Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

mahatmakanejeeves

(57,466 posts)
Wed Feb 27, 2019, 09:02 PM Feb 2019

Supreme Court says inmate cannot be executed if dementia means he cannot understand punishment

Source: Washington Post

Courts & Law
Supreme Court says inmate cannot be executed if dementia means he cannot understand punishment

By Robert Barnes
February 27 at 3:26 PM

An inmate suffering from dementia may not be executed if his disease is so severe that he is not able to rationally understand the reason for his punishment, the Supreme Court ruled Wednesday.

Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. joined the court's four liberals in saying Alabama death-row inmate Vernon Madison deserves another chance to prove that strokes and worsening vascular dementia have left him unable to remember his crime or why the state wants to execute him.

[Supreme Court contemplates whether man who cannot recall crime may be executed] (1)

The court previously has ruled that the Eighth Amendment's prohibition on cruel and unusual punishment means those who suffer from pervasive delusions associated with schizophrenia and psychosis may not be put to death. ... Justice Elena Kagan, delivering the opinion for the majority in the 5-to-3 ruling, said the same logic applies to those who cannot understand the link between their crimes and punishment because of dementia. (2)
....

The court's three most conservative members -- Clarence Thomas, Samuel A. Alito Jr. and Neil M. Gorsuch -- dissented. (The case was argued before Brett M. Kavanaugh was confirmed to the court.) Those three had also objected when the Supreme Court in 2018 blocked Madison's execution. ... In a sharply worded opinion, Alito said that “what the court has done in this case makes a mockery of our rules.”
....

The case is Madison v. Alabama.

Robert Barnes has been a Washington Post reporter and editor since 1987. He joined The Post to cover Maryland politics, and he has served in various editing positions, including metropolitan editor and national political editor. He has covered the Supreme Court since November 2006. Follow https://twitter.com/scotusreporter

(1) https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/supreme-court-contemplates-whether-man-who-cannot-remember-crime-may-be-executed/2018/10/02/594732b8-c66e-11e8-9b1c-a90f1daae309_story.html

(2) https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/18pdf/17-7505_2d9g.pdf

Read more: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/supreme-court-says-inmate-cannot-be-executed-if-dementia-means-he-cannot-understand-punishment/2019/02/27/4135e2d0-3abf-11e9-aaae-69364b2ed137_story.html



Roberts sides with Supreme Court liberals in saying inmate cannot be executed if dementia means he cannot understand punishment


11 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Supreme Court says inmate cannot be executed if dementia means he cannot understand punishment (Original Post) mahatmakanejeeves Feb 2019 OP
Roberts must be very senistive to how his court will be remembered. bitterross Feb 2019 #1
I agree. He want people to think of the SCOUTS as a legitimate institution. nycbos Feb 2019 #3
But this isn't a major case DrToast Feb 2019 #8
I dunno. ANY death penalty case ruling is scrutinized bitterross Feb 2019 #9
Why is life in prison not good enough for these ghouls that support capital punishment? Jake Stern Feb 2019 #2
The desire for revenge is a natural human instinct. nycbos Feb 2019 #4
Eye for an eye keithbvadu2 Feb 2019 #5
Is death supposed to be a learning experience?? Shoonra Feb 2019 #6
LOL. How magnanimous of them! PSPS Feb 2019 #7
tЯump's neck is safe then crazytown Feb 2019 #10
What is interesting about this case is that Roberts is on the side of the Framers of the Constitutio rpannier Feb 2019 #11
 

bitterross

(4,066 posts)
1. Roberts must be very senistive to how his court will be remembered.
Wed Feb 27, 2019, 09:31 PM
Feb 2019

That's my best guess for why he shows a little bit of humanity from time to time. I hope, REALLY HOPE, that means he won't be in the bag for Trump when the time comes.

DrToast

(6,414 posts)
8. But this isn't a major case
Thu Feb 28, 2019, 01:09 AM
Feb 2019

I think he truly believes in this vote. Otherwise he could certainly have voted with the conservatives and nobody would have thought twice about it.

