Breivik verdict: mass-murderer declared sane and sentenced to 21 years
Source: Guardian
Anders Behring Breivik, the Norwegian far-right extremist, has been sentenced to at least 21 years in prison after a court declared he was sane throughout his murderous rampage last year that killed 77 people.
The Oslo district court declared its verdict that the 33-year-old was not psychotic while carrying out the twin attacks, including the shooting of dozens of teenagers attending a political camp.
The court's decision will have delighted Breivik, who had hoped to avoid what he called the "humiliation" of being dismissed as a madman.
The mass-killer had desperately hoped the court would find him criminally culpable for the killings, claiming they were "cruel and necessary" to protect Norway from becoming overrun by Muslims.
Read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/aug/24/breivik-verdict-sane-21-years?newsfeed=true
Anders Behring Breivik: Norway court rules him sane
The five judges were unanimous in ruling that Breivik was sane.
They gave him the maximum sentence of 21 years, but that can be prolonged at a later if he is deemed to remain a danger to society.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-19365616
NYC Liberal
(20,136 posts)Tx4obama
(36,974 posts)-snip-
He was sentenced to the maximum possible term of 21 years and was ordered to serve a minimum of 10 years in prison. The time he has already spent in prison counts toward the term.
-snip-
http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/24/world/europe/norway-breivik-trial/index.html
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)...regardless of the sentence.
Diclotican
(5,095 posts)Tx4obama
He can - and will possible be kept in a prison even after 21 year behind bars TX4Obama.. Trust me, no one will have him living next to them..
Our constitution put it clearly, no one can be punished to a stricter punishment than the maximum penalty who was at the book when the crime was committed - and in 2011 the maximal crime was 21 year behind bars - but we also have laws, that can be used to keep him inside on a cell also after the maximal penalty - as he can be deemed to dangerous to the society at large. And he can then given time of 5 and 5 years - after a review from the court. And as Breivik have shown no remorse whats so ever under the court case against him I serious doubt he will show any remorse after 21 year in a prison.. If he is deemed to be a danger to himself, or to others after say 10 year - he will be looked up and then be there for the next 10 year.. And even after that, I suspect most court will find him dangerous to the society, and held him for a long time..
He will never be a free man again.. And if he ever was pardoned - the fallout from that would be a taxied one.. A whole Cabinet would be asked to step down by the Parliament if that was to happened.. Mr Breivik will a "Hot potato" for many decades - a person no one will touch because of what he represent... It will be like given Quisling freedom after 21 year - he was the collaborator for the germans already in 1940, and was kind of "first minister" from 1942, to he got arrested in 1945 - and then shoot at the fortress of Akershus in 1945. And his last name, made it into the english langauage as one who betreyed his own nations and pepole to the enemy..
Diclotican
amandabeech
(9,893 posts)Thanks for writing, D. I was hoping that you'd explain things for us, because here, 21 years would be a scandalously short sentence for so many deaths caused by a sane man who shows no remorse.
Tx4obama
(36,974 posts)Diclotican
(5,095 posts)Tx4obama
I try, but i looks like a few dosen't understand it yet... Oh wel, at least he is in prison now, and wil be there for a long, long time... more than posible for the rest of his life..
Dicloticna
Posteritatis
(18,807 posts)Stella_Artois
(860 posts)4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)all the experts are wasting their time on the internet rather than solving real problems.
fascisthunter
(29,381 posts)Diclotican
(5,095 posts)dipsydoodle
I was just to post a link myself - but you got me there..
I hope he will just go away - into the mist as other who have doing horrible crimes been arrested, funded guilty and then put in a prison.. He will never be a free man again - ha can, and should be hold in a prison cell even after 21 year behind walls.. He have shown clearly that he will never be able to be integrated into society again. And he have also shown no remorse what so ever for what he did.. He is one of the few who should never be given a chance to live in society again as a free man.. I believe in rehabilitation on almost everyone who have doing crime - but I doubt mr Breivik would integrate again.. And I also fear, that he could do the same as he did a year ago if he ever get a chance to do it...
