No worries though, it's moving into the court systems now.

but he's about 2 decades too late for me. I'll never go back to that mess.

He boldly open the Vatican II to the dismay of the entrenched ultraconservative hierarchy and succeeded in getting the church to adopt significant reforms to the consternation of the hard nosed conservatives. The church was in open revolt and he was leading the way. Most Catholics don't know that he established a commission under Cardinal Suennes to example the church's doctrine on birth control.

He also was poised to examine the issue of priestly celibacy. Unfortunately, he died before these could be make their recommendations. The birth control commission overwhelmingly advised that contraceptive birth control, especially the pill, should be approved. By this time the conservatives had regained control and absolutely refused to make any concessions. John-Paul who many thought would have welcomed change died suddenly.

The future Pope John-Paul II, who the conservatives managed to get appointed to the commission never attended say that the communist authorities would allow him to leave the country. That was proven to a an absolute lie. The reason he didn't attend was that he, at the urging of the conservative cabal, was engaged in writing what would be the encyclical that would restate the church's condemnation of birth control. He was confronted by liberals who took objection, but he claimed that he had only provided a little input in the final document. This was an out right lie since according to his secretary who bragged that they had succeeded to turning back the liberals who were destroying he church. The same tactic were taken in regard to priestly celibacy. The result was massive defection of the laity who voted with their feet and thousands of priests and the vast majority of nuns leaving the ministry.


I realize that this is not really the purpose of this board, but provides insight to the position of Kavanaugh's ultra-conservative stance. If he is appointed to the Supreme Court his radical beliefs will have a profound affect on his decisions that will affect the entirety of the nation's citizens. There is no doubt that he is an extreme ultra-conservative whose views are not accepted by the overwhelming majority of Catholic, both practicing and fallen away. He is nothing more than a dedicated radical who has no restraint in imposing his personal beliefs on the citizens. He along with evangelical extremists are dedicated the establishment of a virtual theocracy. Good luck fellow citizens, the Republican Party sold out long ago and made a pact with extremists to get win at any cost. Their victory was won at great cost.

when Vatican II happened but I learned about it later. I was confirmed into the church in the late 80s and got fed up soon after. I had my first marriage annulled. The priest that came to my parish and helped me with the annulment was a good guy and not much older than me. He helped me understand all of what you just typed and we both eventually left the church about a couple of years later. He moved back to CA and I got married to my second spouse who refused to get married in the church anyway. I go to the cathedrals to view the artwork but that's all they are to me now. Just buildings full of art. I don't believe a word of that bible anymore. I don't believe there is a god and if there is, he's a sorry ass bastard. I really don't believe anything at all anymore. I married a man about 12 yrs ago that is the best man for me and he is one of the kind men that reads the word every day and doesn't care at all that I don't believe. He's a good christian as Jesus intended.

I was a cradle Catholic, a former candidate to the diaconate, and a formerly professed Secular Franciscan. Between the abuse/cover-up scandal and the treatment of women and LGBTQI, I have formally left the Roman Catholic Church.

I now worship with a tiny Independent Catholic community (not in communion with Rome) and am an interfaith seminarian.

I think there was more than one member of my family who thought I would have been the absolute last person to leave the Roman church. I was thinking of leaving off and on after Benedict got in but stayed because of the parish I was in. But in 2012 it just got to the point where I was done with the church.

Whether it was the new mass translation, the comparisons of President Obama to Hitler and Stalin, the church becoming a branch of the Republican party, treatment of LGBTQI people, the abuse scandals, being against abortion even if needed to save the mother's life or if the pregnancy was the result of rape, the treatment of the laity as little more than pew stuffing, and so on I just had enough in 2012 and swam the Thames. It was about the best thing I ever did. I wish I had not waited as long as I had and jumped sooner. I might have saved myself a lot of mental issues had I left sooner.

And the grand jury report and the USCCB hopping in bed with Kavanaugh have convinced me even more that I had made the right decision 6 years ago.

"and swam the Thames" - Had to look it up.

It was pretty much what I thought it would mean.

https://www.episcopalcafe.com/why_do_some_catholics_swim_the_thames/

It was the Church's views on birth control that started driving me away.

Along with their positions on priest celibacy and reproductive rights.

For me that had been the straw that had broken the camel's back.

I married into a very Catholic family. I was baptized Catholic but was never a believer and refused to be confirmed. I have witnessed many of my brother and sister in laws' children (most raised in Catholic Schools not just for the educational opportunities) go from reciting church dogma to become disillusioned with religion altogether. The in-laws are still pretty devout while only two of their twelve combined young adult and adult children are active practicing members of the church.

The sex abuse scandal certainly does not help things, but personally I believe that is not the only reason for the decline. Before my father in law (who actually boycotted our civil wedding ceremony and wrote us a detailed letter why) died over five years ago, he asked me if perhaps I turned my back on the church because I had suffered or witnessed abuse. I told him no, I had never personally experienced nor witnessed sexual abuse from the church but that the apparent coverup was indeed horrible. After a very honest back and forth, my father in law actually admitted that I was indeed a good person even if I was a non-believer.

Sex scandals alert people that there is something rotten in the Church. When people dig below the surface, they find a rotting Church that is centuries behind times.

Over the years the Church has also chosen to prop up some pretty bad political regimes.

In general the church is ruled by old men for old men. It is quite political and seems to be much more concerned about acquiring wealth and power than saving souls.

Or at least that was what I went through in the process of leaving religion behind.

Since 2008 priests & bishops have been telling Catholics from the pulpit, in op-eds, on YouTube and via the weekly bulletin that if they vote for Democratic candidates they will (I quote) "risk your eternal soul". The only big issue they aren't conservative on in the USA is immigration and that's because most nations to our south are strongly Catholic (I'm no longer convinced the Church is truly liberal when it comes to the poor. They are far too wealthy and do far too little).

I am older and resent the guilt and fear that Church especially burdened kids with. Its a pack of sick bastards. Anyone who chucks their hard earned bucks into basket to support these worthless bastards is a sucker. I have a relative whose son was a priest and he told him to he was just a lazy bum who didn't want to work. He was a tough old bugger that ran a dairy farm. He said that kid never did amount to a row of beans. Just wanted to get on the gravy train. He never went to church, but his wife did and enrolled Jim in the Catholic School in town. They we heard that he went off to be a priest when he was still in high school.

Pope Francis has a good heart deep down I believe. But its still just another organized religion, probably the most organized in history.

It won't end Catholicism. Just as multiple cases of high profile Christian evangelic pastors screwing around with prostitutes and drugs and embezzlement didn't end that cult. In fact American Evangelicals now have more influence on government than at any other period of time.
And just like years of increasingly violent terrorist attacks against civilians by Islamic extremists hasn't ended Islam, even though the vast majority of Muslims say they are against terrorism.

The God part of the brain is powerful. And once you fill it, it is very difficult to drain, because of all sorts of interconnected reasons like family ties, church community, and the belief pounded into you that if you leave, you are "turning your back on God". Who'd want to do that?