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DonViejo

(60,536 posts)
Fri Jun 22, 2018, 10:13 AM Jun 2018

AP Poll: 85% Think Presidents Shouldn't Pardon Themselves

Source: Talking Points Memo/AP


By STEVE PEOPLES and Emily Swanson | June 22, 2018 9:34 am

NEW YORK (AP) — Even in an era of deep political division, Democrats and Republicans agree presidents should not pardon themselves. And if the nation’s chief executive ever does so, majorities of Americans in both parties believe Congress should impeach that president.

Those are the findings of a new poll from The Associated Press-NORC Center for Public Affairs Research, which comes as federal authorities continue their months-long criminal investigation into Russia’s intervention in the 2016 election and the actions of President Donald Trump’s campaign.

Already, prosecutors have charged four Trump campaign associates — including the one-time campaign chairman, Paul Manafort — with felonies as part of the probe, and special counsel Robert Mueller wants to question the Republican president directly.

Trump raised the possibility of a self-pardon on Twitter earlier in this month, writing: “As has been stated by numerous legal scholars, I have the absolute right to PARDON myself, but why would I do that when I have done nothing wrong?”



Read more: https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/poll-americans-presidential-self-pardon

17 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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AP Poll: 85% Think Presidents Shouldn't Pardon Themselves (Original Post) DonViejo Jun 2018 OP
Even Republicans are strongly against the idea NewJeffCT Jun 2018 #1
I'm disappointed its only 85%. marble falls Jun 2018 #2
There are a certain number of people who think the earth is flat, too. shraby Jun 2018 #5
Logical extension of the question...if the President commits mass murder can he pardon himself? Fred Sanders Jun 2018 #3
All Presidents... relogic Jun 2018 #7
Pardoning yourself is like going to a court where you bucolic_frolic Jun 2018 #4
Only 56% repugs.. relogic Jun 2018 #6
They aren't thinking rationally. Sophia4 Jun 2018 #9
no worries AZ8theist Jun 2018 #11
Ours is a system of checks and balances. Sophia4 Jun 2018 #8
Nixon already knew he couldn't pardon himself FakeNoose Jun 2018 #16
Be interesting to see the poll question empedocles Jun 2018 #10
This discussion of... relogic Jun 2018 #12
Trump should pardon himself right after the last primary. lagomorph777 Jun 2018 #13
Results of my poll: axm Jun 2018 #14
I wonder how the 15% who think it's OK kacekwl Jun 2018 #15
That 15 percent are the true, deep down facists who are thinking that Trump will Stuart G Jun 2018 #17

NewJeffCT

(56,828 posts)
1. Even Republicans are strongly against the idea
Fri Jun 22, 2018, 10:20 AM
Jun 2018

maybe they're thinking of past and future Democratic presidents?

Fred Sanders

(23,946 posts)
3. Logical extension of the question...if the President commits mass murder can he pardon himself?
Fri Jun 22, 2018, 10:22 AM
Jun 2018

Would it be one pardon for each deceased?

Would Trump Party denizens still be 40% NOT to remove the mass killer from office??

Who are these people??

relogic

(155 posts)
7. All Presidents...
Fri Jun 22, 2018, 10:34 AM
Jun 2018

commit mass murder using various methods quietly and vociferously. In actuality they’ve had enormous alactrity bestowed upon them in and out of office to exonerate themselves of their atrocious deeds.

Pardoning ain’t that necessary when it comes right down to it. What a lawless quagmire we find ourselves in.

bucolic_frolic

(43,180 posts)
4. Pardoning yourself is like going to a court where you
Fri Jun 22, 2018, 10:24 AM
Jun 2018

are the judge of your own case. Everyone knows the outcome is rigged. Even you.

relogic

(155 posts)
6. Only 56% repugs..
Fri Jun 22, 2018, 10:29 AM
Jun 2018

think if he does pardon himself he deserves impeachment. That is troubling that 40% of them are fine of course with having such a dictator in charge of the world.

