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Hissyspit

(45,788 posts)
Wed Jun 5, 2013, 01:58 PM Jun 2013

Panel: US Should Let Nature Cull Wild Horse Herds

Source: Associated Press

PANEL: US SHOULD LET NATURE CULL WILD HORSE HERDS

By SCOTT SONNER
— Jun. 5 1:16 PM EDT

RENO, Nev. (AP) — A scathing independent scientific review of wild horse roundups in the West concludes the U.S. government should likely instead let nature cull the herds.

A 14-member panel assembled by the National Science Academy's National Research Council, at the request of the Bureau of Land Management, concluded BLM's removal of nearly 100,000 horses from the Western range over the past decade is probably having the opposite effect of its intention to ease ecological damage and reduce overpopulated herds.

By stepping in prematurely when food and water supplies remain adequate, and with most natural predators long gone, the land management agency is producing artificial conditions that ultimately serve to perpetuate population growth, the committee said Wednesday in a 451-page report recommending more emphasis on a variety of methods of fertility control to keep horse numbers in check.

The research panel sympathized with BLM's struggle to find middle ground between horse advocates who say the federally protected animals have a right to be on the range and livestock ranchers who see them as unwelcome competitors for forage. It noted there's "little if any public support" for allowing harm to come to either the horses or the rangeland itself.

"However, the current removal strategy used by BLM perpetuates the overpopulation problem by maintaining the number of animals at levels below the carrying capacity of the land, protecting the rangeland and the horse population in the short term but resulting in continually high population growth and exacerbating the long-term problem," the report said.

Read more: http://bigstory.ap.org/article/independent-panel-readies-review-blm-mustangs

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Panel: US Should Let Nature Cull Wild Horse Herds (Original Post) Hissyspit Jun 2013 OP
Great! Now I can go on a photo safari to watch all the old and weak die of thirst and hunger. cliffordu Jun 2013 #1
Lions and wolves would solve that problem. hunter Jun 2013 #4
doubt the horses will die because the same range has 50+cattle or sheep to every horse. Sunlei Jun 2013 #11
Wrong answer dbackjon Jun 2013 #2
Any animal will do that. sulphurdunn Jun 2013 #5
Again, wrong answer dbackjon Jun 2013 #6
Pretty sure I've read there used to be jaguars in Southern California. Trillo Jun 2013 #8
Wrong. sulphurdunn Jun 2013 #13
You are 100% right: Horses are not native, they do more damage to the ecosystem than cattle and byeya Jun 2013 #14
horses evolved for 52 million years on north america..that's as native a species as the bald eagle Sunlei Jun 2013 #17
Then they went extinct with all the big predators that used to cull them. dbackjon Jun 2013 #19
no they didn't some event happened about 11,000 years ago that wiped out large grazers & clovis man Sunlei Jun 2013 #21
Horses were native to North America. hunter Jun 2013 #20
The cattle and sheep that ranchers keep are not a native part of the ecosystem totodeinhere Jun 2013 #15
False, actually Scootaloo Jun 2013 #16
+1 Fearless Jun 2013 #18
horses evolved only on north america, funny how the land was pristine before thegreat evil took over Sunlei Jun 2013 #12
Competition with the cattle industry Ash_F Jun 2013 #3
Not just cattle industry dbackjon Jun 2013 #7
if permitted, the cattlemen would graze the cattle EVERYWHERE Scout Jun 2013 #9
exactly correct. Scout Jun 2013 #10

cliffordu

(30,994 posts)
1. Great! Now I can go on a photo safari to watch all the old and weak die of thirst and hunger.
Wed Jun 5, 2013, 02:23 PM
Jun 2013

Previews of what will be happening to us pretty soon.

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
11. doubt the horses will die because the same range has 50+cattle or sheep to every horse.
Wed Jun 5, 2013, 03:55 PM
Jun 2013

that old new 'multi-use' law the BLM always throws around.

 

dbackjon

(6,578 posts)
6. Again, wrong answer
Wed Jun 5, 2013, 03:29 PM
Jun 2013

Horses are not a native part of the ecosystem. They do not have natural predators. There is no check on the population other than human culling.

Trillo

(9,154 posts)
8. Pretty sure I've read there used to be jaguars in Southern California.
Wed Jun 5, 2013, 03:43 PM
Jun 2013

Pretty sure they'd eat weak and dying horses. Might take some time for the populations of the predator to recover.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaguar
"Reportedly, while hunting horses, a jaguar may leap onto their back, place one paw on the muzzle and another on the nape and then twist, dislocating the neck. Local people have ancedotally reported that when hunting a pair of horses bound together, the jaguar will kill one horse and then drag it while the other horse, still living, is dragged in their wake." (The animal kingdom: based upon the writings of the eminent naturalists Audubon, Wallace, Brehm, Wood, and Others, edited by Hugh Craig. Trinity College (1897), New York.)

