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muriel_volestrangler

(101,321 posts)
Mon Feb 4, 2019, 06:28 AM Feb 2019

EU countries recognise Juan Guaido as interim Venezuelan leader

Source: The Guardian

European countries including Spain, France, the UK, Sweden and Denmark have recognised Juan Guaidó as interim president of Venezuela in a coordinated move made after a deadline for Nicolás Maduro to call presidential elections expired.

“Given that we’ve got to today and Maduro’s regime hasn’t taken any steps whatsoever towards [calling elections], the government of Spain announces that it officially recognises Mr Guaidó, the president of the Venezuelan assembly, as Venezuela’s caretaker president,” Spain’s prime minister, Pedro Sánchez, told reporters at the Moncloa palace in Madrid.

Jeremy Hunt, the UK foreign secretary, tweeted: “Nicolás Maduro has not called presidential elections within 8 day limit we have set. So UK alongside European allies now recognises @jguaido as interim constitutional president until credible elections can be held. Let’s hope this takes us closer to ending humanitarian crisis.”

Seven EU states had given Maduro until Sunday to call elections, failing which they would recognise the 35-year-old Guaidó as the country’s interim leader.



Read more: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/feb/04/juan-guaido-interim-venezuela-leader-europe

25 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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EU countries recognise Juan Guaido as interim Venezuelan leader (Original Post) muriel_volestrangler Feb 2019 OP
Now what? no_hypocrisy Feb 2019 #1
A clear minority of EU countries... Ghost Dog Feb 2019 #2
But a majority of countries that matter. oldsoftie Feb 2019 #3
Oh. Does Spain, suddenly, "matter" on the international stage? Ghost Dog Feb 2019 #4
For relations with Venezuela, yes, Spain does matter more than Italy muriel_volestrangler Feb 2019 #5
Perhaps The Guardian and other MSM should employ professional journalists Ghost Dog Feb 2019 #6
"the corruption at high political as well as commercial levels in Spain runs, surely.. EX500rider Feb 2019 #14
... And, as regards claiming that "ex-coloniser" status Ghost Dog Feb 2019 #7
It's a matter of the cultural and personal ties the countries have muriel_volestrangler Feb 2019 #8
Well, imagine Australians had elected a government Ghost Dog Feb 2019 #9
Imagine an Australian government had prevented its opposition from running in an election muriel_volestrangler Feb 2019 #11
The Veneuezlan opposition was not prevented from participating Ghost Dog Feb 2019 #20
When the govt moves up the election to keep the opposition from having time to prepare.. EX500rider Feb 2019 #21
Venezuela opposition leader Capriles banned from politics muriel_volestrangler Feb 2019 #23
Except Mr Guaid wasn't "appointed" by any foreign nation? He is being recognize, that's different. EX500rider Feb 2019 #17
+ "Brexit" is a term which will soon be in all the dictionaries, meaning: Ghost Dog Feb 2019 #10
Your reaction is a bit curious to me. Adrahil Feb 2019 #13
A clear majority of democratic western nations Vs all the authoritarian ones.. EX500rider Feb 2019 #15
I've seen threads on here defending the North Korean government PupCamo Feb 2019 #16
yeah we have some posters who think Cuba is a shining example of Democracy also. n/t EX500rider Feb 2019 #18
I know PupCamo Feb 2019 #24
Is he an opportunist? moondust Feb 2019 #12
"Or will he make things worse?' Hardly possible. EX500rider Feb 2019 #19
Good, now we can officially kill that "this is an American coup" bullshit Blue_Tires Feb 2019 #22
Maybe they'd like to give that a go over here too. Helloooo mahina Feb 2019 #25
 

Ghost Dog

(16,881 posts)
4. Oh. Does Spain, suddenly, "matter" on the international stage?
Mon Feb 4, 2019, 10:20 AM
Feb 2019

That's new, then. And Italy doesn't?

Perhaps the MAGAhero would like to appoint a new government to Italy also (after all, US military, etc. are already there)?

muriel_volestrangler

(101,321 posts)
5. For relations with Venezuela, yes, Spain does matter more than Italy
Mon Feb 4, 2019, 10:43 AM
Feb 2019

It's the ex-colonial power; they speak the same language, and have far greater trade than Italy ($338m with Italy; $1100m with Spain.

Spain also has a socialist government. With them calling on Maduro to step down, he has significant problems.

 

Ghost Dog

(16,881 posts)
6. Perhaps The Guardian and other MSM should employ professional journalists
Mon Feb 4, 2019, 10:45 AM
Feb 2019

to inquire as to what exactly ordinary real people are thinking and feeling in Spain, Italy and elsewhere...

Rather than just propagandizing.

Edit: BTW, The Spanish PSOE is thought of, around here, as being only "ostensibly", sometimes, as far as the international financial system might permit, socialist.

And very cowardly.

Edit: ... And, since the corruption at high political as well as commercial levels in Spain runs, surely, almost as deep as in Venezuela (and the USA), it's a walkover.

