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jsr

(7,712 posts)
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 12:22 AM Sep 2012

Fanning furor, Justice Scalia says appeals court judge lied

Source: Reuters

(Reuters) - U.S. Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia on Monday escalated a war of words with a prominent appeals court judge, saying the judge lied in a recent criticism of Scalia's judicial philosophy.

Scalia, 76, the longest-serving justice and a leading conservative on the court, said Judge Richard Posner, of the 7th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, lied in a review in August of a book co-authored by Scalia.

In the review, Posner accused Scalia of deviating from his own strict, text-based approach to interpreting law when he struck down a District of Columbia handgun ban in 2008 by considering the legislative history behind the law.

"To say that I used legislative history is simply, to put it bluntly, a lie," Scalia said in an interview with Reuters Editor-in-Chief Stephen Adler.

Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/18/us-usa-court-scalia-idUSBRE88H06X20120918

41 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Fanning furor, Justice Scalia says appeals court judge lied (Original Post) jsr Sep 2012 OP
Just retire asshole. JRLeft Sep 2012 #1
Yeah, the place needs some airing out, you stinking crook. freshwest Sep 2012 #2
Unfortunately... WinstonSmith4740 Sep 2012 #9
Burger was appointed by Nixon as Chief Justice rsdsharp Sep 2012 #27
Oops! WinstonSmith4740 Sep 2012 #36
Yes please. progressoid Sep 2012 #13
Hey, Fat Nino! OnyxCollie Sep 2012 #3
When I was in law school ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2012 #4
you'd remember puking if you had read Scalia, 1StrongBlackMan Skittles Sep 2012 #5
I remember reading Scalia's opinion on Walmart v Dukes OnyxCollie Sep 2012 #6
AND, Posner's been 'conservative,' an economist/judge, elleng Sep 2012 #10
Absolutely ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2012 #22
that's how he rolls. try reading his bowers v hardwick opinion JudyM Sep 2012 #41
Can we get him more cholesterol for lunch? lonestarnot Sep 2012 #7
We should send a case of Krispy Kremes every day to his office. Hassin Bin Sober Sep 2012 #21
LOL. mmmmmmmmmm lonestarnot Sep 2012 #40
POSNER??? elleng Sep 2012 #8
Yep...attacking Posner is not a well-balanced move. nt msanthrope Sep 2012 #16
what we need is an Obama landslide, a senate majority defacto7 Sep 2012 #11
That guys is a royal prick. StrictlyRockers Sep 2012 #12
Term Limits on SCOTUS Members Along with LarryNM Sep 2012 #14
Mr Justice, oldsarge54 Sep 2012 #15
No shit. I read that opinion, (and actually thought it was a rare decent one by Fat Tony) Volaris Sep 2012 #18
I'm Not a Lawyer oldsarge54 Sep 2012 #26
His ego is what makes him talk, give interviews. The man could not be more full of himself if he Dustlawyer Sep 2012 #17
they should keep their comments to the court or formal papers, that would be the class move... trailmonkee Sep 2012 #19
I've read three books by Posner. I've appeared before him in court. I've read his opinions. ChairmanAgnostic Sep 2012 #20
I argued before Posner? ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2012 #23
actually, the panel just wanted me to sit down and shut up. ChairmanAgnostic Sep 2012 #32
Oops ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2012 #35
I recall arguing before 7th Circuit, elleng Sep 2012 #37
Will be very good to see, elleng Sep 2012 #31
Scalia is a pig. annabanana Sep 2012 #24
Posner... Obama's next appointee? annabanana Sep 2012 #25
Bad idea for several reasons onenote Sep 2012 #33
Didn't Scalia say that the line about "a well-regulated militia" is just a "rhetorical flourish?" nt Ian David Sep 2012 #28
I'm no lawyer. Is that, by chance, an impeachable offense in some way? I keep waiting for silvershadow Sep 2012 #29
No criticism is not impeachable. former9thward Sep 2012 #38
Scalias days are numbered zorro1 Sep 2012 #30
it says something when a clear conservative is at war with a nutbag conservative. librechik Sep 2012 #34
I'm sure the esteemed jurist that Posner is, will hand a nice smackdown to Scalia Panasonic Sep 2012 #39

WinstonSmith4740

(3,056 posts)
9. Unfortunately...
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 01:07 AM
Sep 2012

As much as I'd like to see that, after Obama wins in November, he won't. He'll never retire as long as Obama gets to name his successor. As long as there's a Democrat in the White House, they're going to have to carry him out.

