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Poll_Blind

(23,864 posts)
Sun Sep 2, 2012, 12:49 PM Sep 2012

Netanyahu urges international "red lines" to stop Iran

Source: REUTERS

(Reuters) - Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu urged world powers on Sunday to set a "clear red line" for Tehran's atomic program that would convince Iran they were determined to prevent it from obtaining nuclear arms.

Netanyahu's remarks suggested a growing impatience with Israel's main ally, the United States, and other countries that have been pressing him to give diplomacy and sanctions more time to work and hold off on any go-it-alone strike on Iran. Recent heightened Israeli rhetoric has stoked speculation that Israel might attack Iran before the U.S. elections in November, believing that President Barack Obama would give it military help and not risk alienating pro-Israeli voters.

--snip--

General Martin Dempsey, chairman of the U.S. joint chiefs of staff, has suggested Washington would not be drawn into conflict with Iran should Israel attack.

"I don't want to be complicit if they choose to do it,"
Britain's Guardian newspaper quoted him on Friday as saying.

Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/02/us-iran-israel-idUSBRE88102R20120902



The second bolded sentence, above. Is there any other way to read it than:
"Benjamin Netanyahu may attempt to hold President Obama's chances of re-election hostage by starting an unnecessary war at a time which might politically force our President to go along with it."


I'm asking this seriously: How do you interpret that second bolded sentence in the article?

I've seen America convinced into supporting a war. I've seen American lied into supporting a war, lord knows. But I don't recall having lived long enough to see our government politically extorted into supporting a war.

That would be a new one on me.

And if that concept isn't concerning enough, it is almost unprecedented for the chairman of the U.S. joint chiefs of staff to go on record not once but twice to indicate he did not want to be "complicit" in such an attack at this time. His choice of words is equally telling. Dictionary.com defines "complicit" as "Involved with others in an illegal activity or wrongdoing."

What the fuck, exactly, is going on here?

PB
34 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Netanyahu urges international "red lines" to stop Iran (Original Post) Poll_Blind Sep 2012 OP
A ham handed attempt to intimidate the President of the USA is how I read it. byeya Sep 2012 #1
that's the way I see it too Sand Wind Sep 2012 #7
Tell Nut N Yahoo ALL aid is suspended tomorrow. Fuddnik Sep 2012 #2
Not concerned Did I Just Type This Sep 2012 #3
Ha ha! Suckers! Shadowflash Sep 2012 #4
I hope Obama thinks about the American public over the pro-Israeli voters. If not, he deserves to nanabugg Sep 2012 #5
More war? No thanks rachel1 Sep 2012 #6
All that Obama and Dempsey have to do is get on a secure line to Netanyahu, and say this: leveymg Sep 2012 #8
more : ''The secret reason for Netanyahu's timing on Iran war'' Sand Wind Sep 2012 #9
Or, this could just be more "nice cop-bad cop" posturing, and an attempt to provoke Iran into a leveymg Sep 2012 #10
Sounds like 11-dimensional chess. nt bananas Sep 2012 #18
Things can go very far wrong very quickly in the 12th-dimension. leveymg Sep 2012 #19
Yep, every additional dimension, it just adds to the complexity. bemildred Sep 2012 #25
Here's a few dipsydoodle Sep 2012 #11
What About Israel’s Nuclear Weapons? L0oniX Sep 2012 #12
Netanyahu sulphurdunn Sep 2012 #13
I agree with you on that one lovuian Sep 2012 #15
lol. Mosby Sep 2012 #24
About the same as I think sulphurdunn Sep 2012 #26
The Dempsey assasination attempt failed in Afghanistan lovuian Sep 2012 #14
The attack on Gen. Dempsey's plane was in August LongTomH Sep 2012 #29
Actually it is Israel that needs the redlines to stop it from war crimes and crimes against humanity on point Sep 2012 #16
This is similar to the 1980 election, when the Republicans made a deal with Iran bananas Sep 2012 #17
And the Israelis played nuclear blackmail with Nixon to resupply them in '73. Go figure. leveymg Sep 2012 #20
It sounds an awful lot like another "October Surprise" in the planning stage. LongTomH Sep 2012 #28
Dear Mr. Netanyahu, beware of Pakistan Rosa Luxemburg Sep 2012 #21
Pakistan wouldn't dare. India has its own stockpile of nuclear weapons pointed at Pakistan. Selatius Sep 2012 #31
How do you know that Pakistan has no known rockets? Rosa Luxemburg Sep 2012 #33
Because they would've test fired those rockets to ensure they actually could go that far. Selatius Sep 2012 #34
There's only 1 red line that matters agentS Sep 2012 #22
Don't forget the fundamentalists lurking in the background... defacto7 Sep 2012 #23
Bomb nuclear facilities Netanyahu NewYorkers Sep 2012 #27
No... The greatest problem begins defacto7 Sep 2012 #30
Israel has been trying to goat us into starting a war with Iran for awhile now davidpdx Sep 2012 #32
 

