it is typical of a path to dictatorship to eliminate anything to do with education, thus Devos being the Secretary of Education and who has already done a lot of harm to the education system in the USA.

To become a dictator you need the sheep to follow and there is nothing better than uneducated people to help a dictatorship take over.

I hope this administration's demise happens in the first quarter of this year, that would be a great beginning for 2019.

Sigh.

The split with UNESCO started under the Obama administration which cut funding after their 2011 Palestinian vote. The US hasn't really been a member for about a decade (they suspended US voting rights when Obama cut the funding).

GHWB and Clinton. That legislation made it obligatory to cut funding to organizations that recognized Palestine as a state.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/unesco-votes-to-admit-palestine-over-us-objections/2011/10/31/gIQAMleYZM_story.html?utm_term=.50022ee91051

What is sad is that in many places we have traveled the phrase " X is a UNESCO World Heritage Centre" is shorthand for make sure we spend time there when we are planning what to do in the country we are visiting. Unlike some recommended lists - including trip adviser, the UNESCO designation never fails.

Thus, it seems unlikely that we would be re-joining under a new Democratic administration since we would still be obligated not to pay, and would therefore still only have observer status.

even as they were strongly against declaring Palestine a state.

In 2015, Secretary Kerry, who had worked extremely hard on that very peace process, led the effort for the US to remain on the UNESCO Executive committee and succeeded, in spite of the lack of funding and the observer status. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/11/09/us-unesco-executive-board/75441252/

The reasons why the US wanted to continue to be active in UNESCO were explained nicely by Kerry speaking to UNESCO at that time.
https://en.unesco.org/news/united-states-secretary-state-john-kerry-unesco-reaffirms-us-commitment-organization

It is clear that the Obama administration worked to get Congress to back off as Kerry told UNESCO it would. In fact, in December 2015, Kerry got Netanyahu to drop Israel's demand that we not fund UNESCO. (Note at the end of this article, the question was whether Netanyahu would actively push AIPAC on this. I suspect this was a typical Netanyahu game of saying one thing and doing the opposite. ) https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-israel-relents-on-u-s-funding-for-unesco-1.5434577

Please refer to the CNN article posted above with quotes from the WH spokesperson, along with Susan Rice and Victoria Nuland.

I would point out that Kerry was not the Secretary of State when the decision was made in 2011, Hillary Clinton was.

There were certainly efforts years later to revisit the issue when Kerry took over for Clinton, but there was such broad bipartisan opposition that it went nowhere.

He did not question the value of UNESCO, while he sharply disagreed on Palestine.

Do you personally agree with the US holding our engagement in an organization that does good things hostage to Palestine.

Please note that efforts that Obama administration went through in order to try to prevent the UNESCO vote on Palestine.

For example:

Last edited Tue Jan 1, 2019, 03:43 PM - Edit history (1)

As to the 2016 resolution, even the head of the organization had problems with what the Arab countries forced through it did not deny a connection. It was unbalanced and there was a problem with using only the Arabic names. The US could not vote against it because it could not vote --- because it wasn't paying. Nice job diminising our own potential impact!

Not to mention -- you attacked my speaking of Secretary Kerry in 2015 when he was certainly Secretary of State, in 2016 Clinton was NOT Obama's Secretary of State.

This does not diminish that UNESCO helps preserve historical and cultural places throughout the world.

It is just really unfortunate, in my view, that UNESCO passes resolutions like the one in 2016 negating any Jewish connection to Jewish holy sites in Jerusalem.

They do good work, but votes like that are just so outrageous that it is hard to support them.

An analogy would be a church that runs a soup kitchen and a food pantry but also preaches against homosexuality.

But anyway, that is just my personal opinion.

They have protected world cultural sites since 1960 when the organization rescued the great ancient Egyptian temple complex at Abu Simbel from the rising waters of an Egyptian dam. This organization created the World Heritage list of culturally and historically significant landmarks.

It is a shame that we appear to be on the side of the Taliban and endorse their destruction of the Buddhist statues of Afghanistan. Historical sites are always under threat and great nations should side with protecting our history.

Of protecting world heritage sites. Why would we withdraw from that organization? It simply means we don’t care about world historical and sites. Isn’t that the very essence of Trump’s America First? He certainly doesn’t care about history. Great nations support history and even a cursory view of this administration’s policy concerning history,culture and archaeology illustrates their disdain for those aspects of of our shared humanity.

