A "campaign decoration" is an award whose only criteria is having served in a combat area, such as the Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal. This needs to go in there to keep wannabes from joining clubs like the VFW. (The VFW is very skilled at weeding out the wannabes--you need a discharge certificate with a campaign medal on it to get in the VFW--but the VFW isn't the only one of these clubs out there.)

If one really wanted to join a VFW, it's not as difficult as one would imagine.

... as actually served in-country. There are fewer than 750,000 of us left alive, and easily more than 2 million liars. Many, of course, are Viet Nam Era veterans who fought the Viet Cong in Oklahoma or Germany. It's annoying as hell.

I can barely walk for tripping "Vietnam Vets"

... during my first years back. It wasn't pleasant when coworkers were "amused" at my startle response to sudden loud noises. They'd slam a door or drop something and watch me get half-ways under my desk before I remembered where I was. I can't even count the number of times I was TOLD how misguided I was or how stupid I was for not moving to Canada ... just across the river from Detroit. Dealing with a mild case of PTSD (which wasn't really known about) and the "joy" of having returned to discover my wife of one year staying overnight with her lover -- and the annulment I obtained -- it just wasn't an easy time in the 70s. Thank Goddess I met some good people -- one gal in particular -- who were REAL '60s types' (not faddists) and gave me unconditional acceptance and support.

Then, in the early 80s, all the frauds crawled out of the woodwork. They became "the parade" we never got ... and every one of them was a "Rambo" of course. Most of 'em were obvious to me (if not to others) but the rampant fictions and falsehoods just added insult to injury.

It is because of guys like you and your generation that guys like me and my generation have as much support as we do when we come home from war. The VA, the recognition of PTSD, and a variety of extra benefits that are a huge reason I'm probably not dead or homeless right now. I don't know how I'd be able to survive without the help I get - and it is all because of the struggles that guys like you went though.

I don't know if it helps you at all, but your generation did make the county a better place for your children (my generation). Even if we still fight wars based on ambiguous politics, the country learned a valuable lesson on how to take care of its servicemembers. Thanks you!

NOBODY should have to go through what most of us went through (and CONTINUE to go through).

It's a no-win, fruitless, maddening experience. No matter what, folks seem to think they have license to kick us in the face. When I try to just describe my experience, I get insults and worse. I've NEVER wanted pity. I never wanted a medal. I've NEVER wanted an "attaboy." I've NEVER wanted anything but something better than betrayal and blame.

When I talk about a wife that was sleeping with her lover the night I returned frm Nam, the reaction is that it's either (1) my fault, or (2) asking for pity, or (3) both. NOBODY seems to comprehend that it was emblematic of the sense of BETRAYAL most of us felt.

When I talk about getting spit on going through SFO on the way "back home," I'm called a liar and, in effect, spit on again. The oh-so-enlightened 'liberals' trot out Lembcke's flawed pseudo-science to "prove" nobody was spit on ... a work that completely ignores the 400-500% "increase" in Viet Nam veterans in the 80s and the fact that Amerika was overrun by Faux Vets ... most of whom were LYING about EVERYTHING -- attempting to claim an experience by exploiting the shit that they themselves probably threw.

A lot of folks try to comfort themselves by claiming some belated "welcome home" was given, and totally ignore the fact that the spitting and betrayal continues every time one of us is (in effect) told to eat shit and die.

The theme is and was betrayal ... from Jane amusing herself by play-acting "Kill The Americans" on an anti-aircraft gun emplacement ... to the portrayal of "Rambo" as some out-of-control killer. We're all fucking nuts, didn't ya know?


It's been a long, hard struggle to get the message across that respecting Service is NOT the same as agreeing to the corrupt policies that started a war. The invasion of Iraq was a war crime. Nonetheless, I happen to know that one can serve honorably in a dishonorable war. Hating the war is NOT best-expressed as hate for the warrior. If anything, it's exactly what gets us the kind of corruption that Cheney/Bush personified.

Okinawa served as the main forward point prior to heading into theatre, and to this day he still claims no veteran status to Vietnam regardless of having the campaign ribbon.

I am one of those who served during the Viet Nam war but did not go to Viet Nam. The USAF had other plans for me but I was "frozen" for assignment for Viet Nam the entire time I served. I was constantly reminded of that by the lifers over me. At the time I served I could have gone over there. Fortunately my MOS was such that first term airmen usually did not go into combat situations. How would you like us who served during the fucking war but who were not in-country describe ourselves? Personally I see it as Viet Nam combat veterans (or combat veterans) and for those who where not in-country Viet Nam Era veterans.

I never lie about my service. I served and received my honorable discharge after my four years of active duty. I freely admit that I joined the USAF, requested an MOS that had one year of training so that my chances of not going to Viet Nam were lessened. I lucked out and I see nothing dishonorable about that. I saw the war as a total disaster when I was in high school despite the fact that my father was an officer and fighter pilot in the USAF. My family has been represented in every war since the Revolutionary War. I have a nephew (my brother's son) who is currently in Afghanistan.

There's no dishonor in serving and doing your damnedest to keep your head down.

You just don't GET IT. It's not surprising ... so few do. So, let me try to make it clearer.