EX500rider

(10,849 posts)
14. "the corruption at high political as well as commercial levels in Spain runs, surely..
Mon Feb 4, 2019, 02:40 PM
Feb 2019
.. And, since the corruption at high political as well as commercial levels in Spain runs, surely, almost as deep as in Venezuela (and the USA), it's a walkover.

Not even close.
Venz is ranked 168 out of 180 countries in corruption.
Spain is ranked 41.
USA is 22.


https://www.transparency.org/cpi2018
 

Ghost Dog

(16,881 posts)
7. ... And, as regards claiming that "ex-coloniser" status
Mon Feb 4, 2019, 11:50 AM
Feb 2019

might provide any kind of legitimacy in this and therefore other contexts... such that the ex-coloniser, while no longer colonising, thanks to French and Bolivarian Revolutions in this case, may still appoint rulers in the ex-colonies... I think you can see where that line of thought and action might lead...

A complete Brexit, in other words.

&feature=share

muriel_volestrangler

(101,321 posts)
8. It's a matter of the cultural and personal ties the countries have
Mon Feb 4, 2019, 12:55 PM
Feb 2019

The UK has closer ties with Australia than Italy does. Migration between the countries, and thus family ties, are more likely. These affect the relations of the governments. No, I can't see the Brexit connection.

 

Ghost Dog

(16,881 posts)
9. Well, imagine Australians had elected a government
Mon Feb 4, 2019, 01:06 PM
Feb 2019

into power the putative Empire disagreed with...

Do you imagine said Australians would welcome Ms. May in London, together with bigMAGAbrother, of course, appointing, unconstitutionally and contrary to all international law, an alternative Australian government, contrary to the jurisprudence of that Republic's Supreme Court?

muriel_volestrangler

(101,321 posts)
11. Imagine an Australian government had prevented its opposition from running in an election
Mon Feb 4, 2019, 01:29 PM
Feb 2019

and there had then been a subsequent mass exodus from Australia as it descended into chaos. I think the Australians would be split as to whether they support the guy who stopped his opposition from standing, or they support what there had been elected of the opposition. Plus, of course, there'd be a few million outside the country; I suspect they wouldn't be supporting the guy or the Supreme Court he appointed.

The thing is that the 'unconstitutional' moves have come first from Maduro; given that, it's quite understandable that other countries may not see him as the legitimate president anymore. Guaido has at least called for elections.

 

Ghost Dog

(16,881 posts)
20. The Veneuezlan opposition was not prevented from participating
Mon Feb 4, 2019, 05:51 PM
Feb 2019

in those elections: they boicotted: they did not participate.

To later cry: "undemocratic", after not participating in democratic process, and then... do the Big Brother thing...

is off-the-scale, to speak in the imperial idiom, bullshit. ie: criminally fraudulent.

EX500rider

(10,849 posts)
21. When the govt moves up the election to keep the opposition from having time to prepare..
Mon Feb 4, 2019, 06:31 PM
Feb 2019
Presidential elections were held in Venezuela on 20 May 2018,[3] with incumbent Nicolás Maduro being re-elected for a second six-year term.[4] Considered a snap election, the original electoral date was scheduled for December 2018 but was subsequently pulled ahead to 22 April before being pushed back to 20 May.

When the govt arrests the most prominent opposition so they can't participate.

When the govt buys voted with food from starving people:

Reports of vote buying were also prevalent during the presidential campaigning. Venezuelans suffering from hunger were pressured to vote for Maduro, with the government bribing potential supporters with food.[121] Maduro promised rewards for citizens who scanned their Carnet de la Patria at the voting booth, which would allow the government to monitor the political party of their citizens and whether or not they had voted.

The election is anything but honest and fair.


United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights Zeid Ra'ad al-Hussein noted that his office had concerns that reports of extrajudicial killings cast doubts on fairness, stating "this context does not in any way fulfill minimal conditions for free and credible elections"
Prior to the elections, the Lima Group, with its participating nations of Argentina, Brazil, Canada, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, Guatemala, Guyana, Honduras, Mexico, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, and Saint Lucia, stated that they would not recognize the results of the presidential elections due to the perceived lack of transparency.


The European Union, through the European Parliament, also ruled that it would not recognize the 20 May elections and called the electoral process "fraudulent".[12] On 3 May 2018, the European Parliament again called for the immediate suspension of the 20 May election until "free and fair elections were held on a schedule agreed upon with the participation of all relevant actors and political parties".

