like that. So I paid taxes every single year,” he told reporters Thursday.

He is just being his usual lying businessman self.

.

... How come Mittens, with at least a HUNDRED TIMES my income, only has to pay 13 percent--HALF the rate I pay?????

Mittens only provided portions of his 2010 taxes and will do the same for 2011. He is privileged and the privileged need not comply to any rules, laws and regulations, thats only for the little people.

This is why the GOPpers are implementing all those voter id laws and also the constant purging but these are the same people who are constantly crying "Freedom". I believe Pres O will win as well as keeping the senate. It would be wonderful if the house cross-over as well. One thing about the Democratic Party, its a rainbow, but the GOP Party is grey.

The federal income tax rate is far lower than that.

Including self-employment taxes? That's still under 35%.

Perhaps with state income tax thrown in? What state has >9% income tax?

Which bonuses should be taxed higher, but only after X amount of bonus dollars accrued. Where I used to work I was paying over 30% on $150 which killed my bonuses that I worked my ass off for. I understand taxing CEOs that high, they get WAY more. But for someone like me who's getting far less, that's just an abusive rate.

I wouldn't put it past him.

It's not charity, his church demands it.

more tithes from more people, and invest in hate for gay people in California, and other hate schemes.

You shoulda stuck to stonewalling, Mittens. Now we have it from your own Richie Rich mouth that you pay less than someone making $35K per year.

Didn't you learn ANYTHING from that dancing horse of yours about sidestepping your own poop?

And he's applying for the most powerful political position in the world.

. . . you know, the same guy who says Bain Capital created jobs and that Obama's policies are destroying Medicare and that the Ryan budget will save Medicare.

Excellent!!

put up or shut up.

Pink diamonds, eh? Nice diet.

This was posted on CBS's website:

by bokehbrian August 16, 2012 12:24 AM EDT
What I am about to say is 100% true, and I am only sharing it because there is no job more important then US President, and as an American we should vote, and we have a right to be informed to make the right decision. So you know I am not some random whack job I will tell you my name is Brian Murphy, I am CEO of JRM Resource Management and have worked for government IT contractors for the past 15 years (look it up)

A few nights ago I went out to dinner with some old associates. the person I am speaking about in this post was one of the people there. I have known him for 13 years. He spent 8 years working at the IRS as a senior IT person working on TIPPS, the web integration with large companies and several other projects.

After dinner we were having a few drinks and discussing the election. The topic of "would Romney release any more tax returns?" came up. My friend laughed and said "ill bet you a years pay that no matter how much heat he takes he won't release a single year more" and then laughed.

All of us there knowing he spent several years at the IRS pushed him "why? what do you know?" we asked with a joking smile.

He paused then took a drink and looked at us and said "because, if he did he would have to show everyone that he took amnesty for a crime at the very least, and I can't imagine he would have a snowballs chance in hell of being elected if that came out" then he took a drink and refused to elaborate.

I asked him several times if he was serious and he said he was. In 13 years i have NEVER known him to tell a lie, certainly not make up a story.

Although he failed to elaborate the ONLY thing he possibly could have been referring to was the amnesty the IRS offered US citizens who were hiding assets in Switzerland a few years back. He certainly worked there, certainly worked where and in the place where it would be possible for him to have access to that information.

Id bet 10k Mitt does not release any more returns.

If you can find a bunch of takers for that bet, I think you should start looking at off shore bank accounts.

"Mr. Romney, did you avail yourself of the tax amnesty in 2009"?

Not the amnesty part. That could very well be true. And not that you found it posted on the CBS site (in the comments section, right?). That's probably true, although it is customary to post a link. "Brian Murphy's" story sounds like bullshit.

But I wouldn't take the 10k bet at anything worse than 1000-to-1 odds.

Welcome to DU

And whatever it is, it is bigger than losing a Presidential election, which is what he's putting on the line by not disclosing. It is a malefaction that is either criminal, deserving of public approbation, or both.

The amnesty move would qualify as "both." Criminal, then morally outrageous once he got himself off the hook. And, it is important to note, if he did take the amnesty in '09, that means Mitt was playing Governor while also being a felonious tax cheat. Amnesty only evades the conviction, while admitting the crime.

I just don't believe that an IRS employee saw evidence of it and then told "Brian Murphy" about it.

