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bananas

(27,509 posts)
Sat Mar 9, 2013, 10:06 PM Mar 2013

Abe: Japan must revise Constitution to engage in U.N. security campaigns

Source: Jiji Press

The war-renouncing Article 9 of the Constitution should be revised so that Japan can participate in collective military action authorized by the U.N. Charter, Prime Minister Shinzo Abe declared Saturday.

“I doubt whether Japan would be able to fulfill its obligations (to its allies) if the United Nations engages in collective security” operations, Abe said during a satellite TV program. “Japan had better have room to take part.”

Article 9 stipulates that “the Japanese people forever renounce war as a sovereign right of the nation and the threat or use of force as means of settling international disputes.” A draft amendment compiled by Abe’s Liberal Democratic Party administration limits the renunciation to war, and only says that Japan does not exercise force as a means of settling cross-border rows.

<snip>

The prime minister also reaffirmed his intention to prioritize a revision of Article 96 to ease the current requirements for enacting constitutional amendments. The article stipulates that revisions of the Constitution must be initiated by a two-thirds or more majority in both chambers of the Diet.

<snip>

Read more: http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2013/03/10/national/abe-japan-must-revise-constitution-to-engage-in-u-n-security-campaigns/

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Abe: Japan must revise Constitution to engage in U.N. security campaigns (Original Post) bananas Mar 2013 OP
Hold steadfast with your 'Article 9' Japan...wish we had a "Article 9"...indeed! Purveyor Mar 2013 #1
Should they renounce it, we should also renounce our responsibility to defend them. eom tarheelsunc Mar 2013 #2
Right. Or have a pitched battle with hated rival china over oil rights to Warren Stupidity Mar 2013 #3
I don't think it should be renounced davidpdx Mar 2013 #4
Considering that most Japanese don't even want nuclear power anymore, Art_from_Ark Mar 2013 #5
True, but nuclear weapons are not the only way davidpdx Mar 2013 #7
Conditions in Japan today are completely different from what they were Art_from_Ark Mar 2013 #8
I'm well aware of most of that davidpdx Mar 2013 #9
There's rightwing elements everywhere. That doesn't mean the IRAA's going to come back. (nt) Posteritatis Mar 2013 #14
They also talked about repealing Article 9 during the Koizumi era Art_from_Ark Mar 2013 #16
That's good davidpdx Mar 2013 #17
The very essence of John2 Mar 2013 #11
The issue is they have been a country with a history of aggression davidpdx Mar 2013 #13
Name a major or recently-major power that *doesn't* have a history of aggression. Posteritatis Mar 2013 #15
The Japanese are considered to be a de-facto nuclear power, much like Israel Exultant Democracy Mar 2013 #10
Sounds about right davidpdx Mar 2013 #12
Try the ''NEW'' Japanese UN Peacekeepers.... DeSwiss Mar 2013 #6
If they modify its one less hurdle to get on the Security Council.. jzodda Mar 2013 #18
 

Purveyor

(29,876 posts)
1. Hold steadfast with your 'Article 9' Japan...wish we had a "Article 9"...indeed!
Sat Mar 9, 2013, 11:04 PM
Mar 2013

Article 9 stipulates that “the Japanese people forever renounce war as a sovereign right of the nation and the threat or use of force as means of settling international disputes.”

davidpdx

(22,000 posts)
4. I don't think it should be renounced
Sun Mar 10, 2013, 01:29 AM
Mar 2013

It could be modified so that Japan could participant in UN missions. Completely getting rid of it would be a slippery slope especially if the Japanese decide they want nuclear bombs. I would say there is a good chance South Korea would push to do so as well, which would be the start of an arms race in Asia.

Art_from_Ark

(27,247 posts)
5. Considering that most Japanese don't even want nuclear power anymore,
Sun Mar 10, 2013, 04:56 AM
Mar 2013

I seriously doubt the Japanese people would go for the idea of developing nuclear weapons, especially considering that Japan has been the only country to be on the receiving end of such weapons and Japanese know first-hand of the devastation they can wreak.

davidpdx

(22,000 posts)
7. True, but nuclear weapons are not the only way
Sun Mar 10, 2013, 06:57 AM
Mar 2013

A build up of conventional weapons could be just as bad. South Korea has every reason to be nervous given they have been invaded by both China and Japan. I do support the Japanese being able to do two things: 1) more of their own defense; and 2) participate more in UN missions. The question would be how much should they be allowed to have in terms of any offensive weapons given their history.

Art_from_Ark

(27,247 posts)
8. Conditions in Japan today are completely different from what they were
Sun Mar 10, 2013, 08:44 AM
Mar 2013

in the decades leading up to the Pacific War.

