My guess it is Trump himself.

The Trump campaign and being in attendance at the Trump Tower meeting with Jr. and Jared, Manafort's life is now forfeit.

If Russia sent Manafort to the Trump campaign knowing that greedy Trump would glom onto someone who offered to work for free, then they have significant hooks into Manafort. A few threats to use the poison the Kremlin has wielded in England on Manafort’s family would be enough to get his silence. After all, Putin wants to keep Trump in office as long as possible so he can use two more years to help weaken and potentially destroy the USA as a world leader—a role Putin desires for himself. If Manafort tells Mueller the truth, he is most likely the direct link to Teump’s knowledge and approval of conspiracy with a foreign power to steal a federal election.

Now, as to his wife and children finding Novichuk on their doorknobs or Polonium in their soup -- that is going to greatly depend on what Paulie says or doesn't say henceforth.

Remember those old stories about people who make a bargain with Satan? Satan always collects on his debts, he never forgets, and his reach is long. Whether or not you believe in a literal Devil, take it as a metaphor for the behavior of evil humans.

Manafort has spent his life tightrope walking over the Abyss and tapdancing on the edge of the Abyss, and I'm sure the adrenaline high has been magnificent. Now the bill has come due.

JMO -- I have believed from the first that Manafort fears Putin more than US federal prison, and he fears for his family's lives more than he fears for his freedom.

Though I agree his immediate family should be offered witness relocation-type services to keep them safe.

Seriously. Too disgusting to write here.

Therefore I could be wrong in supposing that even sentient shit like Paulie might harbor paternal feelings for his own.

And their communications with each other were intercepted and published, sadly.

That's how people know.

Although there comes a problem with such a pardon: IF he’s pardoned, then that means he HAS TO testify and can’t hide behind 5th Amendment protections. A pardon as I understand it removes the whole protection-from-self-incrimination thing. He’d HAVE TO cough it up in questioning under oath.

There’s another matter too, that COULD be in play here. Just speculation, but I suspect he’s been involved with enough skeevy people over there between Ukraine and The Kremlin that he knows what happens to people who get on Putin’s bad side.

He tells them. Even if there’s supporting documentation, A prosecutor would only call Manafort as a very last resort, and probably not even then.

He's certainly got one rather - um - funky track record. Who the hell would WANT to believe him, by now? Corrupt guy. Now completely self-corrupted.

Last edited Thu Feb 14, 2019, 03:01 AM - Edit history (1)

exonerate him at state level

Let's be honest, Vlad knows how to dispose of people. And the first person to suggest manafort is actually safe from Vlad in prison can enjoy some Polonium 238

It's Russian oligarchs. I think he and his family may be in real danger from them or on the other hand, his family is promised millions if he stays silent.

He really is/was a Russian agent.

He has damaging info on Trump but is withholding it in the hopes of being pardoned.
If Trump doesn't pardon him he may spill the beans in order to have his sentence reduced therefore Trump has to pardon him if he wants to ensure that Manafort keeps his mouth shut.

Of course once Manafort is out he could still release his info and he wouldn't be able to use the 5th to legally withhold what he knows.
Even if he is implicated in the crimes he couldn't be re-tried for them. There would certainly be attempts to get this out of him.

But Trump also has the Russian mafia as a backup threat to Manafort if he sings.
So pardoning Manafort would probably be the best option for Trump to protect himself.

The pundits on MSNBC Chris Hayes seem to think so.

It says so much about Paul Manafort. As leader of Trumps campaign, it says a whole lot about who appointed him campaign chairman...Manafort will go down hard...So hard, that he will not get up. And he deserves that.
...It is a clear warning to others who lie a lot.....Who do you suppose lies all the time? I can't imagine..now that is a lie...........sorry., I do it so rarely, I ain't good at lying, but there are many who do it always.......

I have watched politics a very long time...This is a first for me. I have not seen a plea deal voided because the person lied in dealing with the prosecutor, the judge, and the FBI. A first for me.

I’m asking for a friend.

They only count if they're lies OF COLOR!

Sheesh.


/snark

I’ll let my friend know!
Welcome to DU!

LOL yeah - "little white lies" are okay with these people. From "pResident Pinocchio on down.

for all the relevant actors are already drawn up and Trump could sign them faster than the Senate could take a vote on his guilt.