The court might not have given him the stemple of a madman - but you have to be mad, to do what he did.. No normal person really is thinking in this circles of the necessary of bombing and murdering over 80 innocent people, many young ones.. No normal thinking person is willing to do what he did... And planned for 9 whole years under the radar no less..
The fact is - if he was to be given freedom, after more than 21 year behind bars - it will be a very dangerous task to relocate him to a place where he is not known.. Norway is a very little country, just 5 million strong and most people tend to know who live where.. If he was to be given freedom, he had to be relocated to a area of Norway where no one else wanted to live.. Like say at Bjørneøya, in the middle of the artic ocean.. At the moment it is just an automatic weather station on the iceland - and now and then, in the summer mounts some artic scientific studies there, but for the most part, a rather desolate place of our kingdom.. Another place is in the middle of nowhere in Troms - maybe in the vicinity of ta infamous military camp who thousands of soldiers have been over the last 70 year (It was build by the germans in 1944, and the Norwegian army took it over when the war ended, and it is said to be one of the coldest, most mosquito infested places in the whole of Norway - and a place where you really is in the grip of the army, as the biggest city is a hour by a bumpy road to Tromsø, who also have an airport.. ) He might be able to live somewhat normal in that area of Norway - but not any near the civilization he wanted to rule over...
And I suspect some would go to a length to make sure he would not live for long, if he ever was to given freedom.. He is a hated man in Norway - and I suspect some even wanted to do time - if they had the chance to kill Breivik, that be in prison or on the outside... He is to be kept in a special "Prison inside the prison" and it would take a long time before he would be able to communicate to anyone else in the prison he will live possible the rest of his life in..
Diclotican
dipsydoodle
(42,239 posts)Always good to see your input.
Personally I doubt he will ever be freed and the less publicity, on which he thrived , he gets in the future the better.
Diclotican
(5,095 posts)dipsydoodle
Thank you
I hope he will never be a free man - and I also guess now as the dust can settle - he will be less in the public eye than he have been to this day.. He got his day in court, and got the maximum penalty possible under Norwegian law - 21 year behind bars.. Or a minimum of 10 year.. He will never be a free man again.. It have been unanimous in every party in our Parliament that he will possible never again regain his freedom - from the far left - to the conservatives (we doesn't really have a far right party in Norway, even when the Progress Party tend to put their feet into the far right pound now and then) was pretty clear about it, that to free Breivik would be a impossibility.. And that it also would be against what people believe to be just for the crimes he did...
And I suspect that he would be some of a "hot potato" even after 21 year in prison - or 30 year - or even after 35-40 year, that man will be a hot potato no one will touch.. Government would have to leave offices if he was pardoned...
Diclotican
geckosfeet
(9,644 posts)Slide some food under the door a few times a day and let the world heal, but remain vigilant.
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)All the prison time in the world, does not bring back the innocent lives he so callously took. Coward.
Frustratedlady
(16,254 posts)He is sane, but the sentence is insane.
Tx4obama
(36,974 posts)ellisonz
(27,711 posts)The maximum determinate penalty is 21 years imprisonment, but only a small percentage of prisoners serve more than 14 years. Prisoners will typically get unsupervised parole for weekends etc. after serving ⅓ of their sentence (a maximum of 7 years) and can receive early release after serving ⅔ of their sentence (a maximum of 14 years). In 2008, to fulfill its requirements under the Rome Statute, Norway created a new maximal penalty of 30 years for crimes against humanity.[1]
The indeterminate penalty, called "containment" (Norwegian: forvaring), is set at 21 years imprisonment, and the prisoner is required to serve at least 10 years before becoming eligible for parole. If the prisoner is still considered dangerous after serving the original sentence, the prisoner can receive up to five years additional containment. If the additional time is served, and the offender is still considered dangerous, a prisoner can continue to receive up to five years additional containment, and this, in theory, could result in actual life imprisonment. "Containment" is used when the prisoner is deemed a danger to society and there is a great chance of committing violent crimes in the future.[2] However, the offender can be paroled or released at any time if it is determined that the offender is no longer a danger to society.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_imprisonment_in_Norway
He will be old and senile before he ever is released.
