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BumRushDaShow

(129,305 posts)
Fri Oct 11, 2019, 10:27 AM Oct 2019

Trump loses appeal to stop House subpoena of his tax documents

Source: CNN

Washington (CNN) President Donald Trump on Friday lost his appeal to stop a House subpoena of his tax documents from his longtime accountant Mazars USA. In a 2-1 ruling, the US Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit upheld a lower court ruling saying the firm must turn over eight years of accounting records.

It's the first major case at the appeals court level in the ongoing standoff between the House and Trump. The President has lost all of his challenges so far that have been decided at the trial court level to stop House subpoenas. Trump may appeal to the Supreme Court to stop Mazars, but courts including the Supreme Court previously have refused to curtail Congress' subpoena power.

The appeals court broadly supported the House's power to subpoena information about Trump as it investigates him and considers laws in response, calling the subpoena "valid and enforceable." "A congressional committee, as committees have done repeatedly over the past two centuries, issued an investigative subpoena, and the target of that subpoena, questioning the committee's legislative purpose, has asked a court to invalidate it," the majority opinion states. "The fact that the subpoena in this case seeks information that concerns the President of the United States adds a twist, but not a surprising one."

Judges David Tatel, an appointee of President Bill Clinton, wrote the majority opinion, joined by Judge Patricia Millett, an appointee of President Barack Obama. Trump appointee Judge Neomi Rao dissented. Though the court's decision was split, the case is widely considered to be a tough one for Trump, even with support from the Justice Department.

Read more: https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/11/politics/trump-mazars-appeal-decision/index.html



to demmiblue for a post in GD with the below tweet - https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212570819



TEXT
Andrew Desiderio
?Verified account @AndrewDesiderio

BREAKING: Appeals Court has REJECTED Trump's appeal of the House Oversight Committee's subpoena for his financial records.

Big win for House Democrats.
7:05 AM - 11 Oct 2019




Original article -

Washington (CNN)President Donald Trump on Friday lost his appeal to stop a House subpoena of his tax documents from his longtime accountant Mazars USA.

In a 2-1 ruling, the US Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit upheld a lower court ruling saying the firm must turn over eight years of accounting records.

This story is breaking and will be updated.


35 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Trump loses appeal to stop House subpoena of his tax documents (Original Post) BumRushDaShow Oct 2019 OP
2-1? awesomerwb1 Oct 2019 #1
I had posted the breakdown of the D.C. Appeals Ct. a couple days ago and I think it is 7(D)-4(R). BumRushDaShow Oct 2019 #3
She's a Trump appointee. She took Kavanaugh's seat. OliverQ Oct 2019 #20
She sounds like a real political hack. Of course DeminPennswoods Oct 2019 #26
What will MF45 try next to keep from turning over the tax documents? CottonBear Oct 2019 #2
They'll probably ask for a stay from the SCOTUS BumRushDaShow Oct 2019 #4
Thanks so much for the reply and the Supreme Court link. CottonBear Oct 2019 #7
The Justice for the US Court of Appeais For the 2nd Circuit is Ruth Bader Ginsberg. Location of the ancianita Oct 2019 #11
Yes but this ruling came out of the D.C. Circuit BumRushDaShow Oct 2019 #13
I see. Okay, then. Thanks. I mistakenly read a Bloomberg report from Oct 8. ancianita Oct 2019 #14
I was just looking at the GD thread and there was a comment reminding people about the 2 cases BumRushDaShow Oct 2019 #18
Thanks. Exactly the memory issue I had. But I attribute it to news outlets' sloppy omissions more ancianita Oct 2019 #19
Probsbly buy a dog whistler162 Oct 2019 #34
So riddle me this. If Trump is convinced he could shoot someone on 5th. Ave and not lose a vote..... usaf-vet Oct 2019 #5
Being poor Tiggeroshii Oct 2019 #24
Supreme Court, here we come! Bayard Oct 2019 #6
Why should it be heard by SCOTUS? ancianita Oct 2019 #8
Appealed on up the food chain Bayard Oct 2019 #9
I better read up on this. I was thinking that SCOTUS might let it stand since it's re personal tax. ancianita Oct 2019 #10
Yes, but as the article notes MissMillie Oct 2019 #15
Yes, this excerpt from CNBC might be of interest, especially the part form Neal Katyal. ancianita Oct 2019 #17
The dissent starts on Page 67 of 134. NT mahatmakanejeeves Oct 2019 #12
Thank you. Here is a link to the ruling and the dissent argument in the first paragraph is idiotic BumRushDaShow Oct 2019 #16
Yep.The 'activist' judge seems to ignore the extraordinary context of 1st and 2nd branch conflicts. ancianita Oct 2019 #21
The other issue that this judge misses is that BumRushDaShow Oct 2019 #22
Absolutely. A real law misstep that SCOTUS will definitely put to right. ancianita Oct 2019 #23
Yeah, it's a trash opinion Bradical79 Oct 2019 #27
This is still going to take months... SergeStorms Oct 2019 #25
So that's Good News! Cha Oct 2019 #28
You bet Cha! It was one of 3 rulings that he got hit with! BumRushDaShow Oct 2019 #29
It must piss him off so much.. he's Cha Oct 2019 #30
Yup - although I just posted a new LBN about his appeal filed late today BumRushDaShow Oct 2019 #31
'Cause he's the gd Cha Oct 2019 #32
+infinity! BumRushDaShow Oct 2019 #33
A Trifecta for dumpy trumpy!! riversedge Oct 2019 #35

