Can we just please normalize relations with Cuba already???

The Cuban oligarchy fears normalization at this point.

While Miami burns... Obama and Cuban-American politics
ARTURO LOPEZ-LEVY , 12 September 2012

In this year's election, half of Cuban-Americans who are eligible to vote either came from Cuba after 1994 or grew up in the United States. Unfortunately, the White House is passing up the opportunity to hold a rational discussion of Washington’s policy towards Cuba.

US policy towards Latin America has paid a substantial price for President Obama’s kowtowing to the Miami hard-right wing. For example, Venezuela withdrew from the Inter-American Commission of Human Rights of the Organization of the Americas (OAS), and there is a chance that no Summit of the Americas will happen in 2015 unless the United States changes its position on Cuba’s participation. Several countries in the Americas, from Nicaragua to Ecuador, spent years without a US ambassador due to Senator Marco Rubio’s (R-FL) obstructionist caprice.

In a clear distortion of American values and presidential foreign policy prerogatives, the pro-embargo machine is taking the debate away from questions related to security threats and the constitutional right to travel theoretically enjoyed by Americans, to whether it is fine, or “ethical”, for an American traveler to smoke a cigar, drink a mojito, and dance salsa. Unfortunately, the Obama administration's Treasury and State Department have surrendered the constitutional and moral high ground. Could somebody in the administration ask Senator Rubio: what is the problem with Americans having a good time once they do their full share of religious, educational, and humanitarian work in Cuba? And exactly what threat does a mojito or a salsa dance pose to American national security?

http://www.opendemocracy.net/arturo-lopez-levy/while-miami-burns-obama-and-cuban-american-politics

Hundreds of thousands of Cubans fired from their government jobs to work in the private sector.

but you still are not providing anything to back up or document that
what you are saying has any relation to actual facts. No links to any
credible news source, nothing.

What you say is nothing more than your personal opinion, which is fine;
but it's not terribly persuasive in my universe.

One can easily see the effects of Cuban privatization if they so choose.

How does this? --> "The Cuban oligarchy fears normalization" (your statement up string)

Square with this? --> "Cuba Takes a Giant Step toward Privatization...
President Raúl Castro has given stern warnings that Cuba’s economy needs a radical overhaul, beginning with its workers. With as many as one million excess employees on the state payroll, Mr. Castro has said, the government is supporting a bloated bureaucracy that has sapped motivation and long sheltered a huge swath of the nation’s workers." (from one of the sites that your google search produced)
http://nearshoreamericas.com/cuba-transition-5306/

It won't.

They ran to escape the consequences of their corruption.

Everyone knows the Miami escoria has fought normalization, down to bombing normalization proponents, murdering them for decades.

You're about 90 miles off the mark.

The Cuban Oligarchy has only one position it can take with the increased privitization efforts.

While Miami burns... Obama and Cuban-American politics
While Miami burns... Obama and Cuban-American politics
Arturo Lopez-Levy , 12 September 2012

In this year's election, half of Cuban-Americans who are eligible to vote either came from Cuba after 1994 or grew up in the United States. Unfortunately, the White House is passing up the opportunity to hold a rational discussion of Washington’s policy towards Cuba.

US policy towards Latin America has paid a substantial price for President Obama’s kowtowing to the Miami hard-right wing. For example, Venezuela withdrew from the Inter-American Commission of Human Rights of the Organization of the Americas (OAS), and there is a chance that no Summit of the Americas will happen in 2015 unless the United States changes its position on Cuba’s participation. Several countries in the Americas, from Nicaragua to Ecuador, spent years without a US ambassador due to Senator Marco Rubio’s (R-FL) obstructionist caprice.

In a clear distortion of American values and presidential foreign policy prerogatives, the pro-embargo machine is taking the debate away from questions related to security threats and the constitutional right to travel theoretically enjoyed by Americans, to whether it is fine, or “ethical”, for an American traveler to smoke a cigar, drink a mojito, and dance salsa. Unfortunately, the Obama administration's Treasury and State Department have surrendered the constitutional and moral high ground. Could somebody in the administration ask Senator Rubio: what is the problem with Americans having a good time once they do their full share of religious, educational, and humanitarian work in Cuba? And exactly what threat does a mojito or a salsa dance pose to American national security?