Diclotican
(5,095 posts)ellisonz
It is kind of what I have tried to explain now and then - but you did it with better words
He will be a old man before he ever was to step out of as a free man.. Even then I doubt he will live for long, as some out there will have a grudge against that man as long as they live.. And possible will chance a time in prison if they was able to murder him...
I doubt he ever will be given his freedom back. Mostly because he have shown no remorse what so ever for what he did.. And it doesn't look like he will be able to grow up to a point, where he IS able too show remorse either.. Something really got screwed up when he was young - something so wrong that the best way to "care" for him, is behind closed doors - for the rest of his natural born life...
In a way I am glad we doesn't have death penalty in Norway..
Diclotican
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)...they will not seek vengeance against him. I think they rather pity him. They understand violence only begets violence. They have the appropriate response to such outrages: love and compassion. I only wish that we in the United States would so nobly construct our laws rather than continuing the pathetic parade that is our criminal justice system.
May the victims rest in peace, and may their families take solace in the fact that their sacrifice has exposed the horrific nature of these fascists once again to Western Europe. They are done politically for another century...doomed to the fantasies of those on the fringe. Amen.
Diclotican
(5,095 posts)ellisonz
To be honest I doubt anyone will go out to kill him, even after say 30 or so year in a prison.. Somehow I think most Norwegians will pity the man - but not accept him in our midst.. One thing is to pity the man - but another thing is to accept him into our neighborhood and our homes.. What he did was horrible - we have never experienced anything like he did in our modern history. Even the germans, when they occupied the country, was not acting out like this - and the germans was not exactly kindly to Norwegians under the war (but compared to other nations they might have been seeing as kindly) .
What he did will be remembered for a a long time - the victims will maybe now finally be able to sleep in peace - and the many families of the victims will be able to go forward with their lives, now as the worst mass murderer Norway have ever had - is in prison for the rest of his natural life..
And our country will come out of this stronger committed to democracy and "openness" as our prime minister put it, just hours after the horrible attack on us all. Our system is stronger than it looks, and I just hope we can make it possible to protect the government better, without the negatives, like more difficult to have an open dialog with the government agencies.. One of the hallmark of Norway have been the possibility to talk directly to our public servants - and that our government offices have been as open as possible.. Until 2011 it was even possible to walk into the lobby of the highest offices in Norway and talk directly the different government officials, and you could talk to the different ministers if you choose to do it.. I just hope this freedom, and respect from both sides is not lost, in the new security that I believe will be build into the new offices when they are repaired. It took just minutes to blow it all up (sort of) but it will take years to rebuild, and to build new security into important offices..
We may had lost something in the proses from 2011 and today - but I do believe we still have our core values intact - and with luck we will be as we was - a few year down the road. Norway is a country who can "take it". We might mourn our dead and wounded - and we will possible be in a state of shock for a long time, but at least the country for the most part, is level handed and will not let this type of things end up in a more repressive state...
And the extreme right - is still on the fringes of the society - and will be there for a long, long time.. If anything Breivik did, he show how violent the extreme right can be sometimes... And the necessarily to keep an eye on this type of groups.
Diclotican
exboyfil
(17,865 posts)Ted Bundy? He could easily be a model prisoner - full of remorse and guilt. Maybe a psychologist could detect the duplicity. Jeffrey Dahmer could probably also pull something like this off (he was a model prisoner until he got murdered).
This type of sentence is kind of like what we try to do with sexual predators in this country. It leaves considerable judgement to the organization making this decision. Could you justify holding someone even with a model prison record?
ellisonz
(27,711 posts)...they are not willing to accept their potential to forgive. The Norwegian laws are very sensible and if I remember correctly their recidivism rates are markedly lower than ours. Let's face it: we Americans are far too wrapped up in our own paranoia's to limit our Draconian prison system and put some faith in our own judgment.
exboyfil
(17,865 posts)would never be rehabilitated. On the other hand it probably does not make sense to keep people like Manson's women behind bars especially when they are dying of something like cancer.