Since Mitt is logically boxed in, anyone can claim knowledge of Mitt's guilt (legal and/or ethical), and be proven correct to some degree later.

We should expect plenty of people to latch on to that and fill in the tunnel with details of their own conjecture.

But at the same time, a great many people probably know some details or are in a position to make very accurate additional guesses of their own. The list of disgruntled former associates of Mr. Romney is probably longer than the number of participants in this thread.

To a certain degree, I hope that Romney can hold on to some of the more damning facts until after the convention and ideally closer to October, when the disclosures will cause even more damage to himself and his party. But I don't think the hive mind is going to let him get anywhere near that far before the general outline of Mitt's indiscretion is fully sketched.

But I'll say this: Mitt hasn't told the truth about a single damned thing yet, and I'll bet that didn't stop with the IRS--before, during or after that amnesty, if he took it. If details begin to spill, some of them might just revoke the terms of the amnesty. So my guess--definitely a guess--is that this time two years from now Mitt is going to be planning a vacation to Club Fed.

I think Mitt Romney now has the chance to lose the mid-term elections of 2014 for the Republicans, too, which would certainly place him among the very worst candidates in US history. What a guy.

He said the IRS guy said only the same things that many other people have speculated about, and what he believes may be true (believes strongly enough to wager on it). He didn't claim to have first hand knowledge of the Romney's tax return.

.............. then prove it, let's see those tax returns.

...I'm not a Romney fan

but his statment

Is that different than income tax?

the guy who leaked was a Bain guy

It's either secret or imaginary, I get those concepts confused sometimes.

Mitt & Ann stand with Leona Helmsley--only "you people" pay taxes.

Release 'em and prove me wrong, Mittens!

I have paid 28-46% taxes per year for the past decade. When employed with a W2, I was paying 28-35% on approx 70K. The past 2 years, I was self employed. My taxes were 46%. Now you tell me, let a millionaire pay 13% (because he can hire an expensive lawyer and deduct items such as 70K for frickin horse) or let let the middle class pay twice or sometime triple what Rmoney is paying? And now he wants to give the 1% more of a tax break and tax our middle class asses more? WTF is wrong with this picture? With the 3 phase GOP approach of destroying Obama, we're all screwed if Robme wins. By the 3 phase approach, I mean Phase 1 - McConnell indicating day 1 that they would make sure Obama gets 1 term. They fought EVERYTHING he has attempted to do. Phase 2 - Get support from the richest in the country to slam and destroy Obama (mostly racist items), and Phase 3 - Voter Suppression. The sad part is they are getting away with it legally. It is clearly obvious to me that the RIGHT stands for me, me me, and screw everyone else. They are, for the most part, vindictive, hateful, racist people.

Oh yeah, I forgot about all the job-creating investments and capital gains for which he should just never pay a penny of tax.

It's very simple...

..it's what is at the bottom of that last form, that matters. He could have been taxed at 13.9%, but taken so many deductions and losses, that he truly paid nothing.. or worse yet, got money back. It's semantics.

you rich bastards.
Most of us at least 25%, so I wouldn't be bragging about 13%.

ya vulture capitalist.

in that rate.

So it might be less than a dollar, and he could still claim it was in the 13% rate.

Who knows?

According to the Wiki.


Marginal Single Tax Rate

10% $0 to $8,700
15% $8,700 to $35,350
25% $35,350 to $85,650
28% $85,650 to $178,650
33% $178,650 to $388,350
35% $388,350+

Why say taxes and not income taxes.
Could he mean WITHHOLDING taxes, which he PAYED and which HE GETS BACK, include PROPERTY taxes, SALES taxes, GAS taxes, UTILITY taxes, SS/MC at 7.65% and some freelancing at 15.3%.

Could he try including his TITHING to his club, er, church as it is a recognized tax deduction.

And, say it is 13% of WHAT, the income minus FOREIGN accounts, minus paper losses from Bush II depression.

Or, is that 13% after paying penalties under amnesty from his CRIMINAL foreign money hiding.

How much wiggle room is offered by "or something like that."

And, how about if he REFILED, shows us, then REFILES again getting it all back.

I caught a clip of Willard yesterday where he was talking about his "charitable contributions" (IMHO it's not charity if it's required even though the IRS thinks differently) in the same breath as his taxes, implying he thinks of them as the same thing.

If he did.. this deal will show up in his tax returns... proving that he is a crook.. liar.. and Job stripper.