Your blatant opposition to our chosen presidential candidate is a violation of TOS.

Censorship would be if I personally deleted her post.

have even the remotest effect of silencing people in this country who are concerned about these issues. A far more sensible solution, since people all over the world are rising up in case you haven't noticed, would be for Democrats to engage those who have concerns about the direction in which this country is going.

See the huge demonstrations in Spain and Greece this week. And they are only going to get bigger, and spread to more countries, including this one. The people have had it with the same old 'be quiet' and 'let us decide what is good for you' rhetoric. We are in an election season, NOW is the time to let our politicians know what we want.

Has the US been known to kill women and children and has anyone in the US won the Noble Peace Prize of late .

...put a cork in it until after the election.

- Of course you must realize that after the election is when truth will matter even less than it does now......



''Freedom is the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.'' ~George Orwell

Enjoy.

Can you explain that logic to me please? Aren't elections supposed to be ABOUT ISSUES?

Have you asked Corporate Lobbyists who are currently making sure they do NOT remain silent about the issues their bosses want to see taken care of, to remain silent also? I'd love to see someone ask them to 'wait until after the election' to push their issues, but so far I have never seen a single request to them to be quiet.

Is there some reason why the people should be quiet about the issues that concern them at the only time when it actually matters? While Corporate Lobbyists are all over DC making sure the same politicians know exactly which issues are important to them?

Claiming that you are not allowed to criticize.

I am stating that you can criticize all you want, in the proper venue.

Nobody is stopping you.

attention of our Elected officials to get their 'issues' heard which they work harder than ever at during election season, while the American people should just shut up and vote without letting those same Elected Officials know what issues they, the People, care about. That leaves the field open to Big Corporations without any challenge.

I have noted this 'tactic' now for the past few election cycles, and I have begun to wonder where it is coming from. Who benefits from the silence of the people? Certainly not the people.

And since when did it become a problem for any good politician to hear from the people s/he intends to represent?

'The proper venue'. That sounds so Orwellian. 'You may speak, but only in the proper venue'!

My Reps never object to hearing from me or my family and friends especially during election season. That is the very best time to get their attention, which is why I find this 'tactic' to be very suspect.

Someone doesn't want the people to be heard it seems.

Rather than reading between the lines only what you want or expect to see.

You disappoint me.

Primarily because you do not seem to understand what freedom of speech is.

You are free to express yourself. Nobody is stopping you. But use your own megaphone, not a borrowed one. Blast away at the Democratic candidates at any freeper site; they'll welcome you and lavish praise on you. Create your own website and say whatever you wish there. Nobody will stop you from doing that either. That's what freedom of speech is all about. But don't come here and whine if your posts get deleted for failing to conform to the terms of service of THIS community.

If you don't understand that, then you need to brush up on the constitution.

If, after that, you still think your freedom of speech is being infringed, then sue.

Let's see how far that gets you.

enjoy rants no matter how little sense they make. But it really doesn't seem to be addressing anything I said.

If you want to lecture DUers, feel free, some people enjoy that role and good for them I suppose if that is their thing.

But don't be surprised if people don't pay much attention to your lectures.

Eg, and I hate to disappoint people like this, but your lecture here, if it was intended for me, had zero impact, just so you know.

To try to correct that and maybe be more successful in the future, my advice is that you try a different, more pleasant attitude if you really want to influence people. Which, and I could be wrong, it appears you do.

You catch more flies with honey!

But you are. The pity is that you apparently can't see the contradiction. Nor the distinction.

I remember when we here at DU used to strain at the credulity of those ignorant Bush supporters whose only membership requirement for that club was being borne with two blind eyes. Yes, we laughed and laughed at their apparent blindness to reality.

Or maybe I've got it all wrong. Maybe you do see it all, and you're anger isn't really directed at me so much as it is your own conscience flaying you for remaining silent on so important an issue when it really matters.

If you are in fact upset with yourself for being forced to ignore the contradictions, you would do well to think before you accuse someone of something they haven't done. And if you don't understand what I'm saying, that's fine with me too. Just one more nail in the coffin as far as I can see.

- One more nail in someone's coffin.......

enjoy

Take the anti-Obama crap and stuff it.

...and to the point when dealing with folderol, and such a spurious conclusion.

I love how now the 'left' has adapted the ridiculous 'logic' of the far right!

check out this Nader thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=245332

Did you know Ralph Nader was responsible for the bp oil spill?

I had no idea Ralph caused the BP oil spill. I guess I just wasn't paying attention!

