But then again....nuance.

Was it’s a maintenance issue. Sabotage also crossed my mind…same airport, I think.

The entire maintenance history of that particular engine is now the subject of scrutiny.

Also No one has reported the exact number of operational hours on that engine. Nor the number of maintenance events that required the cowling to be removed/reinstalled.

the History channel and their series on Air Disasters. It is fascinating to watch what causes the bad aircraft crashes you hear or read about.....

I’m all about aviation security these days.

Not so much about the airframes but more about the passenger journey.

Chain of custody is so very important. It’s the single most critical element in incident forensics.

Who knows what when, how and why. And for what purpose. Who benefits (or escapes) from accountability…

but corporations always want to skimp on labor. Good mechanics find themselves cutting corners because there are too few of them to do the job properly.

This is not just in the airline industry, and they're responsible for routine maintenance, not Boeing. I saw the same mentality at work in healthcare, everybody from housekeeping to kitchen staff cut close to the bone and things getting missed all over the place. I imagine most industries are the same as every drop is being squeezed out of cash cows.

Corporations are OK servants but rotten masters and most of them have been infested by brash junior management with hedge fund mentalities, who think shaving a few cents here and there will get them an office with decent carpeting.

Can’t get a busser for xtra busy times
Can’t give extra napkins

I could go on!!!

instead of actually earning it, they cut actual service close to zero.

Karl Marx was right about a lot of things, especially when it comes to end stage capitalism. Next up is the crash, something that will take everything with it unless there is massive government intervention..

Even Adam Smith said capitalists needed to be regulated. His invisible hand fairy story would break down quickly, otherwise.

Specifically, he said that washing my hands used too much soap -- AND he added that this was a problem because the added expense would CUT INTO HIS BONUS.

================

This was quite some time ago, and the movie showed copious amounts of roaches and rats.

Oh, man, that just reminded me that I used to see baby roaches in another kitchen I worked in. But at least they didn't get onto me about the soap. lol

================

Webstaurantstore.com sells a case of four gallons of Advantage Chemicals Foaming Hand Soap with Fruity Scent for $22.42. That's basically a year's supply. I've heard of cheap bastards who can squeeze a nickel flat, but this guy takes stingy to whole new levels.

There's your bonus right there!

==============

During my time at DoD managing spare parts, the military depot maintenance process went from complete overhaul to just inspect and repair. I'm sure it's been the same downward trend in commercial aircraft maintenance. My guess is that the cowling was removed to do maintenance on the engine and wasn't correctly reinstalled.

due to metal fatigue. The stresses in that area are huge. Cracks might have been detected if staffing had been adequate and they'd looked for them. This is what I mean about having to cut corners.

Your guess could also be correct. I've never worked in aircraft maintenance. I"ve worked and I've seen what short staffing does.

With Navy and USMC aircraft, salt water operation makes corrosion an issue. That can and does affect the exterior airframe, but commercial airplanes don't spend months at a time in salt water seas.

Metal fatigue is more common in engine parts that operate in high temperatures and at high velocity.

so metal fatigue in cowling, which is exposed to even higher stress, is not out of the question.

(Sorry, my mother was a metallurgist, some of it must have rubbed off)

A maintainer most likely just didn't close it correctly and when wind got under it, it came off.

He is the one that removed the regulations that were required to keep the planes safe.

making good, safe airplanes.

I've said it many times on here. The legal doctrine of shareholder primacy, which was established in 1919 here in 'Murika, routinely holds shareholder profits as being more important than workers, consumers and the environment.

Shitty airplanes that have parts fall off in flight is the natural outcome of taking this doctrine of shareholder primacy to its logical conclusion.

The profit motive is in direct conflict with the safety of airline passengers, it seems. And to nakocal's point immediately above, the mantra of deregulate, privatize and gut government programs certainly has not helped. Because guess what? Corporations that are publicly traded and have Wall Street fund managers breathing down their necks for PROFITS every quarter will NOT police themselves, and they are NOT benign.

where the CEO of Boeing and a couple of other high level execs got shown the door.......

