GOP plan: No HS diploma? No unemployment check
This is one of the most ridiculous proposals I've ever seen.
http://bottomline.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/01/09/10075106-gop-plan-no-hs-diploma-no-unemployment-check
(snip)
Out of work and without a high school diploma? If youre collecting unemployment insurance, you may soon be out of luck.
As Congress returns from the holiday recess, one of the most pressing items on its agenda will the two-month extension of jobless benefits enacted late last month. The compromise deal, part of a two-month extension of a payroll tax cut, tabled debate on wider reforms to the unemployment insurance program.
Those reforms include shortening the length of time jobless workers can collect benefits and a provision that would require anyone collecting them to have a high school diploma or be enrolled in an adult education program working toward a General Educational Development, or GED, certificate.
If they implement this idiotic idea they need to make sure they pay every person without a diploma every single penny they've paid into the Unemployment INSURANCE program. There are people without a diploma who have been paying into UI for 40 - 50 years. These right wingers really are morons. They really make me sick.
Fearless
(18,421 posts)Speed8098
(1,655 posts)They don't even realize the people they would be alienating would be their own base.
Nihil
(13,508 posts)... is the fact that so many of those voting for them don't even realise that they *should* be
alienated by such behaviour but they are too ignorant/stupid/brainwashed to consider just
what is being said & done by "their" team ...
provis99
(13,062 posts)Wind Dancer
(3,618 posts)What do they think will happen to these people? They will not be able to buy the basics to stay alive, for Gawd's sake. I am starting to think these Repuke policies are designed for just that. Actually, I've thought that the case for a long time with all the programs they're trying to cut. GRRR!
gtar100
(4,192 posts)No shortage of ideas from them on hurting people. They will be our downfall if we don't take care of their dominance on power and media.
karynnj
(59,507 posts)the government will pay for the classes AND given them a stipend equal to what they would have received as unemployment benefits. In addition, I think the allowable "adult education" should be expanded beyond just a GED. If a person has been working at some trade, there programs could be created to include a combination of the basic math/English requirements and programs to enhance the skills they need for the type of work they want to return to or consider. The program should also include internships that could potentially lead to jobs or at least some additional job placement opportunities.
Even then, I agree with you, that they and their employers paid into unemployment insurance and if they want to take unemployment and look for a job without having a high school degree, then they should be allowed to.
However, a large percent of people out of work lack for nether education or job experience. There is a shortage of jobs.
sad sally
(2,627 posts)were advertising that unemployed people need not apply? This quickly ended when the EEOC started an investigation of discrimination. This smacks of the same.
#####
It describes a policy perhaps not discriminatory on its face - that has the effect of disproportionately screening out applicants in a legally protected group, said Barry Hartstein, an employment lawyer with Littler Mendelson, in Chicago.
One of the earliest cases involved a company that required a high school diploma, said Hartstein, who focuses on equal employment issues as a management lawyer. Forty years ago, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that requirement screened out African-Americans disproportionately because the percentage of black applicants who did not have high school diplomas was higher than that of white applicants.
The key is whether the job requirement is legitimate and justified by business necessity, Hartstein said.
The 54 representatives who complained to the EEOC noted the unemployment rate is higher among African Americans and Hispanics than whites. According to the most recent data available from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the jobless rate in February was 8 percent for whites, 15.3 percent for blacks and 11.6 percent for Hispanics. Overall, the U.S. jobless rate was 8.9 percent.
http://www.chron.com/business/sixel/article/Working-Getting-hired-is-easier-if-you-have-a-job-1686438.php?du
cstanleytech
(26,334 posts)towards gays for example by kicking them out the military and by denying them equal rights when it comes to marriage.
Roland99
(53,342 posts)perhaps there are states or municipalities that require it, though?
Rowdyboy
(22,057 posts)not employees. Regardless, workers pay enough in other taxes that they should be entitled to unemployment when out of work through no fault of their own. Instituting a "high school degree" requirement is just stupid punitive Republican bullshit like drug tests for welfare and food stamp recipients. Its legalized racism basically.
sofa king
(10,857 posts)Employees pay for it because employers immediately pass the costs on to the employees, in the form of lower wages, longer hours, fewer breaks, fewer perqs, fewer raises, a more hostile work environment, and so on.
What makes me curious about this scheme is the GOP relies entirely upon poorly-educated Americans to support them in the polls. The number of voters the Republicans actually represent is statistically nil.
The number of painfully ignorant voters who support the Republicans even though they represent interests which conflict with their own forms the voting "base" upon which the GOP depends.
But they're stupid, so maybe the GOP is banking that they won't understand until it's too late... which is a typical, but cynical, approach.
Speed8098
(1,655 posts)Please excuse my misspeak.
The subject matter just caused me to see red and my fingers worked faster then my brain.