Where did I hear that logic before? It is so familiar!

Your incapacity to accept reality is amusing.

Why dont you freely discuss issues in lieu of patrolling the DU neighborhood looking for hoodies.

I will support President Barack Obama but I will never sit down and shut up, not for Rahmbo and not for you.

Go ahead and alert and see what happens.

censorship. Why do you feel the need to run in like school girl to snitch?

violation. Do you understand that people can disagree. Yelling over and over to "reread the TOS", isnt going to change anyone's mind.

...then we have to suffer the slings and arrows of the Assange SWAT team.

authoritarian wannabe

Blowing up civilians is excusable and okay, but exposing that sort of stuff is terrorism? That seems to be our nation's official policy on this now, and I don't give a shit who the president is, it's a fucked-up standard and needs to be fixed.

is not a violation of the TOS.

Obama has many, many flaws which include his handling of several international issues.

That statement in no way undermines the fact that he is a better candidate than Rmoney.

The fact of the matter is that our political system and the processes that fund and select candidates is deeply flawed.

Think Citizens United and all the undertow that goes along with unlimited campaign spending.

Hence the reason that we as US Citizens have so little effective choice and ultimately have to live in a country that enables such bad international policy.

That's long enough after the 2012 election that the president has had enough time to recover from the stresses campaign but not so close to the 2014 midterms or fundraising. It's the exact period of time when the president has zero incentive to listen to "the people". THAT is the appropriate time to voice one's displeasure.

Honestly, I don't know what's wrong with some people, thinking that bringing up issues when politicians need them most will help to influence any change.

"Democratic Underground is an online community for politically liberal people who understand the importance of working within the system to elect more Democrats and fewer Republicans to all levels of political office. Teabaggers, Neo-cons, Dittoheads, Paulites, Freepers, Birthers, and right-wingers in general are not welcome here. Neither are certain extreme-fringe left-wingers, including advocates of violent political/social change, hard-line communists, terrorist-apologists, America-haters, kooks, crackpots, LaRouchies, and the like."

...is msongs? An extreme-fringe left-winger? A hard-line communist? A kook or crackpot? ♫Or a partridge-in-a-pear-tree!?♫

And when one has been so designated, does one just leave? Self-deport? Turn oneself in and throw oneself onto the mercy of the double-think courts? Or is it more like going into a Room 101 kind of deal?

- And finally, does double-think hurt? Or do you just get used to it?

and many of us also understand that there is more to being a Democratic than putting a "D" after one's name.

and because we are not Republicans who follow with blind obedience.

I don't like voting for Republicans and that includes the ones with a "D" after their names and I'm not going to be quiet about it.

responsible to require that. Defending a D or an R who does not is irresponsible. Politicians come and go. The constitution does not. Every democrat here should know that.

........on "Democratic Underground" you agreed to the TOS which is to support "D"s!!!

This is going around in a circle, I suggest once again that the TOS and Community Guidelines be reviewed.

maybe you want to alert on me for that - he's not a Democrat.

I didn't say I wasn't voting for Obama I said I was tired of being expected to support Republicans who put a "D" after their names. And I'm tired of the Democratic party running these tools because they know we'll be too afraid of the Republican not to vote for the DLC/Third Way/"New" Democrat.

So I'm voting for the lesser of evils (again) but I'm not happy about it and I'm not going to be quiet about it.

One can criticize while remaining loyal - it's one of the fundamental tenets of freedom of speech. I don't see the proscription of criticism in the TOS, sorry.

...when leadership is Democratic and we're right in the middle of a hotly contested Presidential and Congressional campaign, you might as well come right out and say you don't support the Obama administration.

Oh, by the way, "Saint" Julien promised he would return to Sweden to address the rape allegations against him but now he's cowardly holed up in the Equadorian embassy in London. I suppose what he is being investigated isn't a "legitimate rape"?

I tend to keep my mouth shut about American politics, but it's largely because I'm Canadian and don't have a dog in the fight. I do have strong opinions about the Democratic administration, and many of them are distinctly uncomplimentary. Let's just say that I'm a very left-wing progressive, and I'm pretty sure they're not. It's not my place to diss them though, and I'm here to talk about other stuff anyway.

I am a diehard Assange supporter, though.

But it is Julian, not Julien.

Thought I'd just point that out. You don't want to look stupid as shit or anything.

............thought I'd just point that out. You don't want to look stupid as Assange or anything.

...what I don't have and what you still haven't explained is what that statement has to do with msong's observation? How does stating an obvious fact undermine the above stated objective?