He came in under Reagan, and I remember my husband being really uneasy about it. He always considered him kind of a "stealth" candidate. He came in under the radar 'cause he took Warren Burger's place on the court when Burger was made Chief Justice. It was viewed at the time as just one conservative replacing another, but in listening to the hearing, Mike realized then just how scary this guy could be. He was certainly right.

rsdsharp

(9,186 posts)
27. Burger was appointed by Nixon as Chief Justice
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 11:31 AM
Sep 2012

When Burger retired, Associate Justice William Rehnquist was nominated to take his place, and Scalia took Rehnquist's.

On the DC Circuit Scalia voted to end the FCC's Fairness Doctrine. That decision led directly to the rise of right wing talk radio.

WinstonSmith4740

(3,056 posts)
36. Oops!
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 08:41 PM
Sep 2012

Right you are! I though Nixon had just appointed him to the Supreme Court, but now that I think about it, didn't Reagan tempt Burger away with some big time job that made him retire so Rehnquist could step up? I just remember the whole thing being kind of creepy, especially the Fairness Doctrine being overturned. The Rethugs actually used the argument that demanding both sides of position be presented somehow gave people less information, or some such bullshit.

But then again, Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
4. When I was in law school ...
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 12:48 AM
Sep 2012

I remember reading Posner's Opinions and coming away thinking, "Okay, that makes sense" (whether I liked the outcome or not). More, his writings on Contracts, Torts and Federalism that helped me understand those areas of law ... I don't recall reading a single thing penned by Scalia.

elleng

(130,974 posts)
10. AND, Posner's been 'conservative,' an economist/judge,
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 01:09 AM
Sep 2012

and VERY well respected, considered for Supremes over the years.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
22. Absolutely ...
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 11:19 AM
Sep 2012

I learned to respect Posner's legal reasoning on matters that I was/am, politically, diametrically opposed to.

Since posting my original remark, I pulled, at random, 7 Opinions covering various topic, written by Scalia (while on the SCOTUS and the Appellate Court). After reading them, I was left with a feeling that he started with a desired result, then gathered law to support that result; rather than, what is customary (and proper), i.e., use the existing law to inform one's opinion.

And from listening to him speak and reading other articles ... I get the distinction impression that he believes himself to be the smartest, most cunning, man in the universe.

JudyM

(29,251 posts)
41. that's how he rolls. try reading his bowers v hardwick opinion
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 11:22 PM
Sep 2012

so vitriolic and mean-spirited i'd never seen anything like it, seething with homophobic contempt, voting to uphold georgia's sodomy law using the bible for support!!! there's some strict construction for you.

defacto7

(13,485 posts)
11. what we need is an Obama landslide, a senate majority
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 01:58 AM
Sep 2012

and a congressional majority... impeach a couple of these fascists for treason or bad lunch choices, and get on with getting this country free and sound.

LarryNM

(493 posts)
14. Term Limits on SCOTUS Members Along with
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 02:55 AM
Sep 2012

strict controls on Senate Filibusters and abolition of the Electoral College. Perhaps if this nation does not do these things, then the nation that replaces it will.

oldsarge54

(582 posts)
15. Mr Justice,
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 05:47 AM
Sep 2012

I've got a copy of your comments on District of Columbia vs Heller. You sir, are the one standing on an untruth.

Volaris

(10,272 posts)
18. No shit. I read that opinion, (and actually thought it was a rare decent one by Fat Tony)
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 08:41 AM
Sep 2012

but to state that he did NOT in fact, cite legislative, common law history going back to pre-colonial Britain is just a straight-up LIE. (Maybe he's starting to go senile as he progresses in years?) To rip into a fellow Justice over this strikes me as juvenile and unprofessional. You'd think a Supreme Court Justice (OF ALL fucking people) would have developed a thicker hide...

oldsarge54

(582 posts)
26. I'm Not a Lawyer
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 11:30 AM
Sep 2012

Just a retired GI and school teacher, but I wonder how he just deleted the first 13 words of the 27 words in the 2nd Amendment? That's 40% of the whole amendment struck out of the record. (40.9%) Then again, I'm no legal beagle, I didn't follow his logic.