At the end of the day judgement is still involved even under our system (ie governors and pardons). Here is a list of murderers who murdered again (http://www.wesleylowe.com/repoff.html)
ProudToBeBlueInRhody
(16,399 posts)....it's that we wouldn't forgive ourselves if someone was released to kill again.
Exultant Democracy
(6,594 posts)absurdly low in comparison to the US system. If our first concern was the safety and well being of our people we would focus on rehabilitation and prevention, rather then punishment.
ProudToBeBlueInRhody
(16,399 posts)Do you believe Ted Bundy could be rehabilitated? Do you think the same of Brevik? Two different types of psychos, but both I think beyond all bounds of saving.
Posteritatis
(18,807 posts)ProudToBeBlueInRhody
(16,399 posts)But there are some here who apparently still wring their hands about Bundy.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)advocate the death penalty, but he should never be released because he will never change and will likely end up continuing up where he picked off. I have no empathy or compassion for that piece of trash. What he did is heinous and inexcusible. Personally, it wouldn't bother me if he was killed in prison. But we'll just have to wait to see how this plays out and how the Norwegian people react to it.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,360 posts)I would always be suspicious of anything he ever says or does, and I think most people would be too.
vankuria
(904 posts)Sentenced to 20 years to life for the killing of John Lennon was recently denied parole for the 7th time. He has a pristine prison record however was denied parole because, " release at this time would greatly undermine respect for the law and tend to trivialize the tragic loss of life which you caused as a result of this heinous, unprovoked, violent, cold, calculated crime".
Thankfully, he'll never see the light of day.
Not per say,
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/per_se
dipsydoodle
(42,239 posts)and don't call me Percy.
Lars77
(3,032 posts)They have done so since the beginning to make us look like naive idiots and i think that in a case like this it's extremely rude and insensitive.
The maximum possible sentence is 21 year but they know that we have provisions saying we can keep people locked up for as long as we want if a court determines people are too dangerous to be let out.
It's obvious that this applies to this guy. He will never, ever get out.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)Since he thinks he'll be the inspirational icon of his "movement", hoping to spark more massacres in other countries...
Lars77
(3,032 posts)And he gets letters from all over the world supporting him, and recently the Norwegian police got threats from someone identifying themselves as "second in command".
Breivik has basically laid out the framework for someone to come after him and do it again, that is his goal. It reminds me of the Rote Armee Fraktion, where the first generation terrorists did not know who the second and third generation were.
He also has supporters in the US. So this shit may not be over.
Posteritatis
(18,807 posts)ellisonz
(27,711 posts)Anders Behring Breivik awaited his sentencing in an Oslo court on Friday. Odd Andersen/Agence France-Presse Getty Images
Lars77
(3,032 posts)He's not a nazi, he is in fact a zionist. A lot of right wingers have in a weird way figured that Jews are ok because they are fighting arabs. He also identified himself as a christian.
Nostradammit
(2,921 posts)"Breivik was also a member of a Swedish neo-Nazi internet forum called Nordisk, according to Expo, a Swedish group monitoring far-right activity."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14259989
Lars77
(3,032 posts)There seems to be a split in the neo Nazi movements. I guess they figured that jews qualifies as white in the face of an enemy with a darker complexion.
Either way they're scum.
Nostradammit
(2,921 posts)http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3551269,00.html
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)the only reason they support Israel is that's where they think all Jews should go - leave their homes and go to one place - makes us much more easy to kill.
Nostradammit
(2,921 posts)Jeneral2885
(1,354 posts)Not a swipe againist the Norwegian justice system but this is what is really pro-life.
ProfessionalLeftist
(4,982 posts)...The American Taliban.
Most psychopaths are not considered "insane" - and they're not by formal definition of the word. They are fully in touch with reality, not psychotic. They just have NO conscience.
Festivito
(13,452 posts)The sentence seems light at first, but to understand the disconnect this one man represents can mean stopping someone else from doing this.
To resolve the ideological differences with this one man can lead to communicate better with others of this ilk in the near future.