History is a discipline that demands humility of its student. You realize that other people and other world views from other times and other places can still inform us and enrich us. So intellectually our policy shares the same world view as the Taliban. Destroy anything that doesn’t agree with your world view.

There a million different policy paths to deal with the Middle East. Leaving UNESCO isn’t remotely on that path unless you hate world history or world culture.

Many Americans have been disturbed to find that there are 22 areas in this nation that have been designated as United Nations’ World Heritage Sites. As a result of a UN treaty called “The Convention Concerning Protection of the World Cultural and Natural Heritage,” such sites come under the jurisdiction of the United Nations’ Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO). Such designations have been the source of major debate as to whether the UN has gained control of sovereign American territory.

It's also illogical. Not only does the argument presuppose the truth of its own conclusions, but it also relies on necessary and sufficient conditions where they might not exist.

https://smarthistory.org/preserve-cultural-heritage/

Although I don't always agree with a good argument, I am more likely to take it seriously.

Attacking the person making the argument, rather than the argument itself, when the attack on the person is completely irrelevant to the argument the person is making.

So your “Don’t tell me what to say” impugned that I told you what to say. I merely asked a question if you agreed with Trumps position concerning the topic of the op.

I didn’t tell you what to say in our discussion. I asked you what your position was. It’s kind of the point of a discussion board. Peace.

I'm very cautious before I take a position on an issue I know little about.

Peace to you as well and Happy New Year.

And it's definitely an answer. Well stated, imo.

Unesco is betraying it's own mission, they have been hijacked by Antisemites.

They recently met in Krakow of all places, to declare Hebron an Islamic city and that the tomb of the Patriarchs is a Palestinian heritage site. They did the same thing with Jerusalem and the Kotel.

It's disgusting.

concerns over Russian influence.

But we maintained "Observer Status" and rejoined in 2003. See https://2001-2009.state.gov/p/io/rls/fs/2003/24189.htm

Per the link:

Then they took away our voting rights.

And we have essentially been just an "observer" ever since.

The problem is that the US Congress passed a bill that required our government to not fund any organization that recognizes Palestine as a state. While, Palestine is clearly NOT a state, this legislation puts our engagement to the world on many things on auto pilot based on this one issue. In fact, UNESCO declaring Palestine a state did not make it so or make a two state solution any more or less likely.

Not to mention, there is an ocean of differences between President Obama's and President Trump's engagement with UNESCO. Although we were an "observer" and could not fund UNESCO, we stayed engaged and actually joined some initiatives. Here is a video from 2015 where Kerry spoke to UNESCO and was clearly welcomed. Something tells me Pompeo would not even think of speaking to them .. nor would he get the welcome.

https://en.unesco.org/news/united-states-secretary-state-john-kerry-unesco-reaffirms-us-commitment-organization

In fact, Kerry successfully lobbied for the US to remain on the UNESCO executive board in 2015 - in spite of not funding it and having observer status - https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/11/09/us-unesco-executive-board/75441252/

It is clear that the Obama administration worked to get Congress to back off. In fact, in December 2015, Kerry got Netanyahu to drop Israel's demand that we not fund UNESCO. (Note at the end of this article, the question was whether Netanyahu would actively push AIPAC on this. I suspect this was a typical Netanyahu game of saying one thing and doing the opposite. ) https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-israel-relents-on-u-s-funding-for-unesco-1.5434577

AIPAC was extremely powerful and they pushed that legislation.

My point, which you did not respond to, is that NONE of the quotes suggest that the Obama administration did not support UNESCO. They did NOT say they would leave and remained involved - in fact, they continued in 2011 and 2012 on the Executive Board - voted in earlier in 2011. I gave you links to the US remaining on that board even in 2015, when there was a new election for the executive board that would determine if we were on it.

There is no question that the US disagreed with the designation of Palestine as a state. There is no question that AIPAC and other lobbyists are extremely powerful - though they failed to stop the Iran deal.

At this point, I would guess the article overstates the impact of Israel and the US leaving. We know the US has not funded it and I doubt that Trump's State Department has engaged with them at all.

I agree for the most part with what you are saying.

I agree that I probably overstated the feelings about UNESCO by the Obama administration. The initial point was to suggest (as you do) that this move now is not such a huge deal since we have basically been on the outskirts of the organization for a while now.

That first happened under Reagan in 1984. We rejoined in 2003, somewhat surprisingly, under Bush II. http://time.com/5491285/us-israel-un-unesco/

UNESCO has survived before and will survive again. Trump will not. Hopefully, neither will Netanyahu.