byeya

(2,842 posts)
1. A ham handed attempt to intimidate the President of the USA is how I read it.
Sun Sep 2, 2012, 12:55 PM
Sep 2012

Good for Obama for sending Gen Dempsey to make that speech that the Israeli's should understand.

 

Sand Wind

(1,573 posts)
7. that's the way I see it too
Sun Sep 2, 2012, 01:32 PM
Sep 2012

Some say that Netanyahu is afraid that because he disrespect Obama, that Obama will want to take his revenge if he win in november. And so Netanyahu want to attack before the election to implicate the USA.

 
3. Not concerned
Sun Sep 2, 2012, 01:14 PM
Sep 2012

Israel lacks the ability to do little more than anger the Iranians in an independent assault on the sovereign nation. President Obama has made it relatively clear (with actions not words) that he will not join in yet another over seas battle. The United States can not survive another financially draining war on the economy and reputation of our nation as a whole.

 

nanabugg

(2,198 posts)
5. I hope Obama thinks about the American public over the pro-Israeli voters. If not, he deserves to
Sun Sep 2, 2012, 01:25 PM
Sep 2012

lose and I would rather he put America first and lose than put the Israeli government first at the risk of more American lives and resources.

rachel1

(538 posts)
6. More war? No thanks
Sun Sep 2, 2012, 01:27 PM
Sep 2012

but of course only TPTP will decide on that.

It's sad that there are too many heartless and bloodthirsty freaks out there!

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
8. All that Obama and Dempsey have to do is get on a secure line to Netanyahu, and say this:
Sun Sep 2, 2012, 01:46 PM
Sep 2012

"Mr. Prime Minister - We must inform you in no uncertain terms that any unilateral attack on Iran by your country is contrary to the national interests of the United States, and will be taken as a hostile and aggressive act in violation of international law norms, forcing us to take immediate action to neutralize any and all military forces involved. I am delivering the same message to Tehran.

"The party that shoots first will be shot by us. This is not open to debate or question. That is all."

 

Sand Wind

(1,573 posts)
9. more : ''The secret reason for Netanyahu's timing on Iran war''
Sun Sep 2, 2012, 01:47 PM
Sep 2012
http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/the-secret-reason-for-netanyahu-s-timing-on-iran-war.premium-1.461300

Well it's the Haaretz, so...

But Netanyahu's personal interests are diametrically opposed to those of the country he leads.

In the United States, his expressed interest in attacking Iran is seen as part of his effort to bring about Obama's defeat. Americans fear Netanyahu's effort to drag the United States into war against its will, as well as attempts to raise gas prices as a means of kicking Obama out of the White House in November because of the economy. Even the attempt to extort another public statement from Obama - he intends to pledge once again to stop Iran - is seen as an effort to publicly humiliate him, which makes it difficult to issue such pledges.