And, should he fail to comply with attempting to understand, or should we not be able to understand this disconnect, he should then remain a threat to society and not be released.
At least they try to understand, learn and resolve. We don't. We just punish, call it justice and then we callously walk away not saving others when we know we could.
Response to dipsydoodle (Original post)
Post removed
Lars77
(3,032 posts)Care to elaborate on that?
2ndAmForComputers
(3,527 posts)(By the way: predictable profile stats are predictable.)
harun
(11,348 posts)Their current sentencing is far too leniant for people like this.
Lars77
(3,032 posts)And we are to trust what is 'just' from opinion from country with highest incarceration rate in world, judicial system de facto, if not de jure, based on the idea of revenge, and generally considered barbarian in both attitude and practice.
Lars77
(3,032 posts)The 21 year sentence is just the base. All it takes is a judge ruling him unfit to join society and he will be kept locked up.
And yeah that will happen.
Burma Jones
(11,760 posts)Those are probably the biggest factors in our incarceration rate.......
harun
And I honesty doesn't think americans could try to "lecture" we in Norway when it come to our Justice system - it works for us - and most people leave prison as better persons... The maximum penalty under Norwegian law IS 21 year - but as I have tried to explain, and others have doing true wikipedia links - we can hold people also after they are had their 21 year behind bars in a prison system if the society at large mean them to be a danger to them self - or to others. And for some reason I doubt Breivik will be given his freedom even after 21 year behind prison wall. I hope they will hold him in prison, either to he is not a danger to himself or to others, that means to old to be any danger.. Or that he is dead or in a hospital at the end of his time.. Our system is maybe not perfect - but I would rather sit the rest of my natural life in a cell in Norway, than in the US where half the prison population have mental defects - and where rape and murder of prisoners is a every day accurance... And where even Prison Guards are into drug rings who supply the cartels with drug inside the prison...
But I guess, building great prisons, who hold 10 percent at your population in shackles at all times is better. In that think, you are worse than both Russia and China - and put people behind bars on a far lover bar than most european nations Will ever do. If anything, it is the US who could learn one or two things about treating their prisoners from other corners of the world.. Then the fallback from the criminals might aslo bli less than it is today...
Diclotican
harun
(11,348 posts)I won't defend it. Just thought the families deserve more justice than this. The current law is the law there though.
If Norway is satisfied with this, to them their system to us ours.
harun
I guess you are right - but to be sure about one thing.. Persons like Breivik will never se the freedom they want - even after 21 year in a prison... He will be kept in prison as long as he is a danger to himself - or to others - and I also suspect that it will as long as he live, as he have never seen any remorse what so ever over the killings - and even called them "justified"..
We have a system based on the assumption that everyone deserve to go out of prison, when their time in the prison system is over - even murderers deserve a second chance to get their life straight.. It might sound alien to many in america, but we still do believe in the idea that everyone after served sentence deserve a chance to get life together - even if it hurts..
But in the case of mr Breivik i do not believe in the possibility of him coming back to the community, i somehow doubt he will ever show any remorse for what he did - and therefore he can legally be kept in a prison for as long as our system find it nessesary... Our Justice system might not practice life without parole - or the infamous death penalty..
Diclotican
EX500rider
(10,849 posts)Try 0.743%
"As of 2009, the incarceration rate was 743 per 100,000 of national population (0.743%)."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_incarceration_rate#cite_note-2
Diclotican
(5,095 posts)EX500rider
Still - it is worse than most other nations do - and your prisons looks like they lack a whole of the "reform" minded ideas that once was the hallmark of americans prison system.. You know, at one time the prison system in the US was something to admire and to try to do in most of Europe...
Diclotican
tama
(9,137 posts)"The United States has the highest documented incarceration rate in the world (743 per 100,000 population), Russia has the second highest rate (577 per 100,000), followed by Rwanda (561 per 100,000).[8] As of year-end 2009 the USA rate was 743 adults incarcerated in prisons and jails per 100,000 population.[4][8] At year-end 2007 the United States had less than 5% of the world's population[29] and 23.4% of the world's prison and jail population (adult inmates).[9]"
tama
Then I stand corrected - thank you
Diclotican
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)Brevik will never see the light of day.