Are you saying that ''working within the system'' means remaining silent except when what you say is popular and supportive like air-brushing removes flaws so they can't be seen?

Or are you saying that to be a supportive Dem, it requires that one sport two blind eyes so as to more effectively ''work within the system''???

Isn't omission the same thing as lying?

And assuming that you have a point (which I know is a grand assumption, but bear with me) you still haven't told me which one of these ''crimes against Dems'' applies to msong. So, if you can't even say which crime has been violated and is applicable, then how can you then say it's a violation of the TOS at all? Eh?

I can only conclude in the absence of a charge, that none of this applies to msong and you haven't thought through your statement and just shot your mouth off without thinking. It happens. I've even done it, but it was a long time ago.


- However, I also understand your difficulty, given your.... er... condition.....

Take care.


- It's okay for Lady Justice to be blind, but not us citizens......

And just what is my "difficulty" and "condition"?

... msongs? it was msongs' comment above:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=246390

and kestrel91316's response to msongs' comment that started this difference of opinion about what is acceptable to say about Dems. Here is your post citing the TOS to kestrel91316, which seemingly supports her idea of embedded censorship here at DU:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=246541


As for your ''difficulty'' and ''condition,'' there is apparently no conflict which arises in some people who claim to support freedom, liberty and democracy -- while simultaneously trying to squash it in others. Such behavior is called ''doublethink'' -- the holding to two directly contradictory ideas and accepting them both {I provided links so beyond that, I don't know what more I can do}.

- In any event, don't sweat it, it's just a ride.......

And even then, there were always exceptions, for people like Joe Lieberman or Zell Miller. There are many people who are critical of Obama but will vote for and campaign for his reelection. We are adults and many of us have the maturity and political discipline to handle seeming political struggle.

Plenty of Blue Dogs that you'll hear nary a positive word about. My point is that no one here is campaigning or advocating for their Republican or fringe party opponents (or very rarely anyway). Whether or not criticism of Obama is a TOS violation certainly isn't up to me, but I'd be surprised if that was the case. I think it's pretty clear when someone is left-critical of Obama and part of the broad progressive/Democratic trend, and when someone is simply "intervening" to be disruptive of Democratic efforts.

Is that one of the forbidden categories?

vile, but viler George the second
and what mortal ever heard
any good of George the third
When from earth the forth descended
god be praised, the Georges ended

What about those advocating violent political/social change in Syria and Iran? Or, do the rules no longer apply just because that's been the policy pushed by the outgoing Secretary of State?

You don't seem to comprehend its full meaning.

Any LaRoucheis here? Freepers? Birthers? Kooks? Crackpots? America-haters?

Point them out and I will gladly alert on them also.

Paranoia?

"Democratic Underground is an online community for politically liberal people who understand the importance of working within the system to elect more Democrats and fewer Republicans to all levels of political office."

The OP doesn't do that!!!!!

did you post that at all then?

And you claim I am the one who is paranoid? Really?

But it won't.

just not seeing it, probably because I have only had only 4 hours of sleep in the last 48 hours

'Enemy of the State' doesn't tell you they're after him?

Be serious.

Headline writer got a lot more clicks with the bad headline though.

"THE US military has designated Julian Assange and WikiLeaks as enemies of the United States - the same legal category as the al-Qaeda terrorist network and the Taliban insurgency."

Sure, they flagged him and I assume his organization and any others that publish stolen classified documents as an enemy in their rules so as to make sure the that military personal know that leaking classified documents will not be tolerated but thats a far cry from saying they have issued an arrest warrant or have one in the works or atleast thats how I am reading it atm though of course that "is" with only 4 hours of sleep so I could have missed something in which case please point it out.

they published material about war crimes and economic crimes provided to them by whistle-blowers. I remember a certain presidential candidate promising to protect whistle-blowers btw.

We know that the US has a GJ seated trying to get an indictment against a multi-award winning Journalist for publishing FACTS. No one has disputed that what Wikileaks published were facts. And we have read from one of the country's top security contractors, that they have that indictment, sealed and are ready to issue an arrest warrant when necessary. Right now, they are happy to allow Sweden, one of our puppets, to do the dirty work.

The problem with these tactics is that it makes him even more of a martyr and hero to the cause of openness in government. And since right now Assange is more popular worldwide than the US Government, this will only make him even more popular.

And then maybe you see your mistake and correct your post, if you dont see it I will be happy to explain.

Assange could bring about the death penalty!!!!!