This is a terrible bill.

FOSTA/SESTA and the CLOUD Act are very ominous developments for the future of free speech on the internet.

sex trafficking of kids, so what is the wording that broadens this bill to make it dangerous to free speech?

Good "Why FOSTA is bad"

Why Sex Workers Are Opposed to Sex-Trafficking Bill 'SESTA' - https://www.thecut.com/2018/03/sesta-anti-sex-trafficking-bill-fosta.html

FOSTA backlash: How the anti-sex trafficking bill could harm sex worke - https://www.fastcompany.com/40537286/fosta-backlash-how-the-anti-sex-trafficking-bill-could-harm-sex-workers

EFF: FOSTA Would Be a Disaster for Online Communities - https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2018/02/fosta-would-be-disaster-online-communities

And "House overwhelmingly passes a bill that conflates sex work and sex trafficking" - https://thinkprogress.org/house-bill-endangers-sex-workers-advocates-say-7a47ce9b2b4f/

The problem is that, even as we see here, all sex work is viewed as sex trafficking on some level by a lot of people. It's using a AR-15 to solve a problem that requires more nuanced approaches.

I am a BDSM lifestyle Dominant and am friendly with a great many pro-Dommes; most are concerned for their livelihoods and their ability to work and advertise independently because of this bill and its targeting of backpage and similar sites.

Huge difference between non-consensual sex trafficking and sex workers making an honest living in the business they have chosen.

Last edited Sat Apr 14, 2018, 11:34 AM - Edit history (3)

Mainly because a lot of people view sex work (including pornography) as a form of prostitution (exchanging sex for money) -- and prostitution is still illegal.


rocktivity

It's that many can't get their heads around - simply refuse to accept - the fact that some people actually want to do this work.


So everyone who does do it must be forced/trafficked or a victim in some way. Regardless of what any actual sex workers have to say, these people just can't tolerate the idea of someone doing this of their own free will. So they shut out any voices or information that would be contrary to that view. They just will not even listen.

Last edited Wed Nov 20, 2019, 12:36 AM - Edit history (3)

However, conflating it with prostitution, pornography AND human trafficking makes them all even more dangerous by driving them back into the underground -- which WON'T help eliminate them.


rocktivity

As far as advertising goes, the real solution (imo) would be smartly regulated legalized prostitution, with specific legal online resources for advertising. Would make it easier to differentiate legit sex workers from human traffickers and sex slaves. My mom had an escort friend in college who really liked it. Some actually do, but need more autonomy to protect themselves from abusive clients and other forms of exploitation.

They did about 20 years ago. Removes organized crime from the sex trade and improves the health and welfare of sex workers.

I presume all the preposterous, hyperbolic and comical hand wringing is coming from those who either profit from or enjoy themselves the "services" of what is now supposed to be politely called "sex workers."

Though with one post removed in this thread I don't believe you're allowed to post any further in it.

I mean, this is a site where everything Trump and the Republicans do is (rightly) mistrusted.

Yet somehow on this one thing..this one particular issue..his and their intentions are taken at face value.


Because it deals with sex work. And this is the prevailing attitude here on that topic. Pretty sad really.

Having been involved or watched the "porn wars" that happen every year it never seems to really improve. It's the same sticking points over and over.

Your comment is equivalent to "Trump opponents don't want America to be Great Again".

Gee, thanks for giving me the benefit of the doubt there.


There's a ton of stuff you could read on this if you're really interested, but basically it makes website owners criminally liable for third party content. In other words, anything posted on their site.

Have you even read anything about this?

of sex crimes to have a right to a more easy legal relief a bad thing. I don't think rape used in commercial venture makes rape free speech vs a rape, which is what it is. I certainly don't think of rape as free speech regardless of media or venue, do you?

(so of course Dolt45 had no problem signing it)

This makes it basically impossible for internet sites that can't afford to have lawyers on standby to have open comment sections.

so many sites have had to shut down stuff that could be used for it, just in case. Craigslist shut down their personals section to avoid legal consequences. It could be an issue for discussion boards and most any other communication platform.

as well as for sex workers who actually enjoy what they do and are not victims in any way.

"Selling is legal. Fucking is legal. Why isn't selling fucks legal?" - George Carling

The 1% will still do as they please

The rich still do what they want

that ANYTHING Shithole supports has got to be incredibly bad?

why would he ever sign anything that is good for the common person. In my mind, he wouldn't. All the rich ones, like limpballs can go offshore for their pedophilia and sex trafficking.