I graduated however none of the generation before me did in my family and I suspect most families. It is so arrogant of these pieces of garbage to forget their heritage and once again try to piss on the poor and downtrodden.
I'll probably get flamed for this but I am one that believes there are too many college educated idiots in society today. Please don't misunderstand. I don't mean all college educated people are idiots, far from it. I mean garbage in, garbage out. If you have a mediocre high school student who attends college, usually a community college because they can't get accepted anywhere else, the end result is a mediocre college graduate who thinks they are smarter than those that did not attend college.
I see it in my industry daily. I am a specialty subcontractor who provides a service and product that, in most cases, has to follow specifications written by architects and get final approval from not only the architect, but a whole host of engineers, administrative people and others who know diddly squat about the product and service I provide. I am a commercial overhead door company.
Sounds pretty simple right? Overhead doors, they open, they close, they provide security, keep the cold out in the winter and the cool air in during the summer. Wrong, yep, I said wrong.
Due to the previously mentioned college educated idiots I now have to jump through hoops just to get a simple insulated service door approved, and once it IS approved and installed, it takes me forever (45 - 90 days) to get paid by the general contractor.
You see, some college educated idiot who writes the subcontracts decided to add a "pay when paid" clause, which in 95 out of 100 cases is a non binding clause, but if you fight it, they just move on to the next guy who isn't contract savvy and who will install this product for pennies.
The architect who, in most cases knows nothing about doors, decides to reinvent the wheel. The problem is they are making the wheel square but they don't want to hear that. These snot noses (I was hanging doors before most of them were even thought of) expect the manufacturer to completely retool their factory to satisfy their mistaken understanding of the functionality of an overhead door. What used to be a straight forward industry is now rife with unnecessary paperwork because some mediocre college graduate thinks he/she are smarter than those of us who have been doing this for 30+ years, not to mention they feel the need to justify their mere existence by generating more paperwork than NASA did to put a man on the moon in 1969.
Just to let you know, I work for all of the city agencies here in NY. The DEP, DSNY, DOS, FDNY, SCA, and Port Authority of NY & NJ to name a few. If you happen to go to one or more of the new local NY sports stadiums (not named on purpose) and you look up as you're getting your snack, soft drink, or your beer or you look around and see an overhead door, my company installed it. Due to the confidentiality agreement I signed I can tell you I am involved in the most high profile project in the world right now in NY, I just can't give you details.
I tell you this so you understand that I am not just some dumb door guy who doesn't know what I'm talking about.
I know I was somewhat condescending in my description of architects and I apologize to those architects that are truly professional and are not part of the group I've addressed here. There are some however as time goes on we are seeing less and less of them.
The bottom line of my rant is, not everyone is cut out to go to college. Somebody needs to provide those services which do not require a college education and if everyone goes to college, who is going to be left to do that? Who is going to work the assembly lines if manufacturing returns strong? Who is going to provide customer service? Who is going to collect our garbage? Who is going to drive our trucks? And the list goes on and on.
Sorry:
Kellerfeller
(397 posts)I completely agree that too many mediocre students go to college and get degrees that are relatively easy, have no market and do so with a mediocre GPA.
On the other hand, I've seen people on here who get upset when students are allowed to opt out of secondary education, for whatever reason.
Statistics show that those with HS diplomas or GEDs have a much better employment rate and overall lifetime income. Sure, some functions just fine without it and this wouldn't impact them. But for those who cannot find work, this would motivate them to pursue that GED since they
A) have some time to do it (unemployed)
B) can get benefits even if they are pursuing it, even if they haven't completed it.
mac56
(17,574 posts)It's naive to think that it is.
Kellerfeller
(397 posts)not realistic?
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Why is pursuing it necessary?
Kellerfeller
(397 posts)But it sure helps the person.
The unemployment rate for people without a high school diploma remains persistently high. Last month it was 13.2 percent.
http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2011/12/01/143016866/unemployment-falls-to-8-6-percent
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Getting as PhD and a Masters in molecular Biology helps too.
Kellerfeller
(397 posts)But a PhD costs more than $40.
And although you can work on your PhD on your own, no reputable school will grant you one doing it that way. There are plenty of ways to study for the GED for free at the library and online.
And the change in pay and unemployment changes more significantly for those with a diploma/GED.
mac56
(17,574 posts)And others had extremely bad experiences in learning settings.
Forcing them to do this is not realistic.
Some pegs are square and don't fit into round holes. One-size-fits-all doesn't.
Kellerfeller
(397 posts)the GED is setting the bar pretty low. If someone cannot pass it (with actually trying) there is a pretty good chance they will be receiving disability.
The vast majority of people I know who do not have a diploma/GED are perfectly capable. Of course there are a few exceptions as you described.
Again, education is helping the person out in the long run.
mac56
(17,574 posts)Not. For. Everybody.
Perhaps there is an empathy equivalency exam that you can take. I believe your results would be enlightening.