I DON'T want "credit" or an "attaboy" or to be treated as some kind of "hero." Never did. Never will.
I don't know any (real) Viet Nam Vet who looks at it that way. It's hard to feel "heroic" when so much of the time in Nam was infuriating Mickey Mose nonsense and utter boredom, punctuated by short times of pants-pissing terror that the incoming is gonna blow you up or leave you without an arm or a leg. I don't know ANYONE I was with that felt particularly "heroic" or "brave." No fucking way. Every damned swinging dick was focused on one thing: counting down their own 365 and getting the fuck out of there. I don't know a single swinging dick that didn't envy guys like you ... or guys that managed to avoid the draft altogether. Even Jody. Everyone did it differently ... but nobody I ever knew was eager for medals or pats on the back. (Least of all... medals.)

That's the WHOLE POINT. It was a matter of survival ... and getting back to the real world.
All I EVER wanted was for my wife, family and friends to be glad I got back alive and in one piece.
The "welcome" I wanted wasn't a parade for "heroes" ... just relief and some expression of love.

Instead, it was a kick in the teeth. That's ESPECIALLY difficult to deal with when, as often happens, I felt some degree of "survivor's guilt." You see, we all went to Nam alone. And we came back alone. In between, we made friends that became closer than we'd ever had. We didn't fuck with each other. Long nights standing guard on some bunker line ... we talked. We shared parts of ourselves we'd never trusted anyone with before. We got drunk together. We trusted each other. Leaving Nam to go back to the world felt like abandoning friends.

For what? Just to survive. That's all.

Then we see all the "Rambos" ... guys claiming some kind of credit that it never even occurred to me to want. There are so fucking many of them that everyone misses the fucking point! Other people form their impressions MOSTLY from such frauds ... and the movies. It, Just. Ain't. That. Way.

For you to equate my annoyance to some "dishonor" for YOUR service is just nuts.

But there's a DIFFERENCE between surviving ... counting down 365 days and hoping you didn't get killed or (worse) maimed for life ... scared ... and doing your time stateside. A BIG difference. It's a difference tht can't be described. No matter how much you THINK maybe you "get it" from what I've said ... you don't.

I had friends who went to Viet Nam and came back changed in many ways and in many ways not for the good. I also had to watch them self-destruct in their personal lives or deaden the emotional pain with drugs or alcohol. I also so the aftermath of the war while working in a USAF hospital and saw Marines who had been wounded die after they came back from that hell.

No, I am not a combat vet but from you comments I guess I am to fucking stupid to understand anything. Over the years I have enjoyed your posts but at this point you can just fuck yourself and wallow in your own self-pity.

Good day and have a nice life.

I am a cold war submarine vet, The whole premise of a sub crew is trusting the guy next to you can save your life and save the boat if need be....and while I was never in anyone's line of fire directly, our mission was especially deadly...we carried 16 nuclear missiles carrying 150+ warheads of 200 kilotons apiece...that's a warhead 10 times more powerful than the Nagasaki bomb....that's nearly the equivalent to every explosion during WWII...on other boats we did spec ops with seals and marines....other boats we spied on countries and monitored hot zones...I never saw it for the danger it was until years afterward, but I can't even try to
Compare this to field combat and the constant cloud of death hanging over you.

My dad served as a grunt in Korea and applied for special forces afterwards...he was a no shit green beret....after his tours I grew up in panama at the school of America's where my father taught special ops...he was in country early, 64 and 65...but what he shared about his war experiences cemented my joining the navy! Very terrifying...dad never had screaming issues or PTSD that I saw, but there were plenty of times dad had "dead eyes" staring at the TV....I have a brother who was airborne too...his experiences were later in the war....was hurt during tet....did his year and went to Germany....the war took a piece of him....he's had lots of problems...

Thanks for doing your service....I'm glad your here today sharing your story....it means something to people that have had to trust a group of people in the same situations together. You never forget it or them....

fought the VC in Oklahoma or Germany, that's some funny shit there.
I have nothing but contempt for anyone who claims they served in VN when they really didn't.
I didn't know that there were only 750,000 of us left, I guess just like the WW2 and Korean vets, we are slowly disappearing into the dustbin of history.

but, there is no dust bin for those who gave in any capacity. I served in the cold war. Was ready, if needed, to do what ever was asked. Being there for ones country is what it is all about. Being in harms way takes on many faces. Never diminish your service to your country based on a critique from someone who cannot grasp the meaning of being a patriot.

I am proud of my 2 tours in VN and never shy away from it. I could have used a better phrase than dust bin of history.

did fly one mission, seeding clouds over the ho chi min trail. spent the rest of his hitch at fort ord launching weather balloons. never fired his rifle.
but oh boy, is he a warrior now.

Does this ridiculous money and time wasting bullshit make them feel important? They are still the "Do Nothing" but waste time, Congress, no matter how you look at it.

has surrounding the issue. They either admire the brave men and women who actually did go to fight for the freedom of many, during a time when nobody trusted this government and took it out on the soldiers instead of where it belonged. Or they feel guilty for not going for whatever reason. Copying is the highest complement. It does NOT take away from the honorable veterans in any way as far as I'm concerned. The money part is fraud and unfortunately has become common in our country. Look at our govenment. These people say they are civil servants, but the serve no one but themselves and their lobbyist owners. This is another diversion, my friends...to make you think they actually care about something they know NOTHING about.

Why did not a democrat have the political savvy to write this bill? Why was it left to the party of chickenhawks to do the right thing?



I lost a lot of friends here. I could have lost me.

Any dirt-bag falsely claiming to be a vet, much less a decorated vet, should go to prison - in my opinion.