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brooklynite

(94,597 posts)
Mon Oct 7, 2019, 10:52 AM Oct 2019

Boris Johnson will speak to Trump if US refuses to waive immunity for diplomat's wife

Source: Politico

LONDON — Boris Johnson has urged the U.S. to reconsider giving immunity to the wife of a diplomat who is a suspect in a fatal road crash in the U.K. — and will raise the issue with Donald Trump if that doesn't happen.

Teenager Harry Dunn died when his motorbike collided with a car near an RAF base in Northamptonshire on August 27, the prime minister's spokesperson said on Monday.

A U.S. diplomat's wife, named as Anne Sacoolas, left the U.K. despite telling police she had no plans to, the BBC reported.

Johnson told ITV News: "I do not think that it can be right to use the process of diplomatic immunity for this type of purpose. And I hope that Anne Sacoolas will come back and will engage properly with the processes of law as they are carried out in this country."


Read more: https://www.politico.eu/article/boris-johnson-us-should-reconsider-diplomatic-immunity-over-fatal-crash/



Why do I imagine Johnson is going to be another ally who discovers what Trump thinks of "loyalty"?
19 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Boris Johnson will speak to Trump if US refuses to waive immunity for diplomat's wife (Original Post) brooklynite Oct 2019 OP
This airhead had been in the UK for three weeks and was driving ON THE WRONG SIDE. CurtEastPoint Oct 2019 #1
It was not intentional murder. It was a mistake MaryMagdaline Oct 2019 #2
Diplomatic immunity is to prevent political issues, not to be a get out of jail free card bitterross Oct 2019 #6
It was a "mistake" for her to be driving Boomer Oct 2019 #14
All of that is true MaryMagdaline Oct 2019 #16
The law can be waived, that is the point obamanut2012 Oct 2019 #18
I've driven in Britain and Australia Retrograde Oct 2019 #17
A lot of people are dead or in prison for mistakes with unintended consequences IronLionZion Oct 2019 #15
I seem to remember several nations pulling this crap on us in the not too distant past. TreasonousBastard Oct 2019 #3
So we should follow and not lead? bitterross Oct 2019 #7
No.That's not what I meant, although I admit it could be taken that way. TreasonousBastard Oct 2019 #10
Its claimed someone on the American side made her leave.... Historic NY Oct 2019 #4
Trump will probably try to extort some Biden smear materials in exchange. Thomas Hurt Oct 2019 #5
THIS BumRushDaShow Oct 2019 #8
Do we ever waive immunity? Sgent Oct 2019 #9
We ask others to wave immunity Midnightwalk Oct 2019 #11
Any guess as to how much Trump will try to extort from the ambassador to keep her in the U.S. usaf-vet Oct 2019 #12
Oh, I imagine he's about see how tRump treats his *friends*. Texin Oct 2019 #13
Nut vs. Nut. Vinca Oct 2019 #19

CurtEastPoint

(18,650 posts)
1. This airhead had been in the UK for three weeks and was driving ON THE WRONG SIDE.
Mon Oct 7, 2019, 10:56 AM
Oct 2019

She absolutely must be held accountable. That diplomatic immunity bullshit was not mean for this type of tragedy.

MaryMagdaline

(6,855 posts)
2. It was not intentional murder. It was a mistake
Mon Oct 7, 2019, 11:00 AM
Oct 2019

Either the law means something or it doesn’t. She has immunity under the law.

 

bitterross

(4,066 posts)
6. Diplomatic immunity is to prevent political issues, not to be a get out of jail free card
Mon Oct 7, 2019, 11:15 AM
Oct 2019

The law is intended to prevent political prosecutions. It is not meant to be a get out of jail free card. It isn't meant to protect people from such obvious wrong-doing. Would you like them to grant immunity to drug smugglers? it can, and should be in this case, waived by the US.

Using it in a cases like this only weakens it for times when it is really needed.

It sounds like a terrible accident, but she must face the consequences.

Boomer

(4,168 posts)
14. It was a "mistake" for her to be driving
Mon Oct 7, 2019, 12:30 PM
Oct 2019

This is not that different from killing someone while driving drunk. There might not be any intention to kill anyone, but there is a disregard for the risk and consequences of their actions when they picked up a drink.