85% say no pardoning power for himself-duh.

Like, what do laws mean if anything if they can be brushed aside and deemed useless because I declare I am like god. If I say I’m moral and unimpeachable because I say I am.

 

Sophia4

(3,515 posts)
9. They aren't thinking rationally.
Fri Jun 22, 2018, 10:42 AM
Jun 2018

To test a legal rule, you have to apply it to various possible situations.

If the president were to murder his wife or one of his children or a cabinet member, or a lover, would they still think he could pardon himself

Probably not. So that means that the rule is that the president cannot pardon himself since we have no way to make an exception to a general rule that the president can pardon himself.

A law applies in every situation unless exceptions are in writing. That's how it usually works. If I can't jaywalk, then I can't jaywalk anywhere unless specific exceptions to the law against jaywalking have been established.

A law applies in virtually all situations. The judge does not apply it according to his or her personal whim. Not in our country anyway. The whimsical application of the law does happen, but that is not generally how our law works.

That is what it means to have the rule of law. Giuliani knows this very well.

AZ8theist

(5,475 posts)
11. no worries
Fri Jun 22, 2018, 11:04 AM
Jun 2018

Those numbers would flip to 99 to 1 for impeachment if Hillary (or any Dem for that matter) were president..

 

Sophia4

(3,515 posts)
8. Ours is a system of checks and balances.
Fri Jun 22, 2018, 10:37 AM
Jun 2018

If a president cannot be indicted while serving, the courts cannot check him. If a president can pardon himself, the courts again cannot check him.

That leaves only the Congress to check and balance our president.

I don't think that balances our government. It leaves it out of balance.

I think that the courts also have to have some ability to check and then balance the executive branch.

What if a president committed murder? What if some president murdered someone close to him?

Could he then pardon himself? I think not. The rule of law has to be consistent. If a president cannot pardon himself for the murder of someone close to himself, then he cannot pardon himself for other crimes.

FakeNoose

(32,645 posts)
16. Nixon already knew he couldn't pardon himself
Fri Jun 22, 2018, 01:47 PM
Jun 2018

He expressly made the deal with Gerald Ford to pardon him as his first act as soon as he was sworn in as the new President. The news didn't hit the media until after Nixon had left the White House and split from Washington. If he believed he could have pardoned himself, he would have at least tried it.

Cheeto can fuss and sputter all he wants, but the law is the law. It's already been decided by precedent.

empedocles

(15,751 posts)
10. Be interesting to see the poll question
Fri Jun 22, 2018, 10:46 AM
Jun 2018

was 'If the president could 'legally' pardon himself, would it be acceptable for presidents to pardon themselves.'
the poll responses might be clearer and more useful.

relogic

(155 posts)
12. This discussion of...
Fri Jun 22, 2018, 11:10 AM
Jun 2018

pardoning power seems empty of relevance in our recent administrations’ history. Particularly now under the illegitimate one whose name is devastation. They and their league seem to have unaccountable latitude to plow over any laws, ethics, felonies-you name it before our eyes with permission from their corrupt majority in Congress.

Pardoning seems unnecessary and only an exercise in legal speak.

lagomorph777

(30,613 posts)
13. Trump should pardon himself right after the last primary.
Fri Jun 22, 2018, 12:01 PM
Jun 2018

These numbers will force even RePutins to sit up and take notice.

Stuart G

(38,434 posts)
17. That 15 percent are the true, deep down facists who are thinking that Trump will
Fri Jun 22, 2018, 05:58 PM
Jun 2018

need to pardon himself if his plans fail..They are ones who will never change no matte what happens. I do think that 10 to 15 percent of moderate pukes would go against Trump when the truth comes out. They will admit the truth. They will say he is a crook. But that 15 to 20 percent..(my guess is many lied on this) will never leave Trump. never!! He is their leader.........."Sieg Heil"

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