BumRushDaShow

(129,305 posts)
3. I had posted the breakdown of the D.C. Appeals Ct. a couple days ago and I think it is 7(D)-4(R).
Fri Oct 11, 2019, 10:33 AM
Oct 2019

(the 4 were Drumpf IIRC)

 

OliverQ

(3,363 posts)
20. She's a Trump appointee. She took Kavanaugh's seat.
Fri Oct 11, 2019, 12:18 PM
Oct 2019

Her dissent was basically "Congress has no authority to investigate anything that is not part of a direct impeachment and this case was not part of impeachment so Congress has no legal authority to conduct oversight of Trump."

CottonBear

(21,596 posts)
2. What will MF45 try next to keep from turning over the tax documents?
Fri Oct 11, 2019, 10:32 AM
Oct 2019

Or, is it now inevitable that the tax returns will be turned over to the House?

BumRushDaShow

(129,305 posts)
4. They'll probably ask for a stay from the SCOTUS
Fri Oct 11, 2019, 10:37 AM
Oct 2019

And based on this - https://www.supremecourt.gov/about/circuitAssignments.aspx Roberts is assigned to the D.C. Circuit (am guessing to review emergency requests and grant relief or reject).

CottonBear

(21,596 posts)
7. Thanks so much for the reply and the Supreme Court link.
Fri Oct 11, 2019, 10:44 AM
Oct 2019

So, now we’ll find out if Roberts is patriot or if he’ll rule in favor of a treasonous administration and MF45.

BumRushDaShow

(129,305 posts)
13. Yes but this ruling came out of the D.C. Circuit
Fri Oct 11, 2019, 11:57 AM
Oct 2019
Washington (CNN) President Donald Trump on Friday lost his appeal to stop a House subpoena of his tax documents from his longtime accountant Mazars USA. In a 2-1 ruling, the US Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit upheld a lower court ruling saying the firm must turn over eight years of accounting records.




Not sure how they would work it if for jurisdiction for the appeal and whether they go by the firm location or where the suit was originally filed. Since this case is with respect to a Congressional subpoena, I would think it would be the D.C. route.

I know there is a parallel case in NY with a request for the returns from the Manhattan DA and I think that one has been running in SDNY and would probably use the 2nd Circuit.

BumRushDaShow

(129,305 posts)
18. I was just looking at the GD thread and there was a comment reminding people about the 2 cases
Fri Oct 11, 2019, 12:11 PM
Oct 2019

And I know that *I* have to remember which "taxes" case is being referenced in the news articles!!!!!

The NY case had a stay put on it after the 75-page ruling from the District Court demanding the taxes be handed over to Manhattan D.A. Cyrus Vance, Jr., but am not sure for how long that was supposed to be in effect (haven't followed up on it).

ancianita

(36,130 posts)
19. Thanks. Exactly the memory issue I had. But I attribute it to news outlets' sloppy omissions more
Fri Oct 11, 2019, 12:16 PM
Oct 2019

than yours or my problem.

We gotta get the legalities straight, and so do media.

usaf-vet

(6,194 posts)
5. So riddle me this. If Trump is convinced he could shoot someone on 5th. Ave and not lose a vote.....
Fri Oct 11, 2019, 10:42 AM
Oct 2019

..... WHAT THE HELL IS HE HIDING IN HIS TAX RETURNS?