 

sulphurdunn

(6,891 posts)
13. Wrong.
Wed Jun 5, 2013, 04:18 PM
Jun 2013

Horses were reintroduced and found a new niche in the Great Plains ecosystem. They had plenty of predators until we killed them off. Cows and farms are the real non-native parts of the ecosystem. Humans have done incalculably more damage to that ecosystem by raising cattle and growing grain than horses ever did.

 

byeya

(2,842 posts)
14. You are 100% right: Horses are not native, they do more damage to the ecosystem than cattle and
Wed Jun 5, 2013, 04:25 PM
Jun 2013

sheep and contribute to making a desert out of the high plains.
Let the BLM manage their land and remove these horses.

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
17. horses evolved for 52 million years on north america..that's as native a species as the bald eagle
Wed Jun 5, 2013, 05:01 PM
Jun 2013

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
21. no they didn't some event happened about 11,000 years ago that wiped out large grazers & clovis man
Wed Jun 5, 2013, 05:33 PM
Jun 2013

could have been climate change, some massive strike, fires? although DNA studies of permafrost shows pockets of equine way up north, including mammoths small ones on pacific islands up to about 5k years ago. Of course buffalo spread back across the lands pretty quick and because animals were crossing baringa land bridge plenty of equines ranged across sibera and europe.

They never went extinct. In fact horses are one of the few animals of today, along with other animals like bear, tigers, elephant..they can go back to the wild without any much problems at all adapting.

Of course even 10,000 years is nothing when one thinks about how equine and humans evolved over 50 million plus years and how little we both have changed over the past 11,000 years.

Pretty cool

hunter

(38,315 posts)
20. Horses were native to North America.
Wed Jun 5, 2013, 05:08 PM
Jun 2013

There are a couple of theories on how they died out, the most likely being people ate them all, other theories being climate change (the ice ages had richer climates), or maybe that a glancing blow by an asteroid incinerated most everything in North America including the horses and whatever people there were. Nevertheless, most plants in North America "remember" the horses.

The problem with today's humans, besides taking most of the water for ourselves, is that we've killed off the bigger predators that kept horse populations at a sustainable level.

Horses are not really an invasive species in the same sense that salt ceders or industrial age humans are.

totodeinhere

(13,058 posts)
15. The cattle and sheep that ranchers keep are not a native part of the ecosystem
Wed Jun 5, 2013, 04:45 PM
Jun 2013

either yet many are allowed to graze on the open range on public land.

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
16. False, actually
Wed Jun 5, 2013, 04:50 PM
Jun 2013

Horses - yes, modern Equus caballus - were a feature in North America's biota until hunted to extinction by early Americans ~11,000 years ago. That might seem a long time to a person, but on an ecological scale, it's a few days. The ecosystem still expects horses, just as the mojave still expects ground sloths.

The problem is not the presence of horses, then; the problem is the lack of predators. Jaguars, american lions, wolves, short-faced bears, and the like are all absent. All that's left are coyotes and cougars, neither of which are large enough to make horses a staple of their diet. And of course feral dogs, but their value as an apex predator is nil.

There are no predators because humans killed them all off to protect range livestock... who happen to be 100% non-native, unlike horses; cattle do not replace bison because they have different eating habits, and bison are migratory, and goats / sheep are just not a part of the American biota, outside of mountains. These animals cause constant, grinding harm to the ecosystem just by existing.

The real problem then, is the use of American grassland as pasture for non-native species, and the extinction of predators in order to protect that regime. When it's considered what a waste of energy meat production is, and how much carbon they release into the atmosphere, and other unpleasant facts of the industry, the ideal solution is to pare down rangeland, reintroduce predators (wolves, at first; large cats as the system expands) and depleted grazers (bison, pronghorn, and prairie dogs), and watch it grow back to as close a natural state as it'll be possible to get.

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
12. horses evolved only on north america, funny how the land was pristine before thegreat evil took over
Wed Jun 5, 2013, 03:57 PM
Jun 2013

Ash_F

(5,861 posts)
3. Competition with the cattle industry
Wed Jun 5, 2013, 02:49 PM
Jun 2013

That is what this is about.

"The research panel sympathized with BLM's struggle to find middle ground between horse advocates who say the federally protected animals have a right to be on the range and livestock ranchers who see them as unwelcome competitors for forage."

 

dbackjon

(6,578 posts)
7. Not just cattle industry
Wed Jun 5, 2013, 03:30 PM
Jun 2013

Come to Phoenix - I can show you riparian habitat destroyed by wild horses where cattle grazing is not permitted.

Scout

(8,624 posts)
10. exactly correct.
Wed Jun 5, 2013, 03:54 PM
Jun 2013

i have "horsey" friends and "cattlemen" friends in the southwest/western states.

your assessment is correct, the cattlemen want everything for themselves.

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