But in the US, we have thousands of people doing more time than him that didn't kill anybody.
We also have states going broke trying to care for prisons full of geriatric offenders.
And we have the world's highest imprisonment rate. And the world's highest actual number of prisoners.
The US should get to work on enacting just sentencing laws.
fishwax
(29,149 posts)Posteritatis
(18,807 posts)You do know what that is, I assume.
GEORGE PARKER
(2 posts)For a person to gloat and grin all over his face when arrested and say that he shot and blew up dozens of people because he wanted to save his country from Muslim immigration is clearly insane.
Breivik is a raving megalomaniac who simply wants attention.
He should have been given none but immediately removed from the scene, certified insane and locked up.
Diclotican
(5,095 posts)GEORGE PARKER
I do think he is brutally mad - but at the same time not.. I think he is proud about what he did - and the worst is, he will have some followers here and there also... But they are small, very small, and I doubt he will be given any sympathy from the rest of the world...
But now, can the dust from this horrible action finally come to rest - and most Norwegians is just relieved he is out of the scene.. He might be in for a surprising as he will never be given freedom again!:.
Diclotican
Cleita
(75,480 posts)declared insane. The Norwegian tax paying citizens would have had to pay for him to be essentially coddled. This way at least he has to serve his time in a prison although their prisons aren't the hellholes ours are.
proud patriot
(100,715 posts)kinda puts into perspective how twisted Americans revenge need is , if i'm even feeling it.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)It's removing a dangerous person from society, and keeping him from ever being free to follow his dreams. Those kids won't get their lives back. Why should he?
DeSwiss
(27,137 posts)I'm sure I'm not qualified to say how much time someone should spend in prison for the murder of 77 people. But I'm fairly certain it should be more than an average of 3 months per life.
- He'll be 54 years of age when he is released.......
Cleita
(75,480 posts)I can't see how this would bring closure to the victim's families if he's out in a couple of decades. I really didn't consider him as not fully aware of what he was doing or text book insane. He's just another White Supremacist with a violent streak and should have been locked up permanently, but then I'm not Norwegian and look at things through our lens.
Posteritatis
(18,807 posts)Cleita
(75,480 posts)Back when California didn't have a death penalty, serial murderers were often given multiple life sentences just to make sure they never got out on parole. It seems if he behaves like a model prisoner and probably gets religion and regrets everything he did, he might get out since he might not be deemed a danger anymore, which the article states is their law. The only other way is if he dies before his sentence is up, but he's a fairly young man, so I doubt that.
Posteritatis
(18,807 posts)Cleita
(75,480 posts)I also said that their law stated he could be released, which in your words was if he was reformed. That is their law, isn't it? It seems he's literally gotten away with murder.
Posteritatis
(18,807 posts)former9thward
(32,071 posts)They have the look of typical American college dorms. I'm sure he will be quite comfortable there no matter how long he is in for.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)Loss of freedom is punishment enough. I hope they give them dirty jobs to do as well.
former9thward
(32,071 posts)The prison he is likely to be sent to (Halden - max security )has :
1) To ease the psychological burdens of imprisonment, the planners at Halden spent roughly $1 million on paintings, photography and light installations. According to a prison informational pamphlet, this mural by Norwegian graffiti artist Dolk "brings a touch of humor to a rather controlled space." Officials hope the art along with creative outlets like drawing classes and wood workshops will give inmates "a sense of being taken seriously."
2)"prisons mimic the outside world as much as possible to prepare them for freedom. At Halden, rooms include en-suite bathrooms with ceramic tiles, mini-fridges and flat-screen TVs."
3)"Every 10 to 12 cells share a kitchen and living room, where prisoners prepare their evening meals and relax after a day of work. None of the windows at Halden have bars.
