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crazytown

(7,277 posts)
Mon Aug 12, 2019, 06:06 AM Aug 2019

Russia honours 'national heroes' killed in mysterious nuclear rocket blast

Source: The Guardian

Russia has bestowed posthumous awards and praised as “national heroes” five nuclear scientists who died in a mysterious explosion at sea during a rocket engine test.

Officials have been drip-feeding information about the blast on a platform in the White Sea off northern Russia on Thursday that caused a radiation spike in a nearby city.

US-based nuclear experts said they suspected the explosion occurred during the testing of a nuclear-powered cruise missile vaunted by the Russian president Vladimir Putin last year.

The rocket’s fuel caught fire, causing it to detonate and knock several people into the sea.

Read more: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/aug/12/russia-honours-national-heroes-killed-in-mysterious-nuclear-rocket-blast

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Russia honours 'national heroes' killed in mysterious nuclear rocket blast (Original Post) crazytown Aug 2019 OP
Hmmm. . . n/t MBS Aug 2019 #1
The old Soviet model for engineering rocket motors is trial and success. gordianot Aug 2019 #2
correction: trial by death then success. LOL nt Javaman Aug 2019 #11
Well yes hopefully you get one that does not kill your workers. gordianot Aug 2019 #12
I saw this happen in a stargate episode once i think Garion_55 Aug 2019 #3
Great, now all I can think about is the latest season of "Stranger Things" NickB79 Aug 2019 #4
There's all sorts of speculation about what this is really about. hunter Aug 2019 #5
Is this the gizmo in 'The Martian' with Matt Damon? keithbvadu2 Aug 2019 #6
One of my criticisms of the movie... hunter Aug 2019 #7
We have avoided using RTG on any Mars landers, and hopefully will continue that policy. lagomorph777 Aug 2019 #10
Sorry. The Curiosity Mars rover is nuclear powered. hunter Aug 2019 #14
Thanks for the correction! lagomorph777 Aug 2019 #18
have you heard of the arms control wonk podcast? Javaman Aug 2019 #13
I didn't see that. Thanks for the link. hunter Aug 2019 #15
GOP backed putin is a very dangerous dictator. nt yaesu Aug 2019 #8
Russian oligarchs should kick in some cash on such projects so oasis Aug 2019 #9
What is a "nuclear-powered cruise missile"? JustABozoOnThisBus Aug 2019 #16
I have no idea how it works. crazytown Aug 2019 #17
According to the BBC Blue_Tires Aug 2019 #19
"simple to shoot down" crazytown Aug 2019 #20

gordianot

(15,242 posts)
2. The old Soviet model for engineering rocket motors is trial and success.
Mon Aug 12, 2019, 06:22 AM
Aug 2019

Build it, try it, hope it doesn’t kill you when it blows up. Eventually you get one that works. That is why the majority of rocket motors today (even used by NASA) trace their origin to the old Soviet Union built under license. Too bad about those failures if the fuel is radioactive.

gordianot

(15,242 posts)
12. Well yes hopefully you get one that does not kill your workers.
Mon Aug 12, 2019, 12:31 PM
Aug 2019

Plenty of the dead in the old workers paradise that only got rebranded.

Garion_55

(1,915 posts)
3. I saw this happen in a stargate episode once i think
Mon Aug 12, 2019, 07:16 AM
Aug 2019

might have been a godzilla movie.

neither ended well if i remember right

hunter

(38,321 posts)
5. There's all sorts of speculation about what this is really about.
Mon Aug 12, 2019, 09:51 AM
Aug 2019

Perhaps a hot radioisotope might be used to bring conventional easy to handle fuels and oxidizers, such as kerosene and liquid oxygen, to a temperature where they are hypergolic.



A pellet of PuO2 as used in the RTG for the Cassini and Galileo missions. (wikipedia)

Conventional hypergolic propellants, such as dinitrogen tetroxide and hydrazine, tend to be toxic and otherwise difficult to store and handle.

An actual nuclear powered rocket test, as opposed to a hot radioisotope assisted chemical rocket, would be a nuclear catastrophe, "successful" or not.