Do you think you stopped sex trafficking? Cuz you didn't, you just drove it further underground.
What you have done is taken away the only real venues and tools that sex workers used to screen and choose their clients. Now, nobody is going to deny that there wasn't underage sex trafficking happening on Backpage, but I suspect that it is a tiny minority of the people posting ads. Women's corrections and sex work has been an academic interest for me since college when I took a prison literature class.

In full disclosure, I am friends with a few sex workers and they are in full on panic mode. They just lost their jobs. They are all private contractors, there are no men in their life controlling or exploiting them. Let's hear some of their stories.

"Sarah" was an aspiring model working with agencies and going to school for modeling. Unfortunately picked up a heroin habit along the way. She started escorting on Backpage because she found it kinda exciting, the money was good and it financed her growing addiction ($250 an hour is nothing to sneeze at) . She and I established a friendship she contacted me in panic, stranded in a Walmart parking lot and dope sick and needing a place to stay for a day or two. She showed up bedraggled and shaking, a far cry from the pretty young woman I had seen in the neighborhood. Luckily she had enough stuff with her that she was able to fix up and stop puking. After going over some ground rules (I trust you but I do not trust the drug so please don't steal from me etc) I agreed to let her stay. Most of that time was spent trying to get her eat some real non-processed food (I'm a chef by trade) and providing a safe calm space for her to chill and watching movies (she's partial to Dwayne Johnson flicks) while waiting for the phone to ring. If a client did leave a message, she'd run his number through VerifyHim.com to see if there were any red flags, and then would contact him to arrange the details. If she wasn't feeling it, or just didn't want to, she ignored the call. Ended up staying a few days, occasionally still drops by if she needs a quiet safe place to escape the chaos of her everyday life. I have on occasion given her $20 here and there if she was short for a fix to save her from being sick.

"Indigo" is an old ex-girlfriend of mine who did erotic massage. Was introduced into the work by her best high school friend. Again, a private contractor working when, as much and with whom she wanted. Her niche was providing a scent and allergen free environment. Talked to clients about diet and health (she's a hard core vegan and animal rights activist) Ended up financing a couple month bike tour through Thailand with other Vegan/fruit type of folks.

"Paris" escorted part time in addition to her normal "straight" job to help support her daughter and pay off some medical bills. Last I heard she was running or was part owner of a car dealership.

With the possible exception of Sarah, whose addiction drives her escorting, the majority of the women who work or have worked in the industry did it freely of their own choice, and Backpage allowed them to do it safely.

Backpage was a seedy place. No question. It was effectively THE internet brothel. But we knew where it was. If we were actually serious about stopping trafficking and exploitation we could have monitored the site. Set up a database of phone numbers and pictures and times of postings so you could look at manipulate real data to look for trends, to look for red flags and to work with outreach programs and law enforcement as applicable.
We just burned down the brothel without even checking to see if there was anyone inside.

I'm sure I'l get the shit flamed out me for this post but I shall sign off as I always do and have since 2004.

peace,
Noodleboy

Last edited Fri Sep 30, 2022, 11:39 AM - Edit history (15)

A further fleshed out idea I had was that Backpage could have hired people at a regional or citywide level whose job it was to monitor the site. You set up a database with numbers, pictures, posting times etc. That way you can manipulate the data and look for trends. But most importantly, you have to look through the pics. Look at the background. Is it a seedy motel room? Is it a messy bedroom? Is it a professional photo in a high rise apt with a view of the city? These are all different situations. Are the pictures obviously taken by someone else, or are they mainly selfies Do they include face pics or is a never ending parade of butts. This would allow Backpage to work with law enforcement and social services as applicable. Those ads featuring professional level photos of doe eyed Asian women and signs like "New girls in from Taiwan" are probably not legit and shady as hell. Well, give LEO a heads up.

Those numbers you have in your database? Send out mass texts with a message like
"Tired of the life? Exploited? Too Frightened to leave? The Safe Haven project of X city offer 24 help. Contact us at ........" These women effectively run a private business out of their smart phones. The only way to reach them is electronically.

You can do psychological stings. You put up a fake ad with a picture of someone who is maybe just a little to young. You set a bubbly voiced vmail. When Mr Icky man leaves a message you do a quick reverse lookup of his info and a deep menacing Male voice calls him back with something like "Mr IckyMan, It might be in your best interest to stop looking at Backpage."

These are just a few ideas I had.

peace,
Noodleboy