What would be worse than first-degree murder?

Bayard

(22,123 posts)
6. Supreme Court, here we come!
Fri Oct 11, 2019, 10:44 AM
Oct 2019

How long is this going to take? I don't suppose there's any chance they could decline to hear the case?

ancianita

(36,130 posts)
10. I better read up on this. I was thinking that SCOTUS might let it stand since it's re personal tax.
Fri Oct 11, 2019, 11:26 AM
Oct 2019

MissMillie

(38,570 posts)
15. Yes, but as the article notes
Fri Oct 11, 2019, 12:01 PM
Oct 2019

The Supreme Court has the precedent of not interfering w/ Congressional subpoenas. Given the precedent, they should refuse to hear the case.

Kavanaugh said precedent was important... let's see if he sticks with that.

ancianita

(36,130 posts)
17. Yes, this excerpt from CNBC might be of interest, especially the part form Neal Katyal.
Fri Oct 11, 2019, 12:07 PM
Oct 2019
The ruling does not mean that Trump’s financial records will immediately be released to the committee, which had issued its subpoena on April 15.

The appeals panel ordered that the effect of the ruling be put on hold until seven days after the disposition of a petition for a rehearing of the case by either the same panel or by the entire D.C. Circuit judges.

In addition to seeking a rehearing, Trump can ask the U.S. Supreme Court to take his appeal.

“We are reviewing the opinion and evaluating all appellate options,” Trump lawyer Jay Sekulow said.

Neal Katyal, a former acting U.S. solicitor general — the lawyer who argues for the federal government at the Supreme Court — said on Twitter that Trump could have a tough time getting the high court to overturn the decision given the fact that a federal judge and a highly respected appeals court have both ruled for the House.


https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/11/appeals-court-rejects-trump-appeal-of-subpoena-for-tax-returns.html

BumRushDaShow

(129,305 posts)
16. Thank you. Here is a link to the ruling and the dissent argument in the first paragraph is idiotic
Fri Oct 11, 2019, 12:07 PM
Oct 2019

claiming that the House really hasn't "invovked the impeachment power".

I stopped reading after that.

RAO, Circuit Judge, dissenting: The majority breaks new ground when it determines Congress is investigating allegations of illegal conduct against the President, yet nonetheless upholds the subpoena as part of the legislative power. The Committee on Oversight and Reform has consistently maintained that it seeks to determine whether the President broke the law, but it has not invoked Congress’s impeachment power to support this subpoena.

http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2019/images/10/11/opinion.mazars.pdf


This is an example of an "activist judge" who blindly rules by talking point.

ancianita

(36,130 posts)
21. Yep.The 'activist' judge seems to ignore the extraordinary context of 1st and 2nd branch conflicts.
Fri Oct 11, 2019, 12:21 PM
Oct 2019

Seems to me that if the CoC has to support subpoenas in THIS context with impeachment power, Congress would have be in permanent Official Impeachment Inquiry status.

BumRushDaShow

(129,305 posts)
22. The other issue that this judge misses is that
Fri Oct 11, 2019, 01:09 PM
Oct 2019

based on previous court decisions, including at the SCOTUS level, all have said that Congress makes its own "rules" for their day-to-day operation and the courts should not get involved in interpreting Congressional rules. So when the Speaker of the House announces that the House is "officially" engaged in an "impeachment inquiry", then that means that it IS "officially engaged in an impeachment inquiry". It doesn't mean a judge should intervene and insist on manufacturing a House rule for the convenience of amplifying a talking point to help a President obstruct a lawful investigation.

 

Bradical79

(4,490 posts)
27. Yeah, it's a trash opinion
Fri Oct 11, 2019, 07:06 PM
Oct 2019

It's based entirely on a nonexistant rule, backed up by zilch. It's laughably stupid. There are going to be so many problems in the coming years from all these corrupt morons he appointed.

SergeStorms

(19,204 posts)
25. This is still going to take months...
Fri Oct 11, 2019, 05:05 PM
Oct 2019

if not longer, until they're finally handed over, if then! Trump thinks he's above the law, don't forget.

BumRushDaShow

(129,305 posts)
31. Yup - although I just posted a new LBN about his appeal filed late today
Fri Oct 11, 2019, 07:35 PM
Oct 2019
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10142380245

Same idiocy about being completely immune from any prosecution for anything from anyone.
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