 

bitterross

(4,066 posts)
9. I dunno. ANY death penalty case ruling is scrutinized
Thu Feb 28, 2019, 01:46 AM
Feb 2019

I just can't agree it isn't a major case. Any time the court takes away the ability for the state to execute someone it's a big deal. In this case, they didn't preclude this specific person from being executed. They only opened the door for the lower court to find him too incompetent.

But, the bottom line is, they added another reason why a person cannot be executed and sent the case back to the lower court to see if this person meets the criteria. Roberts actually did follow the logic of earlier opinions on this sort of thing so he has the argument he followed prior rulings and precedent on his side.

Jake Stern

(3,145 posts)
2. Why is life in prison not good enough for these ghouls that support capital punishment?
Wed Feb 27, 2019, 09:42 PM
Feb 2019

Bloodlust is never truly sated, it is just pacified for a little while.

nycbos

(6,034 posts)
4. The desire for revenge is a natural human instinct.
Wed Feb 27, 2019, 09:58 PM
Feb 2019

Which is why the law should be better than that.


keithbvadu2

(36,817 posts)
5. Eye for an eye
Wed Feb 27, 2019, 10:11 PM
Feb 2019
http://www.adventistbiblicalresearch.org/Biblequestions/eyeforeye.htm

1. History of the legislation. The lex talionis is found in three passages in the
Old Testament (Ex. 21:23, 24; Lev. 24:19, 20; and Deut. 19:21). A similar law is found in
the ancient Mesopotamian code of Hammurabi. Earlier codes legislated financial
compensation for bodily injuries, but Hammurabi seems to have been the first to require
physical injury for physical injury. This has led some historians to conclude that there
was a time when monetary compensation redressed personal injuries because the state did
not consider them to be crimes against society.
The law of equivalency was a significant development in the history of
jurisprudence in the sense that what used to be a private matter between two families was
now taken over by the state and considered to be criminal behavior. This fits very well
with the Old Testament understanding of offenses against others as offenses against the
covenant community and against the God of the covenant.
2. The principle involved. The law of equivalency was an attempt to limit the
extent of a punishment and to discourage cruelty. The principle of this legislation is
one of equivalency; that is to say, the punishment should correspond to the crime and
should be limited to the one involved in the injury (Deut. 19:18-21).
This law was a rejection of family feuds and the spirit of revenge that led the
injured party to uncontrolled attacks against the culprit and the members of his or her
family (cf. Gen. 4:23). The punishment was required to fit the crime, a principle still
used in modern jurisprudence. I must add that in the Bible this law was applied equally
to all members of society (Lev. 24:22), while in Mesopotamia it was limited to crimes
against society's "important" people.

Shoonra

(521 posts)
6. Is death supposed to be a learning experience??
Wed Feb 27, 2019, 10:26 PM
Feb 2019

I had thought that the purpose of the death penalty was to rid the world of a murderer and to deter others from commiting a similar crime.

Now it appears that the condemned man is supposed to derive some lesson from the experience, presumably a lesson he can put to use ... when he's dead and buried by the end of the day.

It would appear that the man was not demented when he committed the murder, else that impairment would have made for a successful defense. It's not established that he's not being tormented by the symptoms of his dementia, so the absence of euthanasia is not necessarily more humane. Even demented, he might still be a danger to others so, yes, there's still a reason to put him down.

Am I the only one who thinks this is a bad decision?

rpannier

(24,329 posts)
11. What is interesting about this case is that Roberts is on the side of the Framers of the Constitutio
Thu Feb 28, 2019, 09:13 AM
Feb 2019

According to Michael Clemente, the Framers had a very broad definition of insanity, than the Court has used over time.
Guess who is a clerk for Roberts right now?

Oh, and it may have helped that Roberts got the Assistant Attorney General for Alabama to concede that Madison’s dementia may shield him from execution under Panetti, even though he isn’t delusional.

Michael Clemente Yale Law Journal
https://www.yalelawjournal.org/note/a-reassessment-of-common-law-protections-for-idiots

Latest Discussions»Latest Breaking News»Supreme Court says inmate...