According to Ellen Cragger from the Detroit Free Press, "the process of application for a people-to people-travel license grew up from six pages to more than a hundred. There has been also a massive slowdown on the responses of applications for new licenses and renewal of old ones for people-to people-travel."

More:
http://www.opendemocracy.net/arturo-lopez-levy/while-miami-burns-obama-and-cuban-american-politics

The oligarchy in Cuba, or the one in Miami?

Miami Cubans are increasingly irrelevant.

.

I thought they had a bit of a lock on Florida. You saying the 3rd generation doesn't vote as a block like the first two generation of cuban refugees?

The political power of Miami Cubans is dwindling quick as the first generation dies off. Why anti-Cuba politicians keep getting elected is probably due to the lag between generations dying off and because sentiments within the white voting bloc still leans toward the Miami Cubans.

They still have plenty of power to block normalization and they do often

But that power is dwindling. Do you dispute that?

and this can be seen with how Rubio called the shots and crashed the legal travel to Cuba with people to people trips

to the descendants of Batista

They've already begun privatizing everything.

All that's next are the casinos and then you'll have Batista-style capitalism like Russia after the fall of the Soviet Union.

Batista would be proud.

Where did you get that idea about prostitution? I'd like to see a link about that. Then I'll correct you since I understand what happened there starting in the 90s. You see I actually spent time there unlike you.

Where is your evidence about casinos, this is in your Lech Walesa inspired fantasy or something, you know there is a lot of disinformation out there, I think you're reading some crappy newsletters.

Please do send the proof for your statements, you're sounding ever rightward!

Again my views are those of the MAINSTREAM not just the Democratic party but 70% of Americans who don't hate Cuba and want hostilities to end.

The casinos are just the natural end result of implementing these policies.

Of course you know that prostitution is legal in Cuba and actually brush it off by saying it's not as bad as other Caribbean islands. After Mariela Castro went to Amsterdam she praised their model for prostitution.

That thread, ironically, was about the 99 year leases that rich corporate investors were making in Cuba.

So it's not really that silly to imagine the Casinos will return.

Now, is being against the degradation of women in an exploitive prostitution lifestyle "right wing"? No. It's decidedly left wing.

Is being against corporations having 99 year leases in Cuba "right wing"? No, fuck no it's not.

So you're just making shit up because you have nothing to contribute here but dishonest slanders.

That poor women turn tricks for money. Except in Cuba it is not legal, whether it is in a code or not it is discouraged vehemently. I agree with Mariela that the johns need to be the target of police action. Right now women are imprisoned after their third offense.

The degradation aspect is inherent in your choices. Anyone who makes those videos is selling young women as subject and doesn't give a shit about Cubans. If they did they would make a video about ending the blockade so Cubans would have a higher standard of living.

The right wing never thinks in those terms, it's just about shaming and blaming and making some holier than thou point that leaves out context.

As far as casinos, whatever, any nutter or blogger can proclaim anything. Cuba doesn't want that now and has prevented the majority of cruise ships even in their financial straights. They regulate to protect their citizens and as a result are much better off than many caribbean islands where HIV is rampant and cruise ships dominate.

http://www.cubastandard.com/2011/07/30/golf-course-condo-buyers-will-get-unlimited-ownership/

And the Cruise ships have returned: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40934819/ns/travel-cruise_travel/t/massive-cruise-ship-docks-cuba-amid-fanfare/

Of course, we've been over this before, and I don't get why you're being so nasty to me calling me a right winger.

I don't need to have it explained to me why people turn to prostitution. I am a socialist and I do not consider Cuba socialist because they have prostitution, among many other things.

Only right wing thinkers believe that Cuba wouldn't benefit from normalization.

The beneficiaries are the right wingers in Miami primarily.

The Cuban oligarchy will not because it will come crumbling down.

They will do what's necessary for security.