A customer of mine, a couple of Decades ago, told me he would't fly on ANY of the airlines, including the one he worked for.. He was a licensed A & P, mechanic and worked for one of the three top airlines........He said the maintenance done was often less and some times far far less than what was required by the FAA.

You can bet that Maintenance hasn't become better in the years since he said that.......

This one was made in 2015, making it 9 years old. Also the pictures look like someone opened the cowl, but then closed and failed to latch the bottom. Should Boeing go out to every plane they make, every day, to oversee all maintenance operations?

You don't see people blaming Toyota if a part falls off their 9 year old Corolla. Maintenance is on the owner.

SWA maintenance fucked the dog on this one.

than a manufacturing problem. This one's on the airline, not Boeing.

Engine cowlings coming off in flight is MUCH more likely to be because the ground crew didn't properly close it after inspecting/servicing the engine. Think checking/topping off the oil and things like that. That can also happen from a bird strike to the cowling damaging it in flight. It isn't at all likely to be a design or manufacturing defect in an aircraft that has been in service for years. There is a very low chance that this one falls on Boeing.

A side note: I'm not accusing any misconduct here, just making an observation. Did anyone else notice that while the audio of the pilot talking to controllers was the pilot declaring an in flight emergency and the controller giving the pilot a new heading to turn to (which you wouldn't do if it were on the ground), the video appeared to show the aircraft already on the ground. Looks to me like video and audio are from different phases of flight. In the air for the audio, landing roll out for the video.

a lot of people aren't going to fly Boeing, and a lot more aren't going to fly.
Lucky these things are happening at low altitudes.

Knee jerk is rampant around here.

It also reminds me once again of the vast and diverse wealth of knowledge and experience on this forum!

So much crap about boeing about problems caused by poor maintenance. I don't care what you fly in it will need service. Blaming the manufacturer for this is outrageous. The only way a part gets loose is through fatigue cracking or sloppy maintenance. I haven't noticed a whole lot of 737's losing their cowlings. Besides. there was no real damage to any of the important stuff like flight controls.

those pieces of the cowling that were blowing off and around presented an additional hazard, and, if so, to whom or to what?

In the process of flapping around in the air stream until they detached and fell away (to be a hazard to those on the ground), they could damage other parts of the aircraft.

That could be components on the engine itself such as hydraulic pumps, generators, bleed air ducts, electrical wiring, etc. Those are all components that are meant to be protected from the elements by the engine cowling. If the cowling is thrashing about in the wind instead of cleanly separating from the aircraft (as parts of it did here), then damage could occur.

Off the top of my head other things that could be damaged if it hit the wrong spot would be: Leading edge slats, trailing edge flaps and the horizontal tail surfaces.

All the things I mentioned, more likely than not, wouldn't happen. But... they could. Which is why the pilots declare an emergency and get it back on the ground ASAP. Loss of a hydraulic pump or generator or bleed air from the engines would result in warning lights in the cockpit, so the crew would know. Damage to flight control surfaces could cause problems in handling the aircraft or the crew might not even notice there is damage until they get it on the ground and do a visual inspection.

Lots of wild ass scenarios and not enough hard answers, there is just too much chaos theory.

flapping and flying around was more than a bit unnerving.

Chances are somebody didn't properly fasten the cowling after servicing or repairing the engine.

This headline would create a very different
reaction. I’ll bet Southwest is really grateful.

You were undoubtedly welcomed to DU when you first started, but since I somehow missed doing it, I thought I'd do it now.

Welcome to DU, InstantGratification!!

nt

Commercial airplanes are still the safest form of travel.

Not discounting Boeing's problems for they are many and serious. But some just can't let rational thought get in the way of a knee jerk meme. That's just human I guess.

by far

Just asking.

I worked in an aircraft engine plant.
Nothing flew off. We were careful. Safety-wired everything.