On the other hand, it would be rare for Trump to give a shit about anyone but himself.

All I know is we wouldnt be discussing this as if it is one of many stories of the day if any Democratic WH was dangling pardons for criminals who helped them steal an election and launder billions of dollars.

We would be watching impeachment hearings then indictments.

And we would do that OR ELSE the deplorables would burn down the entire place.

and he committed huge numbers of crimes that DT has been claiming have nothing to do with DT.

I hope you are right.

Link to tweet

spending the rest of your life in prison.
This goes deep, really deep.

If the prosecutors caught Manafort, then others who lied to the FBI, the judge, and the prosecutor will also be caught....And they deserve it if they lied like Manafort did. Do you suppose others lied to the FBI and the prosecutor?? Who would have that level of arrogance that he/she thinks that they can get away with that?
...........And..if others have already done that, there will be more of this...

Will add it to the OP!

I'll take it.

On second thought, save the coat! And give it to charity. Or auction it off and give the funds to charity.

Woopsie - not gonna happen.

I hope the judge asks Rudy Giuliani about these lies because he was the one who orchestrated the whole thing.
Quid pro quo! Rudy's time is up very soon.

Idiots don’t believe that the useful idiot will come a crapper.
More fools they.

I'm shocked, I tell you. Just shocked.

MF45 is going to have to come up with a doozy to change the narrative.

"national emergency" everyone keeps predicting he'll do.

own ass and most likely his family. They're not too discerning about who they prick with the end of an umbrella or give a Polonium-laced cocktail to, or who's in the area when they let loose some Novichok. He wouldn't even do this for POtuS.

nothing tying trump to anything directly. We know trump is guilty and worse, but it’s going to take proof and a Senate that cares.

Does anyone know what Manafort lied about? If it was something directly tying trump to collusion or something similar, that would be a good sign.

125k payment to another firm, lying about another DOJ investigation.

yup

If RUMP is proven to be CO-CONSPIRATOR, that could STOP ALL pardons. Hope i'm correct here.

Enjoy your stay at the crowbar hotel... asshole.

Where does this story go? Gonna be amazing?

Crossed-fingers anyway.

Kilimnik says they talked about bills and other stuff. So Klimnik is not the source. Gates? Do we know if anyone else was at the meeting? Emails confirming the meeting? (I doubt that as it seems it would have ended the investigation right there).

So what we got? Have I missed something or have we just not heard?

from the NYT -

It was not mostly publicly available polling as Manafort alleged, but private detailed polling data compiled by Trump campaign pollster

.... the "internal polling" stuff.

All he had to do was tell the fucking truth.

You make it sound so easy!

When was the last time you heard a republican tell the truth?

If that's the case, why would he give any more information since he's got nothing to gain? He may give only spite now.

Is any future deal possible? He'll go to his grave silent if he sees that he has nothing to bargain. Right?

Look at the financial crash of 2008. A few of the lesser names get jail time, while most of the higher ups may get a slap on the wrist if anything.

Manafort, Flynn, Cohen, Stone, etc are the cronies who will take the fall in all of this, ultimately protecting higher ups like Trump, Trump Jr, Pence from getting the gavel.

Manafort knows he stands a better chance of survival in prison than out in public where the Russians and Trump's mafia goons can get to him.

:

Doesn't matter who he's protecting. Probably Trump. Probably his Russian handlers. But as long as he lies, he holds out hope for a Trump pardon. And he could still be pardoned, right? And even if he's sentenced to 10 consecutive life terms, he'd be free as a bird, free to move to Ukraine, or Russia.

We are definitely in uncharted territory.

Add this to today's reporting that trump is going to declare a national emergency anyway. That trump begged hannity to frame the wall loss as a wall win. That fox refuses to air an ad about a short award-winning documentary about Naziism in America.

We're no longer at the point of waking up to the question, what fresh new hell awaits us today. We now have to ask that question upon waking up, after lunch, at dinner, and at bedtime.

were brought up in the federal case (we know that some that were did not prevail). Those ancillary charges could be brought up later or even by the state of VA assuming they violated state law - notably involving taxes and tax evasion (where any state charges would be out of reach for a pardon).