The embargo benefits both oligarchies on both sides.

and the increased tourism would serve to raise the standard of living.

You seriously don't get the place at all. No worry most right leaning people will agree with you so you have company.

Cuba is already going the way of Russia after the Eastern Bloc fell. Then, there are "leftists" who praise the Russian capitalist mafia state as well, so what can you do.

This is just a fact. You don't get that Cuba and the US have a unique history, that really is the most ridiculous comment and who cares about "leftists" and Russia, that has zero to do with it, my views are MAINSTREAM in the Democratic party, and even among some Republicans like Ryan pre-Romney and Jeff Flake, pa' que sepas.

Only if you see things in black and white, sure.

The right wing does not agree with me about anything in Cuba nor do I agree with the right wing on anything about Cuba. You just lack the nuance and the willingness to believe that I do not agree with them. Insults are par for the course though.

If you quote my views as being aligned with right wingers I can explain quite clearly how they do not agree.

You go on about the opposition but Wikileaks let us know that they are insignificant.

You don't recognize the role of the right wing when that is the cause of the problem

You insult the people of Cuba by implying that they don't think for themselves in their choices at all, a non-nuanced description that doesn't fly with the focus on identity in Cuba

At every chance you say something really ugly about casinos or prostitution without any recognition of what Cuba has done and continues to do to get rid of that.

Again my views and experience of Cuba are MAINSTREAM and those of the majority of Democrats and Americans.

This is why, for instance, I believe that they will overthrow the Cuban oligarchy soon enough.

I am far left of what you believe. I am against rent, for instance, and yet Cuba, after privatizing industry, is charging rent to businesses. This is horrific. It is decidedly anti-socialist and capitalist at its core.

I am tired of Cuba being bandied about as the way to do socialism because in the end it is not socialism that they have there, it is a type of crony capitalism where people get social services.

heard that phrase used to refer to anyone in Cuba or even in Miami.

I've paid pretty close attention to Cuba over the years (admittedly from a far leftist perspective), and the last time there was a true oligarchy in Cuba was in the days of Batista, AFAIK.

Did I miss something?

Cuban people are not allowed to actually run for candidacy for political positions. Nominations are done via an up and down yes no vote as decreed by The Party.

Eliécer Ávila describes a situation in Cuba where civilians are not allowed to have political say. http://www.democraticunderground.com/11082669

Yes, they do get to vote.

But the ballot looks like this:

Vote for candidate X.

Yes / No.

There is no choice as to who candidate X is. That is already predetermined by The Party.

is anything remotely resembling an 'oligarchy' operating in Cuba today since, according to you, nominations are decreed by "The Party" (by definition, not an oligarchy as you yourself define the term).

I'm afraid you're consciously or unconsciously adopting the standard right-wing frame of the situation by counter-revolutionaries in Miami and not looking at objective facts. To wit, the Cuban regime enjoys broad-based popular support of its people, probably because it has materially improved the lives and well being of many of those same people.

Ever taken a look at infant mortality stats during the Batista regime? Makes for interesting comparisons with the dirty, filthy Commie regime. Same goes for literacy, sexism, racism and other measures of cultural health and\or dysfunctionality. By almost any standard one chooses, the masses are better off now under Communism than they were under Batista and the real oligarchy that once ruled Cuba on behalf of western imperial interests.

it's just too close to home, and functioning relatively well, despite
the USofA's atrocious and vindictive treatment of Cuba under
Castro.

in spite of imposed and internal issues that are gargantuan for a little country they've shown the world what you can do with a little.

They have so many things that count: health, education, know-how, and something missing very often in the USA - community.

Obama does something about cuba in his second term .He needs to smoothen the relation ship because if he doesnt I dont know who will

and others in Latin America, they've neglected it too long.

For now I understand that they are focused on Republican armageddon. Later, I hope that Obama takes the risk to change a policy I am sure he sees as flawed if not ridiculous.

Else he would have to come out and declare Cuba a democracy which I don't see happening.

If we got back the house it's possible legislation would happen to strike down Helms-Burton though.