Yes, cowlings can fly off.

Last edited Sun Apr 7, 2024, 06:09 PM - Edit history (1)

seems rather dishonest in my opinion - factually true perhaps, but still deceptive and fearmongery...

From VASAviation:

Does this all smell of sabotage????

...a confidence builder...

...may I make a suggestion?

...duct tape...

John Oliver on Boeing. So informative, funny and worrisome!!!

…is a Southwest problem.

The maintenance crew failed to properly reattach the cowling.

If one failed to properly reinstall a hubcap on one’s car after changing a flat tire and it comes after driving away
it isn’t a fault of the manufacturer its the fault of the person reinstalling the hubcap.

Straight out of college into a well paying engineer position. Two months ago I saw him and jokingly said "working hard keeping those planes in the air?". Then they were passing the back to the airlines' crew and oddly Covid vaccines causing the loss of trained ground crews. I didn't bring up the Whistle-blower who committed suicide. Family issues.

My money would be on Boeing.

First is that someone simply forgot to close the cowling properly after he did his pre-flight checks.

The other is that the latch wore out.

I mean, I know that when a tire falls off my 1962 Ford I'm not going to go, "y'know, Ford makes a shitty car, why don't they make the parts in them better so the tires don't fall off?" I'm more likely to think "this car is older than I am, things wear out after a while. (And no, I don't have a 1962 Ford...if I had a 1962 car it'd probably be a Volkswagen Bus.)

since a United/Boeing plane, leaving Denver, had an "un-contained, self dismantling," of an engine flying out of Denver......
The exact same "dismantling" occurred on that SWest Airline engine, that was safely landed by a former female fighter pilot.

Watching "Air Disasters" and hearing about the cockpit crew not being able to know what is happening to the entire plane behind their seats makes me wonder why aren't there cockpit screen displays of tiny cameras mounted around the aircraft in strategic places?????? Hell, they install them on cars these days, why not aircraft. Any moisture problem, and they could have simple heaters like the Pito (sp) Heaters, windshield heaters or leading edge of wing heaters.....
Seems like a hell of a handicap to the pilots in an emergency, to have to have the passengers or flight attendants tell the cockpit crew what is going on.....
In the old days, with a cockpit crew of three, they could send the flight engineer back to see what was happening and report back to the pilots.......Back then, if there was a malfunction, it was helpful to have the third person specifically watching the instruments and calling out problems to the pilots.....Same thing as the Railroads getting rid of the manned caboose. The train engineers can not see anything to the rear, the caboose guy would be looking at the entire train in front of him to be able to call out any problem with the cars ahead of him......

It sure seems, that in the past, the corporations were all in a race to build the best/safest product. That somehow got replaced with a race to a greater bottom line. An excellent example is house hold appliances.....I have a Sears freezer handed down from my parents to me, that must be 70? years old and still running just fine, same with a sears fridge we had for 50 years before it died. An appliance repair guy told me that we would be lucky to have our replacement for that old fridge last 5-10 years. And the new appliances all cost 3-4 times as much as they used to.....

It’s time for the FLY BOEING T-shirt!

What a bunch of snowflakes! B-17s used to fly with a lot more damage than that!!!

/s if needed.

I just heard, that Boeing is starting a new system wide policy. All passengers, must sign a Last Will and Testament at the gate, before boarding the aircraft. The beneficiaries are Boeing, of course.

If the bonnet of my car unexpectedly flies up while driving, is it my fault because I didn't shut it properly, or a manufacturer design fault because the latch mechanism isn't secure?

Same for the cowling - idiot proof lock mechanism? Obviously not!

However you still need to put forth a little effort to actually close the latches, which I doubt they did.

about Boeing Execs and shareholders reaping huge dividends while cutting the workforce and stifling unions. The MBA bean counters at the top ignored engineers and techs to boost the stock price and their own perks. The entire Executive Suite from the last 20 years should be jailed for fraud and attempted murder.