Dustlawyer

(10,495 posts)
17. His ego is what makes him talk, give interviews. The man could not be more full of himself if he
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 08:31 AM
Sep 2012

tried! As far as him being a Koch sucker along with his own mini-me, Clarence Thomas, that's for the money and a suck up to POWER! He loves the affirmation he gets when he does a good job for those rich bastards.

trailmonkee

(2,681 posts)
19. they should keep their comments to the court or formal papers, that would be the class move...
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 09:54 AM
Sep 2012

this war of words stuff is unbecoming

ChairmanAgnostic

(28,017 posts)
20. I've read three books by Posner. I've appeared before him in court. I've read his opinions.
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 09:54 AM
Sep 2012

In a battle of wits, or in this case, a wit and a halfwit, Scalia will be the clear loser.

Posner recently had a change of heart, especially in the battles between the little guy and big, bad corporations (including employers).

He will be shaping some new law, I suspect.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
23. I argued before Posner? ...
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 11:25 AM
Sep 2012

Wow! There are few individuals in this world whose mere presense would rattle me ... Posner would be one of them. It would be like being a cornerback trying to cover a receiver whose Football Card, one refused to trade.

ChairmanAgnostic

(28,017 posts)
32. actually, the panel just wanted me to sit down and shut up.
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 01:08 PM
Sep 2012

the facts and the law were so clearly on my client's side, that I probably said to much as it was. Nervous? ewe betcha.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
35. Oops ...
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 01:48 PM
Sep 2012

I meant to write "You" argued before Posner. But I guess you understood.

the facts and the law were so clearly on my client's side, that I probably said to much as it was.


I'm sure you've heard:

"If the law is on your side ... pound the law. If the facts are on your side ... pound the facts. If neither, the law nor the facts are on your side pound the table and talk real loud."

So now we can add:

"If both the law and the facts are on your side ... Shut the heck up; while the panel pounds your opponent!"

elleng

(130,974 posts)
37. I recall arguing before 7th Circuit,
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 09:36 PM
Sep 2012

appointed case, not long after admission, and thought: If I can do THIS, I can do ANYTHING!!!
I did, Court thanked me for my 'service,' and client lost.
No idea WHO was on the panel. Was in mid-'70s.

onenote

(42,714 posts)
33. Bad idea for several reasons
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 01:19 PM
Sep 2012

Not the least of which is that Posner is 73 years old. Also, despite the fawning over him by some on this thread, one should keep in mind that Posner was comrade in arms with none other than Robert Bork in developing a legal theory that effectively guts antitrust law. And he dissented from a decision that struck down on first amendment grounds a law that made it illegal to videotape public events, such as an arrest, without consent of those being taped.

We can do better.

Ian David

(69,059 posts)
28. Didn't Scalia say that the line about "a well-regulated militia" is just a "rhetorical flourish?" nt
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 11:33 AM
Sep 2012
 

silvershadow

(10,336 posts)
29. I'm no lawyer. Is that, by chance, an impeachable offense in some way? I keep waiting for
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 11:55 AM
Sep 2012

him to finally snap in some impeachable way.

former9thward

(32,025 posts)
38. No criticism is not impeachable.
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 10:15 PM
Sep 2012

Nor is name calling or anything like that. No Supreme Court Justice has ever been impeached and convicted in the country's history. There have been many attempts but none have ever gotten anywhere.

zorro1

(27 posts)
30. Scalias days are numbered
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 12:38 PM
Sep 2012

It won't be long before this sweaty, obese GOP insider falls over dead. Our country will be better off and hopefully his mid evil judicial philosophy will go with him.

librechik

(30,674 posts)
34. it says something when a clear conservative is at war with a nutbag conservative.
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 01:40 PM
Sep 2012

I await the conclusion with little hope and much amusement.

 

Panasonic

(2,921 posts)
39. I'm sure the esteemed jurist that Posner is, will hand a nice smackdown to Scalia
Tue Sep 18, 2012, 10:16 PM
Sep 2012

after a recent history of Bush v Gore.

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