Kellerfeller
(397 posts)not for everybody. But pretty much everybody who is not already receiving disability.
mac56
(17,574 posts)And making sweeping generalizations.
I don't understand throwing UI recipients under the bus when they're already in a difficult place in life. Expecting them to jump through additional hoops just because they all SHOULD be able to do it. Telling them, "the sole, singluar reason you're unemployed is because you're too stupid," is extremely elitist and coarse.
In any case, I'm done with this.
Kellerfeller
(397 posts)Of course it is easier for some than others. I've tutored for inner city drop-outs to take the GED and I can't think of one who simply could not get a level of competency for it unless they simply gave it little effort.
But if they really cannot grasp the level of material on the GED, with really trying, then there job opportunities are going to remain very limited and there is not a lot we can do about it.
Speed8098
(1,655 posts)Since you said you've "tutored for inner city drop-outs" I just can't help myself. I apologize in advance.
"But if they really cannot grasp the level of material on the GED, with really trying, then there job opportunities are going to remain very limited and there is not a lot we can do about it."
Don't you really mean "their"? OK, flame away, I deserve it.
Still Blue in PDX
(1,999 posts)No flames here.
Kellerfeller
(397 posts)I do know the proper usage, sometime the old fingers and brain just don't cooperate. I also know to/too, effect/affect, no/know.
Heck, a lot of times I'll be thinking "and" and my stupid fingers type "of" or "is" or some other small word. I never have figured out how/why that happens. And it isn't just when I'm in a hurry.
Am I the only freak that happens to?
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)I haven't tutored inner city drop-outs but I have tutored immigrants in English, many of whom were 6th, 7th, 8th grade drop outs from schools in their home countries who are coming from severely disadvantaged backgrounds. While you'd think getting a GED is even harder for non-English speakers, the women I've helped are HUNGRY to pass the test and work damn hard. Two of the women were from Mexico where they didn't even have any school within 300 miles of their farms. They basically self-taught themselves. More than a few people I knew had to work right after finishing 8th grade to help support their families. One set of parents (they weren't my students) graduated high school at the same time as their eldest daughter! They were from Greece and knew absolutely NO English when they arrived. Within 6 years they had an excellent grasp of English. The picture of them with their oldest girl - all of them holding diplomas was thrilling. Especially considering the father had never gone beyond 5th grade! Their youngest daughter is best friends with my youngest daughter so I know their story very well.
I also believe getting a high school diploma or GED should be the basic educational standard we should try to attain for everyone. It helps their job situation enormously for one. And does some good things for their self-esteem as well.
While a GED is beyond reach for some, getting it is usually subsidized. You can usually do it while you are working, or looking for work. There are a LOT of community resources to help people reach this goal. Honestly, I'm not fussed about this Rethug proposal and think it should be up for debate and consideration. There's merit in it.
amyrose2712
(3,391 posts)It is designated SUI/SDI on our paychecks. I don't know the percentage. But we definitely pay partially into it.
WingDinger
(3,690 posts)Then they are DOOMED. And it will be soon.
renegade000
(2,301 posts)I think most actual Western europeans would think the Republicans are anti-social, right-wing lunatics
abelenkpe
(9,933 posts)maybe this will help them finally understand voting republican really isn't in their best interest?
LOL! No of course it wont!
Trillo
(9,154 posts)I can't say I've ever seen such a candidate on any ballot, but clearly, dropouts are an unrepresented group.
neverforget
(9,437 posts)How else to appeal to their crazy base?
Evasporque
(2,133 posts)FUcking brilliant.....
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)yellowcanine
(35,702 posts)It doesn't matter that someone may have had to drop out of school to get a job and help feed and clothe their younger siblings - for the GOP narrative one size fits all. If you are poor and uneducated, it is always YOUR fault. Since we know that all rich people are rich because they deserve to be, it stands to reason that all poor people are poor because they deserve to be poor. Certainly is simpler that way, isn't it?
mac56
(17,574 posts)nineteen50
(1,187 posts)Make birth control illegal, then kick anyone off unemployment that gets pregnant.
durablend
(7,465 posts)Lil Missy
(17,865 posts)Still Blue in PDX
(1,999 posts)I have to just wonder where they come up with these ideas. Once again, they take the term "double standard" to new levels.
indeed
unkachuck
(6,295 posts)....I see, a carrot and a stick, an incentive....
....I like carrots, sticks and incentives....how about no tax deductions for corporations until they've created new domestic jobs....this sort of works hand-in-hand with the unemployment incentive....
lonestarnot
(77,097 posts)unionworks
(3,574 posts)...who had no h.s. diploma, worked their ass off and were quite good at their jobs. Some of them weren't capable of getting one, but in the type of job it was, it. Was not necessary. The true end goal of the 1% is an enslaved populace of disposable labor. They want nazi germany here and now. And the time. To fight them is now.