... here in Kansas City. There are a lot of IRS workers here (big processing complex downtown), and that number of employees not receiving pay obviously has a ripple effect on businesses and providers with whom these workers would have spent their paychecks. A friend of mine operates a daycare facility and has lost about 1/3 of her clients since the shutdown. So now she is wondering how she's going to make it. It's more than just the 800k employees -- it's also everyone they spend their money with.

folks to go back to work. Hope these workers will continue with their defiance as long as Trump shuts down the gov.

the Coast Guard, the FBI, the Secret Service, air traffic controllers. This BS of him ordering certain federal employees back to work without a paycheck has GOT to stop.

END THE SHUTDOWN. CALL YOUR ELECTED OFFICIALS. DEMAND AN END TO PEOPLE NOT GETTING A PAYCHECK.

FU don. Never worked a day in his long stupid life. You don't own people, or this Country.

Hopefully more people will to.

"Haggis for breakfast?" I like haggis, but for breakfast?

So why not haggis ? (And, yes, my folks are Brits, Mum's from Scotland.)

I order mine from the Scottish Gourmet USA in Greensboro, NC. They ship 2nd day air, so I'm never out of haggis. And theirs is great. I can't make it from scratch anymore. Too much work.

goes, he loses. .... This is more than great. And we need to support them any way and anywhere we can.

And they do have representation. Their elected representatives are still getting paid and is still working. This is being made to work without getting paid, which is normally called slavery.

broken government for the millions of Americans who are suffering.

The presidency, one house of congress and the defunded federal courts are all but shut down. Wall St. isn't taking this well, either. This isn't, as you imply, just a problem for those furloughed.

This certainly is a taxation without representation issue when the Senate of the first branch works for a president of the second branch, who shuts down all part of government that he can legally shut down.

Americans who still pay taxes are not getting representation.

My stance is that their only power is a national tax strike. For as long as the government is shut down.
No government ticky, no IRS washy.

Which means: The national taxpayers' strike will be extended after April 15, for as many months as the majority party made us suffer with a government shutdown. And not a day sooner. American common sense says they can't put us all in jail.

I know you want to shoehorn this analogy to make it work, but it doesn’t. If you want to complain about taxation without representation, how about non-citizen residents, who are taxed.

Americans are being represented, though not necessarily well, and maybe by people they don’t like and didn’t vote for.

After April 15?

I never file until the first week of April, mainly because I don't get all of my paperwork until the very end of March. I also am never getting a refund, and often have to pay, which is substantially different from those who depend on a refund. For them, a delay in that refund truly sucks and they have my profound sympathy.

I think I'm ahead of you, I get my paperwork by mid-March. But still, I will owe money, I think. My investments did not do as well in 2018 as they did in 2017 .

something that is completely in their own hands ( save for perhaps the first year on a new job) and does not merit sympathy. They are giving tRump a loan free of interest for up to 15 months every year, needlessly.

I've been telling people for years that they'd be better off withholding as close to exactly the amount of their taxes as possible, but a lot of people have locked themselves into a financial trap where they depend on that refund.

I prefer having to pay a little at tax time.

She was furloughed last fall in a normal sort of furlough. Went back to work waiting tables. She's a single mom with three kids and works VERY hard to support them. I haven't checked in with her (we're not close) but I strongly suspect she's waiting tables full time right now.

I have enormous respect for her work ethic. Not so much for her having three children out of wedlock, but that's really not my business. She does provide for them. She does give them a stable environment. That counts for a lot.

on time.

But otherwise I agree with you... lack of refunds will hurt his support

The govt has ordered the IRS workers back to work (w/o pay), but many are refusing. That tells me the tax thing is a big deal to them. Why would that be? People going without medical care, or having to get free food if they can, possibly losing homes or apartments...none of that moved them. But the tax thing...that's a big deal to them. I figure it's that it affects the people with money. Their friends. Their donors. Their children. The ones who count.

They file extensions to keep from paying what they owe as long as possible.

You can file your return late if you get an extension, but you have to pay the taxes you wind up owing by April 15 (even before the return is filed). If you don't, there are penalties and interest.

He actually doesn’t care about helping the base. He enjoys screwing them while they are bamboozled by rightwing media. But he DOES care about approval rating from the base, which is the only thing keeping him in office.