The governments of Argentina,[162] Canada,[163] Chile,[164] Colombia,[152] Costa Rica,[165] France,[166] Jamaica,[167] Panama,[168] Paraguay,[169] Spain,[170] the United States[161] and Uruguay[171] directly criticized the electoral process in various ways, condemning the disqualification and imprisonment of MUD individuals, the lack of advanced notice for the election date and the bias of electoral bodies, describing such actions by the Venezuelan government antidemocratic.[172][173] Remaining member governments representing countries from the Lima Group, including Brazil, Guatemala, Guyana, Honduras, Mexico, Peru, and Saint Lucia, denounced the elections in a joint statement through declarations made by the organization.
Meanwhile, the governments of Antigua and Barbuda,[174] Bolivia,[175] Cuba,[176][177] Nicaragua,[178] North Korea[179] and Russia[180][181] reacted to the call for elections positively, showing support for the process and demanded that there be no intervention.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Venezuelan_presidential_election#Vote_buying

muriel_volestrangler

(101,321 posts)
23. Venezuela opposition leader Capriles banned from politics
Mon Feb 4, 2019, 06:50 PM
Feb 2019
A leading Venezuelan opposition leader, Henrique Capriles, has been formally banned for 15 years from public office.

Mr Capriles has been at the forefront of demands for a recall referendum on President Nicolas Maduro.

There was no immediate comment from the government on the ban.

In a heated press conference, Mr Capriles said he would continue in his post as governor of Miranda state and called for a protest march to be held on Saturday.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-39534732


Venezuela's jailed, exiled or barred opposition politicians
...
Lopez, 46, advocates hardline resistance to the government. In 2014, he was jailed for championing anti-Maduro protests, and later sentenced to 15 years in prison on charges of fomenting violence and terrorism. He is currently under house arrest.
...
Ledezma, a 62-year-old lawyer and former mayor of Caracas, recently fled house arrest by escaping by land over the Colombian border. He then flew to Spain, where he has been mobilizing opposition supporters.
...
Guevara sought refuge in the Chilean ambassador’s residence in Caracas in November amid fears he could be jailed.
...
Ramon Muchacho, also a former mayor of Chacao, fled to Miami in August after he was sentenced by Venezuela’s top court to 15 months in jail. The Supreme Court alleged the 45-year-old failed to suppress last year’s massive anti-Maduro rallies in Chacao, a hotbed of opposition activism.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-politics-factbox/factbox-venezuelas-jailed-exiled-or-barred-opposition-politicians-idUSKCN1G31WU

There are more listed there.

The opposition was crying 'undemocratic' before the last presidential election. That's why they boycotted it.

EX500rider

(10,849 posts)
17. Except Mr Guaid wasn't "appointed" by any foreign nation? He is being recognize, that's different.
Mon Feb 4, 2019, 02:50 PM
Feb 2019
Mr Guaidó, who is head of Venezuela's National Assembly, said the constitution allowed him to assume power temporarily when the president was deemed illegitimate.

And since Maduro stole the last election and jailed the opposition politicians and then when he lost control of the National Assembly created a unconstitutional Congress of his own stuffed with lackeys he's about as illegitimate as you can get.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Venezuelan_presidential_election
 

Ghost Dog

(16,881 posts)
10. + "Brexit" is a term which will soon be in all the dictionaries, meaning:
Mon Feb 4, 2019, 01:28 PM
Feb 2019

total fuck-up. Disaster. Catastrophe.

Leading to elite-threatening social "unrest".

 

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)
13. Your reaction is a bit curious to me.
Mon Feb 4, 2019, 02:31 PM
Feb 2019

Do you support Maduro?

I think he has been a disaster for Venezuela, whatever you might have thought of Chavez. And the tide seems to be turning against him. I think at this point, anything that can convince Maduro to leave without violence would be helpful, though it's clear Maduro intends to strip the country of whatever it has left as he leaves.... I wouldn't be surprised if he takes the copper pipes with him!

EX500rider

(10,849 posts)
15. A clear majority of democratic western nations Vs all the authoritarian ones..
Mon Feb 4, 2019, 02:43 PM
Feb 2019

...like Russia, China, Iran, Cuba, Turkey, Syria and N Korea....that's some great company there.

PupCamo

(288 posts)
16. I've seen threads on here defending the North Korean government
Mon Feb 4, 2019, 02:46 PM
Feb 2019

there are plenty of trolls on this site

I've been a member off and on for more than 10 years I think. Had to abandon my previous account when I was scared I was releasing too much personal info.

moondust

(19,993 posts)
12. Is he an opportunist?
Mon Feb 4, 2019, 02:11 PM
Feb 2019

He's inexperienced but does he have enough experience, know-how, and key support to fix VZ? Or will he make things worse?

At this point many Venezuelans would probably vote for a three-toed sloth just to get rid of Maduro, and somebody may try to capitalize on that desperation.

EX500rider

(10,849 posts)
19. "Or will he make things worse?' Hardly possible.
Mon Feb 4, 2019, 02:52 PM
Feb 2019

There are severe shortages of basic items such as medicine and food, and an inflation rate that last year saw prices doubling every 19 days on average.

mahina

(17,668 posts)
25. Maybe they'd like to give that a go over here too. Helloooo
Tue Feb 5, 2019, 10:55 PM
Feb 2019

Please! Relieve us of this sniffing, can’t-read as well as a sixth grader, arrested development playground bully Russian ass kissing treasonous mfer.

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