It's the product of the US-EU intervention in Libya. That's why these people are now in power there.

So your ironic statement should be: Yay US bombing of Libya.

This is horrible, but no, it doesn't mean that things would be better if the old tyrants had been saved by the U.S. None of those regimes were ever going to reform or democratize.

We got fooled again.

Lesbian and gay sex was illegal under Section 407.4 of the Libyan Constitution during the Gaddafi regime, but the maximum punishment was five years.

People tended to forget, especially during the Arab Spring, that many of these middle eastern thugs are actually holdover socialist dictatorships from the Cold War era. Prior to the revolution, Libya was indisputably an authoritarian redistributive socialist state similar to Cuba.

Just as with the former USSR, North Korea today, Cuba before 1979, and most other authoritarian socialist states, homosexuality was treated as a disorder and its practice was a crime. Gays would often be arrested, imprisoned, and "treated", but executions were not sanctioned. It certainly happened in some cases, but was never an authorized or organized thing. It was a crime, like any other, which meant that you were sentenced, did your time in jail, and were released.

The Arab Spring replaced Libyan authoritarian socialism with an Islamic democratic capitalist state. We can argue about whether that change is good or bad, but it unquestionably means that some social forces that had previously been repressed are now free to operate openly, and they aren't all interesting in building a "better and more democratic" Libya.

n/t.

Thanks for the info.

because of slavery and the genocide against Native Americans?

probably.

Oh, and you left out the nearly constant warmongering.

The point I was trying to make is...this is a moment an unspeakably bad moment, but it doesn't discredit the whole Arab Spring. The Spring is very much alive, as the revolt against Morsi's power grab demonstrates.

It's a horrific thing that these men were killed...but the story isn't over yet...and this doesn't prove that it would have been better to leave the old regimes in power.

merely that the promise of a newly democratized region has yet to materialize, and, it seems, is being eclipsed by Iranian-style Islamist theocracy.

When slavery still existed, the Native American genocide had just begun, and there was a STATE OF EMERGENCY in effect
(The Alien and Sedition Acts)that harshly suppressed free speech and the rights of opposition groups to function.

The U.S. really only got close to being a free and civilized country in the 1960's, when the Civil Rights and Voting Rights Acts were passed. For much of our history, the majority wasn't allowed to vote and most people were illiterate. There was crushing poverty in much of the land. Being LGBT here was pretty much the same as being LGBT in Saudi Arabia(ok, there weren't public executions, but there were massive numbers of unpunished murders of LGBT people).

Before 1964, we could fairly have said that the American Revolution was a joke. So how harshly can we judge nations that are just beginning THEIR revolutions?

Condemn the specific wrongs...don't condemn the dreams.

Can the UN or somebody negotiate and get them out of there?

And there should be no mistake about it: these are the forces that were installed by NATO, which systematically destroyed the state power that used to put these radical Salafists in prison where they belong.

or end on a happy note for the "Al-Nawasi militia".

Libya elected, unlike Egypt, a liberal government. If these violent freaks kill these men I would bet their own violent demise will not be far behind.

Instead we get inundated by 18 month old sound bites from people who hold onto their suspicion and paranoia like a shield.

lately.

Speaking with Gay Star News, a Libyan LGBT activist nicknamed Khaleed stated: ‘We never had any gay nightclubs in Libya, so it is not uncommon for Libyans - straight, bisexual and gay men to party in a private space, drink, dance, have fun and sometimes even have sex.

‘That fact that they were captured by this extreme Salafist militia is very worrying.

‘The situation for LGBT people after the revolution generally improved, people can meet each other more easily than under the Qadaffi [Gadaffi] regime, although, of course we still have to be very discreet and careful.

in the 50's. Do the sex with other men, but don't admit to it; if called out for it, claim "there was a lack of available women", "I was drunk", "I did it for money only", i.e., whatever you say, you can't say you did it because you wanted to. Heterosexual marriage is essentially mandatory, ditto childbearing, etc. Deviations from the norm will result in prison terms, torture, homosexual rape, even death.

It's difficult to see how pernicious the closet is unless you've lived it. It's not such a wonderful life, after all.

And sadly for gays in Libya, they are discovering why silence does equal death.

(And I mean that as a bad thing.)