First of all, there is no peasant class in Japan anymore, although there is still some lingering social stigma in places with the descendants of the burakumin. Nonetheless, Japan has a mostly egalitarian society.

Second, Japan is not trying to start and expand an empire to keep from becoming part of someone else's empire.

Third, the military, which essentially controlled the country from around 1912 to 1945 (and had a large hand in its operation before that), has been kept out of Japanese politics since the end of the war.

Fourth, no one thinks of the Emperor as a god anymore. Everyone knows that he is a mortal just like everyone else, with the same afflictions as ordinary people of his age. Certainly there are few Japanese who would be willing to go to war to glorify him, and he undoubtedly would frown on such an action.

Fifth, most Japanese are proud of Article 9 which prevents them from having an aggressive military. The right-wingers who drive around in their large black trucks blaring war songs are held in low regard.

Sixth, Japan has living memory of the terrible things that can happen when a country wages war.

Seventh, Japan knows that starting an aggressive war would be condemned by the international community, and would likely result in the loss of countless friendships and business relationships that it has painstakingly cultivated around the world.

davidpdx

(22,000 posts)
9. I'm well aware of most of that
Sun Mar 10, 2013, 09:19 AM
Mar 2013

And I know there is a still a very right wing element in Japan. I don't honestly think they will totally repeal it, but even despite the changes I am still opposed to them doing it. Given that the US defends them and they have defensive weapons they are probably more safe than South Korea.

Art_from_Ark

(27,247 posts)
16. They also talked about repealing Article 9 during the Koizumi era
Mon Mar 11, 2013, 12:45 AM
Mar 2013

Last edited Mon Mar 11, 2013, 02:06 AM - Edit history (1)

It didn't get anywhere then, it won't get anywhere now.

And Japan did send, reluctantly, Jieitai (Self-defense) forces to Iraq during the Koizumi years, on a strictly humanitarian mission. So really, there is a precedent for sending Jieitai troops to another country for humanitarian purposes and Japan did not have to change its constitution to do it.

davidpdx

(22,000 posts)
17. That's good
Mon Mar 11, 2013, 01:33 AM
Mar 2013

I definitely think Japan should be able to help in humanitarian and peace keeping missions. South Korea faces the same danger Japan does which is from that lunatic up north. China seems to be getting more aggressive with several countries.

 

John2

(2,730 posts)
11. The very essence of
Sun Mar 10, 2013, 12:22 PM
Mar 2013

your question suggests that Japan is still a conquered country and has to get the O.K. of the United States. The United States is the new Roman Empire. If they are truly independent, then let the Japanese people decide. They are not the only country in the World has a history of aggression. This is 2013. The War ended decades ago. Should we hold Italy, Russia, France, Britain and Spain to the Past?

davidpdx

(22,000 posts)
13. The issue is they have been a country with a history of aggression
Sun Mar 10, 2013, 08:14 PM
Mar 2013

If the people are proud of the part of their constitution to be non-aggressive, then there would be no reason to repeal it. Also given the fact that the US has protected them for the last 67 years would count for something in terms of playing on the team. Signing a document surrendering in war does not have an expiration date. The cease fire in Korea is going to be 60 years old in June and despite what the North Koreans say about canceling it, it is still in effect.

Posteritatis

(18,807 posts)
15. Name a major or recently-major power that *doesn't* have a history of aggression.
Sun Mar 10, 2013, 08:31 PM
Mar 2013

Welcome to nation states since the sixteenth century.

All the "subtle" dogwhistling about the Intrinsic Warlike Nature Of The Japanese Race is kind of offensive.

Also, surrender agreements that don't result in outright annexation do have expiry dates. In Japan's case that date was April 28, 1952. And there was never a surrender on the Korean peninsula by either side, so I'm not sure what you're getting at there.

Exultant Democracy

(6,594 posts)
10. The Japanese are considered to be a de-facto nuclear power, much like Israel
Sun Mar 10, 2013, 11:23 AM
Mar 2013

It isn't official, but it is an open secret. Their either have nukes or can have nukes at a moments notice. They have all the science and tech they need, all the hardware and more refined fissionable material then you can shake a stick at.

davidpdx

(22,000 posts)
12. Sounds about right
Sun Mar 10, 2013, 08:06 PM
Mar 2013

They do have some of the best scientists in the world, so I would think the capability would be there.

jzodda

(2,124 posts)
18. If they modify its one less hurdle to get on the Security Council..
Mon Mar 11, 2013, 01:51 AM
Mar 2013

They won't be added unless they take this step- They may not be added anytime soon in any event but my own view is that they should modify it enough to take part in UN missions. Then they should be added as a permanent member along with India and Brazil. If they UN is ever going to fulfill its mission more effectively then these important nations need to join.

Of course the right wing in this country will go crazy over this but too bad.

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