In private conversations, Netanyahu has said there is nothing after Election Day, which falls on November 6. If Obama wins, Netanyahu says, he will take revenge for the overt efforts to defeat him and will prevent Netanyahu from attacking Iran. For this reason, and only this reason, Netanyahu must go on the offensive over Iran now - some reliable sources say he will probably do it during the Democratic National Convention in North Carolina next week - when the timing is the worst for Israel. That's the price of getting portrayed as being a member of the Romney-Netanyahu-Sheldon Adelson trinity.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
10. Or, this could just be more "nice cop-bad cop" posturing, and an attempt to provoke Iran into a
Sun Sep 2, 2012, 01:52 PM
Sep 2012

first aggressive act and cassus belli for a joint attack. Any Israeli first-strike will also be taken by Tehran as an act of war by the US.

That's the other possibility.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
19. Things can go very far wrong very quickly in the 12th-dimension.
Sun Sep 2, 2012, 09:56 PM
Sep 2012

That sort of game should not be played while running with sharp objects.

 

sulphurdunn

(6,891 posts)
13. Netanyahu
Sun Sep 2, 2012, 03:03 PM
Sep 2012

is a demented, war mongering psychopath who cares no more for the people of Israel than for the people of Iran or the United States. He may be even crazier than his counterpart in North Korea and is absolutely the most dangerous political leader on the planet today. He should be medicated and placed in an institution where he can be cared for and not allowed to harm himself or others.

lovuian

(19,362 posts)
15. I agree with you on that one
Sun Sep 2, 2012, 03:23 PM
Sep 2012

He has to be crazy if he wants Israel in WWIII

they would be wiped off the map

 

sulphurdunn

(6,891 posts)
26. About the same as I think
Mon Sep 3, 2012, 05:12 PM
Sep 2012

of most countries in general, more or less. Why? Is there something special about Israel? What exactly does my opinion of a national leader have to do with what I think about a country in general?

lovuian

(19,362 posts)
14. The Dempsey assasination attempt failed in Afghanistan
Sun Sep 2, 2012, 03:22 PM
Sep 2012

right after he told Netanhu "I don't want to be complicit if they choose to do it"

I think that had to tick off the US Military trying to kill Dempsey

bananas

(27,509 posts)
17. This is similar to the 1980 election, when the Republicans made a deal with Iran
Sun Sep 2, 2012, 03:54 PM
Sep 2012

The Republicans made a deal with Iran to hold the hostages to defeat Carter.

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
20. And the Israelis played nuclear blackmail with Nixon to resupply them in '73. Go figure.
Sun Sep 2, 2012, 10:02 PM
Sep 2012

Neither side exactly has a spotless record of trustworthiness and fair-play. With friends and enemies like these, trust no one.

LongTomH

(8,636 posts)
28. It sounds an awful lot like another "October Surprise" in the planning stage.
Mon Sep 3, 2012, 05:27 PM
Sep 2012

I would not be surprised to learn that there has been a back channel communication line set up between Netanyahu and the Israeli right wing and the Romney campaign.

Rosa Luxemburg

(28,627 posts)
21. Dear Mr. Netanyahu, beware of Pakistan
Sun Sep 2, 2012, 10:06 PM
Sep 2012

I think if you attack Iran, Pakistan (which has nuclear weapons) will join in. Russia will also support these countries. Basically they are all loonies so better not light the fuse.

Selatius

(20,441 posts)
31. Pakistan wouldn't dare. India has its own stockpile of nuclear weapons pointed at Pakistan.
Tue Sep 4, 2012, 07:48 AM
Sep 2012

India would know fairly quickly whether any of those atomic weapons are being moved around. India has spent large amounts of resources monitoring the nuclear warheads that Pakistan possesses. The Pakistanis would risk triggering a response from India if they began moving their nuclear warheads around, and if it got down to it, India may actually attempt to destroy those warheads if they can catch those warheads out in the open as opposed to being stored in underground lockers like they are currently.