For example, the U.S.A.'a "Project Pluto" of the early 'sixties.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Pluto





keithbvadu2

(36,836 posts)
6. Is this the gizmo in 'The Martian' with Matt Damon?
Mon Aug 12, 2019, 10:18 AM
Aug 2019

Is this the gizmo in 'The Martian' with Matt Damon?

hunter

(38,321 posts)
7. One of my criticisms of the movie...
Mon Aug 12, 2019, 10:37 AM
Aug 2019

... why bother with solar panels if you have nuclear power?

Mars ain't gonna give a shit.

Like most anywhere beyond low earth orbit, the surface of mars is bombarded with too much ionizing radiation for human habitation.


lagomorph777

(30,613 posts)
10. We have avoided using RTG on any Mars landers, and hopefully will continue that policy.
Mon Aug 12, 2019, 11:40 AM
Aug 2019

RTG are an amazing technology, but not a great idea for a place we might want to live on some day.

Voyager 1 and 2 were launched in 1977, and are now in interstellar space, and still transmitting scientific data to us. They run on RTG.

hunter

(38,321 posts)
14. Sorry. The Curiosity Mars rover is nuclear powered.
Mon Aug 12, 2019, 01:07 PM
Aug 2019




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curiosity_%28rover%29

As a chunk of metal or metal oxide plutonium isn't horrifically dangerous . But as a fine dust it's nothing you'd want to inhale or eat. There are plenty of common non-radioactive substances, including substances having a half life of forever, that are more toxic.

Ordinary gasoline and used motor oil are carcinogens and teratogens but nobody cares about those.

Concern about the RTG in "The Martian" was overwrought. One would assume astronauts wouldn't be the sort who'd break open an RTG with a hammer or a rock to see what's inside, not unless the natural Martian background radiation had already fried their minds and bodies, or they'd been partying too hard with ethanol, various oxides of nitrogen, and pharmaceuticals taken from the med kit.

Okay, maybe it wasn't overwrought. Mars is a horrible place to live. On earth a remote arctic or antarctic research station in the dark of winter is a tropical paradise compared to mars. Best make the RTG inaccessible to anyone who has lost their mind.


Javaman

(62,531 posts)
13. have you heard of the arms control wonk podcast?
Mon Aug 12, 2019, 12:32 PM
Aug 2019

last year they talked about the russians creating their own project pluto and just how horrifically awful of an idea that was.

when this thing exploded during a missile test and then the report of a nuke spike, this was the first thing I thought of as well.

here's a link to the podcast. it can be dry at times, but never the less it's still really interesting.

https://www.armscontrolwonk.com/

hunter

(38,321 posts)
15. I didn't see that. Thanks for the link.
Mon Aug 12, 2019, 01:17 PM
Aug 2019

These are scary times.

I'm certain Trump's bosses wish they had the same autocratic powers the bosses in Russia and China have.

oasis

(49,394 posts)
9. Russian oligarchs should kick in some cash on such projects so
Mon Aug 12, 2019, 10:53 AM
Aug 2019

"national heroes" aren't forced to work with second rate, half assed assembled equipment.

JustABozoOnThisBus

(23,354 posts)
16. What is a "nuclear-powered cruise missile"?
Mon Aug 12, 2019, 02:20 PM
Aug 2019

Does nuclear energy power the propellers? Or impellers? Or whatever is providing thrust to keep it aloft? Or does it use more traditional fuel, and then carry a nuclear warhead?

crazytown

(7,277 posts)
17. I have no idea how it works.
Mon Aug 12, 2019, 02:24 PM
Aug 2019

Wiki entry

"9M730 Burevestnik is a Russian experimental nuclear-powered, nuclear- armed cruise missile under development for the Russian Armed Forces"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9M730_Burevestnik

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
19. According to the BBC
Mon Aug 12, 2019, 05:27 PM
Aug 2019

the heat from the reactor provides the thrust...

This missile as a result will be very slow-moving relatively (subsonic) and as simple to shoot down as a conventional subsonic aircraft, but it would be highly controllable and theoretically able to stay in the air indefinitely... (If they can actually make it work, of course).

The USAF in the late 50s and 60s experimented with this, but it was an engineering and environmental nightmare...

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