Driving in a country with a different road system is really challenging and I'm curious whether the woman had driver's training, passed tests, took any measures to deal with the opposite-side-of-the-road configurations. This woman was obviously unprepared to drive in England, and she killed someone. Let the courts decide the appropriate sentence for that lapse of judgment.

MaryMagdaline

(6,855 posts)
16. All of that is true
Mon Oct 7, 2019, 12:54 PM
Oct 2019

The issue is do we abide by the law or change the law? Ignoring it is not an option.

Retrograde

(10,137 posts)
17. I've driven in Britain and Australia
Mon Oct 7, 2019, 01:06 PM
Oct 2019

It's not that difficult - if you keep alert all the time and pay attention to what you're doing (which you should do while operating a vehicle in the first place). Parallel parking can be a challenge, but for the most part you just translate everything from left to right and follow what the local traffic does. (It did help that my first experiences with right-hand drive was in Tasmania, where what people there are tend to drive in the middle of the road )

IronLionZion

(45,454 posts)
15. A lot of people are dead or in prison for mistakes with unintended consequences
Mon Oct 7, 2019, 12:44 PM
Oct 2019

The British government is asking the US to waive diplomatic immunity.

It's been waived before in cases where people were killed, raped, abused, etc.

 

bitterross

(4,066 posts)
7. So we should follow and not lead?
Mon Oct 7, 2019, 11:18 AM
Oct 2019

Did you mean to sound like Trump? It sounds like you are saying, "Well, everyone else does it."

That is not the way you lead. Of course, I guess we can choose to give up all pretense of being a leader in the world now. We have Trump as an excuse. I would hope we're better than that.

BumRushDaShow

(129,096 posts)
8. THIS
Mon Oct 7, 2019, 11:29 AM
Oct 2019

The "he will speak to the White House "'personally'" line from the OP article's ITV News tweet, was the opening round to get those illegal favors going...

And of course one big "favor" might end up being a huge obvious one that would probably be related to Christopher Steele.

Sgent

(5,857 posts)
9. Do we ever waive immunity?
Mon Oct 7, 2019, 11:33 AM
Oct 2019

I know at one time we didn't as a general practice. We would prosecute them here in some cases, but we didn't waive immunity for anyone.

I don't think that anyone really thinks the UK is problematic in this situation, but what happens if a questionable situation arises in a non 5 eye's country where we think there is undue influence (say Italy or Greece)? Does waiving immunity here put us in an untenable position later?

Midnightwalk

(3,131 posts)
11. We ask others to wave immunity
Mon Oct 7, 2019, 11:59 AM
Oct 2019

From Wikipedia

If a person with immunity is alleged to have committed a crime or faces a civil lawsuit, the State Department asks the home country to waive immunity of the alleged offender so that the complaint can be moved to the courts


It comes down to applying principles.

Diplomatic immunity was developed to allow for the maintenance of government relations, including during periods of difficulties and armed conflict.


We are not questioning the impartiality or fairness of the UK legal system. We absolutely should wave immunity. Using immunity for cases like this weakens it.

Fleeing jurisdiction seems to make no sense in this case. I assume the police had gathered blood samples to determine if drugs or alcohol were involved and that she would have been arrested and held if they had been.

What are the penalties in the UK for killing someone in a car accident? I’m guessing they aren’t that steep?

This smacks of affluenza. She didn’t want the bother of dealing with the legal process and potential penalty. People of her stature don’t deserve to deal with lowly matters like that.

usaf-vet

(6,189 posts)
12. Any guess as to how much Trump will try to extort from the ambassador to keep her in the U.S.
Mon Oct 7, 2019, 12:10 PM
Oct 2019

Five figures? Six figures? That is what you get when you sign on with Trump.

Texin

(2,596 posts)
13. Oh, I imagine he's about see how tRump treats his *friends*.
Mon Oct 7, 2019, 12:28 PM
Oct 2019

Unless your name starts with P and ends with N, tRump's got no fucks to give about anyone else.

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