4)"Security guards organize activities from 8:00 in the morning until 8:00 in the evening. It's a chance for inmates to pick up a new hobby, but it's also a part of the prison's dynamic security strategy: occupied prisoners are less likely to lash out at guards and one another. Inmates can shoot hoops on this basketball court, which absorbs falls on impact, and make use of a rock-climbing wall, jogging trails and a soccer field."
5)"There's also a recording studio with a professional mixing board. In-house music teachers who refer to the inmates as "pupils," never "prisoners" work with their charges on piano, guitar, bongos and more. Three members of Halden's security-guard chorus recently competed on Norway's version of American Idol. They hope to produce the prison's first musical starring inmates later this year."
6)"Halden's architects preserved trees across the 75-acre site to obscure the 20-ft.-high security wall that surrounds the perimeter, in order to minimize the institutional feel and, in the words of one architect, to "let the inmates see all of the seasons." Benches and stone chessboards dot this jogging trail."
7)"The prison's exterior features earthy brown hues that help it blend in with the surrounding woodlands. Inside, however, the walls explode with color. Halden hired an interior decorator who used 18 different colors to create a sense of variety and stimulate various moods. A calming shade of green creates a soothing atmosphere in the cells, while a vivid orange brings energy to the library and other working areas. A two-bedroom guesthouse, where inmates can host their families overnight, includes a conjugal room painted a fiery red."
Read more: http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1989083,00.html#ixzz24U7Z7oL6
Cleita
(75,480 posts)I think removal from mainstream society is sufficient. You don't have to be barbarians about treating other humans, even criminal humans, with some compassion. But as I said, I hope they get dirty jobs. They aren't free to travel or do many of the things free people do. I don't know what their policy is about conjugal visits, but meeting women probably has been taken out of their lives as well.
former9thward
(32,071 posts)So that is covered. Reading the article I doubt anyone gets "dirty jobs".
Cleita
(75,480 posts)I thought the sewage treatment plant for the nearby towns or cities should be located on the prison grounds with the prisoners as the workers at the plant. Just a reminder of why they are there.
Diclotican
(5,095 posts)former9thward
There Time have it wrong - he will be put at Ila fengsel, a prison more suited to the needs to protect others from the inmates - they have already rebuild a wing of the prison - to be able to keep Breivik closed off from other inmates, to the sum of over 2 million Norwegian kroners - and I somehow suspect they would not have rebuild a whole wing, if he was not to be in the prison for a long time.. He might end up at Halden - if he is not a direct danger to himself anymore.. But for the time being he will be in Ila prison - where he would be kept under a tight regime - for a couple of years at least...
But most of our prison system is indeed based on the idea that the inmates is to be kept there, reform, and then be allowed out again after they have finished their time... Even though I doubt Breivik will be given any freedom as long as some can remember what he did
Diclotican
former9thward
(32,071 posts)You may disagree.
Diclotican
(5,095 posts)former9thward
I must admit - I have being in the circles myself, to find out if in some horrible situations, the death penalty is the only way to truly make a statement out of persons like Breivik.. But I for the most part believe in our justice system, even when I might disagree with it.. And a survey given just hours after Breivik was sentenced show that 9 out of 10 Norwegians is in agreement with his 21 year behind a prison wall - so it looks like most Norwegians is content with the idea of give him at least 21 year in prison...
Diclotican
Posteritatis
(18,807 posts)Now could all you ignorant morons jumping on the "OMG HE'S NOT SENTENCED TO 573817 YEARS IT'S AN INSULT TO THE VICTIMS BY WHICH I MEAN MEEEEE" bandwagon please stare at that quote for awhile?
If he gets out before he dies of old age it will be because the state will have deemed him reformed. If that happens, great. If it doesn't, he's going to die behind bars.
Now put away your half-baked kneejerks and come back to realitytown.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)That's the problem. Those kids will never get their lives back, neither should he. Sorry to be so hard nosed about this but some people really need to pay for what they did.