Also, Pakistan has no known rockets capable of reaching Israeli soil that could carry Pakistani nuclear weapons. Pakistan would have to move them by ground or by ship or even by air, which requires lots of men, and that amount of men would very probably catch the attention of the intelligence services of India, not to mention the United States and other major world powers. Pakistan would lose a lot more than it would gain by getting involved in a fight between Iran and Israel.

Selatius

(20,441 posts)
34. Because they would've test fired those rockets to ensure they actually could go that far.
Wed Sep 5, 2012, 05:27 AM
Sep 2012

Whenever the Chinese or Russians tested long-range rockets capable of hitting the United States, they often fired them into the Pacific to test the range. Even North Korea has tried to test-fire long-range rockets. India tested rockets as well. They fire theirs into the Indian Ocean.

agentS

(1,325 posts)
22. There's only 1 red line that matters
Sun Sep 2, 2012, 10:34 PM
Sep 2012

If Israel wants backup from the West for their pre-emptive whatever on Iran, then it's gonna take a violation of the NPT- the Non Proliferation Treaty. Basically they would have to be spotted with an atomic weapon to justify a war.
They've had 'ticky-tack' violations but nothing of the sort that would require a bombing run. Sure they may have an extra centrifuge or two, but so do a lot of places and they're not building nukes. Or at least they say they're not. At the very least they're not threatening to use nukes on opponents (this applies to Israel's enemy the Mullahs of Iran, who have repeatedly said they were not. Of course they are Mullahs so YMMY).

It should be noted that Israel is NOT a member of the treaty.

Now the ultra-hard-righties in Israel are saying 'we can't wait for a nuke, they're a suicide bomber nation.'
The Obama administration seems to be saying "Link or GTFO". And Netanyahu is pissed.

Short of regime change I am not sure of any guaranteed method that would keep the Mullahs from building a nuke IF they choose to leave the NPT and build them. Hitting a few sites, in which there are many, with sketchy bunker-busters probably isn't going to change their mind. Is the hard-right willing to stomach another occupation, this one thousands of miles away?

defacto7

(13,485 posts)
23. Don't forget the fundamentalists lurking in the background...
Mon Sep 3, 2012, 12:51 AM
Sep 2012

who actually WANT a nuclear war... WWIII, Armageddon if you please. These are the teabaggers, the fanatics, Romney... many of the radio talk show right wing hosts... They preach the bringing on of the second coming of Christ... Jesus comes in the clouds and saves all believers, destroys all the sinners and there is a thousand years of.... BULL SHIT.

G.W. was visited by Billy Graham in the White House several times, G.W. came to Salt Lake City to visit the 12 presidents and the profit of the Mormon Church... This religious stuff has a huge hand in the decisions of politicians whether they believe in what they do or just use and are used by the raving religious crazies.

Nutinyahoo is crazy and a liar and a murderer. I have no idea what his motives are but rest assured, he will use any crazy religious imbecile and ignorant politician he can get, to do whatever the hell it is he wants.

Personally, I also think he is a racist to the hilt.

 

NewYorkers

(13 posts)
27. Bomb nuclear facilities Netanyahu
Mon Sep 3, 2012, 05:20 PM
Sep 2012

Isreal must bomb nuclear facilities and missile sites of Iran as emptive strike. Problem solved

defacto7

(13,485 posts)
30. No... The greatest problem begins
Tue Sep 4, 2012, 02:04 AM
Sep 2012

do you mean pre-emptive?

Some people just see things as a big boom and it's done. Your comment sounds very "religious" to me... maybe even fanatical.

davidpdx

(22,000 posts)
32. Israel has been trying to goat us into starting a war with Iran for awhile now
Tue Sep 4, 2012, 10:03 AM
Sep 2012

It appears they want to start a war, then pull us into it so we can take the blame. I hope Obama continues to stand tough and tell them they are on their own if they want war.

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