The erosion of his approval rating is what is making him scared.

Nothing shakes that number, so far. But the shutdown is affecting his base, so maybe that will reflect in the approval rating. I'm starting to see Trumpers dipping the proverbial toe into the waters of criticism of the Orange One.

Cheers

Bill Maher on Real Time has mentioned this several times on his show, about "what's up with that?" Why does his approval rating stay the same, no matter what he does, and he's done some terrible things. It's perplexing.

President knows he’s losing

Link to tweet

They make sure they don’t have too much withheld and don’t pay too much Estimated Tax. You don’t get rich by giving out interest-free loans.

I'm not rich, but tried not to pay too much during the year. I don't need the IRS to keep my money, as a form of savings account for me. My coworkers told me they'd prefer to pay it up front, since they'd spend it, if they got it, and they don't want to have to pay anything at the end of the year.

and avoid going into work in this kind of circumstance.

apparently a lot of recalled employees have been using it.

i do wonder if it affects their ability to get back pay if they get put into leave without pay status instead of furlough status.

but lots of employees, and these are often low-paid ones, can't afford the expenses of child care and commuting unless they are paid.

It is true that the NTEU has been pushing back against draconian requirements for "essential" employees during a shutdown, and that the "hardship" contract provision is part of that. But it's a lot more nuanced than appears in that story.

The essence of it is that you can claim "hardship," but it's entirely up to your manager whether it gets granted or not.

Theoretically, you have to prove that showing up to work would actually cost you sufficiently more than staying at home as a furloughed employee. How much you can do so depends on your circumstances. For example, a single parent with children in daycare is obviously affected, as it would cost a lot more for you to pay the daycare bill than it would to stay at home and take care of your kids yourself. But, for people without such circumstances, it would be a lot more of a "tough sell." If you lived within walking distance of work, and could pack a bag lunch, it would be ruled that there's no significant added expense from coming in to work instead of staying home. For people between those two extremes, say someone who has to pay a few bucks each day in bus or subway fare, it's a lot more of a judgment call on the manager's part.

At this point, a lot of managers are choosing to be lenient, and staffing is considerably lower than normal. But there's no guarantee that this will continue indefinitely. As the shutdown drags on, it becomes increasingly likely that managers will start denying hardship exemptions for all but the most extreme examples...or that word will come down from on high that virtually all such requests must be denied, or else. And since "on high" may go back to "Trump political appointees"...well, you do the math.

(I should note that this is all a paraphrase and elaboration on my part of what I was told -- these aren't my wife's own words, nor anything official coming out of Treasury. But it's my understanding of the situation based on what I heard from her.)

one thing I've always liked about DU is how often something gets mentioned and someone follows up with details and insights that the first person didn't have.

isn't in a residential area. Very few folks could walk there from home, and it costs a lot to move.

Mainly because I believe that she, as her union rep. in touch with her base, can attest that at least 60% of co-workers are taking advantage of the provision. I believe her, too, because as a person with my own 2-person business dealing with the IRS on a regular basis, there has been a change from the way-back-then-nasty chimpy Bush customer service reps and the onset of the Obama admin.; who were so understanding and accommodating of real people problems that leaves me grateful every day for people like Ellis. This cannot be a coincidence from admin to admin. Years ago, I asked a rep once what is the sea change from the deplorable service to empathy now. He would not get into the politics but just stressed his appreciation of my call to work things out, honoring my promises, and I've been stress-free since at least 2010 calling every year with the same gracious service.

Thank you for posting.

will be if his Trumpers are late getting their refunds and the refunds are way less than last year thanks to his tax cuts for the rich scam.

It is my understanding that essential employees are employees who protect the public safety like TSA agents, air traffic controllers and the Coast Guard. I do not think that these IRS employees meet any definition of essential employees

I'm so sorry for people. We are so generous to the world with our tax dollars. We are always helping everywhere on this planet. I'm sorry to every American that is hurt by this. Don't give up.

Trump will be either promising them something that's another complete lie, or he'll threaten to fire or hurt them in some way if they don't obey his every demand.

Why loan the government money without interest?

I think it’s a bit silly, but some people get really hooked on getting a couple grand back every February. I get more use out of my money being in my weekly check than I would issuing it as an interest-free loan to the government.