Lars77
(3,032 posts)We have the laws on the books needed to keep him locked up anyway, and that is how it will be. I don't think many people understand that these kinds of things don't happen very often over here. He is the most hated man since Vidkun Quisling and he will be in jail for life. No judge is going to believe that he is reformed, not in a million years. Not with that collection of internet conspiracy theories he calls a manifest.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)I just hope Norwegians get the justice they deserve and they know best how to handle what life hands them.
ProudToBeBlueInRhody
(16,399 posts)So, what's the point of the sentence if you can just make the exception "OH...THIS guy is different.....HE won't be getting out." Doesn't that seem to go against the point of equal justice?
I see nothing wrong with the idea of sentencing him to 21 years for each killing. Why is that so outrageous? Seems to me that would be equal justice rather than putting on a legal dog and pony show 21 years from now.
Posteritatis
(18,807 posts)I'd love to see just one instance of that phrase that wasn't followed by a straw man of some sort.
Norwegian law has a codified maximum length prison term that someone can be sentenced to for any particular crime.
At the end of that time, a court can determine if the prisoner has not been rehabilitated and is at high risk to reoffend. If he is, they do the smart thing and keep him in for awhile longer, and repeat the process.
This is the exact opposite of what so many people in this thread seem to think is happening with that prison sentence. Everyone who claims he's getting an abbreviated term after which he'll be out on the streets to kill again is, by this point, trying, struggling, striving to ignore an often-mentioned fact about that country's criminal law.
Many nations have this policy in place for high-risk offenders.
This is not a new thing.
This is not an unusual thing.
This is not specific to Breivik.
This is not a policy created in the wake of his crimes to fill a hole in the country's criminal law.
I totally fail to see what's so goddamned hard to understand about any of that, especially since news articles have been discussing the Norwegian sentencing system at sufficient length since the day of the original shootings that I figured even the standard American picosecond attention span with regards to foreign countries wouldn't be able to filter it out entirely.
ProudToBeBlueInRhody
(16,399 posts)All I'm saying is he gets 21 years....then apparently he's going to be held to a higher standard to make sure he doesn't get out. Doesn't that go against the wonderful fairness of the system you are trumpeting as superior?
Hey I hope so. Hope he fucking rots. You'll hear no complaint from me. Fuck him.
FraDon
(518 posts)clearly GUILTY and INSANE
tama
(9,137 posts)that we are suffering from collective insanity. His crimes and testimony speak of the same insanity that nation states and "national security" follow and express. He mass murdered close to hundred individuals. US mass murdered millions in Iraq and Afganistan and still continues to do so. Numbers don't matter, what is essential is acting out of fear in both cases, to prevent this or that illusory external threat from happening.
tama
(9,137 posts)I ask this not to keep on blame-gaming US or any government committing mass murders for political reasons and out of fear, but to ask those who are now accusing Norway of being too lenient and demanding more severe punishments, how to relate to crimes of governments (and the collective insanity they express?), in terms of revenge, punishment, chance of forgiveness, healing, personal responsibility and moving on?
suffragette
(12,232 posts)"I am very relieved and happy about the outcome," said Tore Sinding Bekkedal, who survived the Utoya shooting. "I believe he is mad, but it is political madness and not psychiatric madness. He is a pathetic and sad little person."
This seems both on point and consistent with Norway's response as a whole. Throughout, they have been very mindful of responding in a manner that will not allow Breivik the aggrandizement he wanted and that would not alter the tenets of inclusiveness and justice they value as a society.
They did not respond with the fear he desired nor with rapid changes to laws to add overbearing and onerous security layers to their society or alter their justice system. Breivik would likely have enjoyed a move to police state type society - they denied him this.
Instead they confronted Breivik and those who share his beliefs by standing together and expressing unflinching support of their values and beliefs.
A great example of this is when Norwegians gathered together in April to sing "Children of the Rainbow":
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/apr/26/thousands-sing-anders-breivik-hates
[link:http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2012/apr/26/thousands-sing-song-breivik-despises-video|
GEORGE PARKER
(2 posts)Breivik will never be released. His 21 year sentence is only the first instalment of a life-imprisonment.
What I would like to know, however, is he how he managed to get away with hiding his madness, bearing in mind that he is uniquely stark raving.