The Muslim Brotherhood has accused the Egyptian military of carrying out a massacre after at least 34 people were killed when the army and security forces opened fire on supporters of Mohamed Morsi during dawn prayers this morning.

Victims of the shooting, which took place at a pro-Morsi protest in eastern Cairo, were being rushed to nearby hospitals this morning.

At a field clinic close to the scene, one doctor told the Independent that he had seen eleven bodies. The victims had been shot in the head, neck and chest, he added.

As he spoke another victim was rushed in on a stretcher, his bare chest drenched in blood. The man groaned in pain as medics hurriedly patched him up with bandages. A doctor said he had been shot in the head.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/egypt-unrest-muslim-brotherhood-accuses-army-of-killing-34-morsi-loyalists-as-violences-escalates-in-cairo-8694785.html

(Reuters) - The Muslim Brotherhood called on Egyptians to rise up against those who "want to steal" the revolution, a statement by its political wing said on Monday, after the Health Ministry said 35 people were killed in shooting outside the Cairo headquarters of the Republican Guard.

&quot The Freedom and Justice Party) calls on the great Egyptian people to rise up against those who want to steal their revolution with tanks and armored vehicles, even over the dead bodies of the people," a statement on the party's Facebook page said.

The bloodshed deepened Egypt's political crisis, escalating the struggle between the army, which overthrew Islamist President Mohamed Mursi last Wednesday after mass demonstrations demanding his resignation, and the Brotherhood, which has denounced what it called a coup.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/08/us-egypt-protest-uprising-idUSBRE96707H20130708

(AFP) CAIRO — Armed supporters of ousted Islamist president Mohamed Morsi seized two soldiers in Cairo after dozens were killed on Monday in clashes outside an elite military headquarters, an army official said.

Both of the Egyptian soldiers, who were identified as Samir Abdallah Ali and Azzam Hazem Ali, were put in a vehicle and forced to make pro-Morsi and anti-army statements on a loudspeaker, said the official, cited by state news agency MENA.

One soldier had been "severely beaten up" and filmed while making the pro-Morsi statements, he added.

The report comes after an attack on Morsi supporters outside the Republican Guard headquarters in Cairo killed at least 42 people and injured hundreds, according to the emergency services.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5i1CaxhIC8EAgQtWYPABcO8paj-Fg?docId=CNG.0e14e4b52e2d625872ef999aae5abb94.41

It's not a real smart move to attack the Army HQs and assault 2 soldiers.

This violence by the MB is wrong.

You are so transparently one-sided it is pathetic.

on that point i am one sided.

This cycle of violence should stop.

going to stop. The Muslim Brotherhood has now pit themselves against the powerful Egyptian military. There is no way they will win that fight. It is causing repercussions in other places too, because the Muslim Brotherhood was one of the main backers of the Syrian opposition. I heard Al Jazeera reporters were thrown out of a military news conference and the leader of the Syrian opposition or so called Prime MInister supported by the Muslim Brotherhood just resigned also. It doesn't look good at all for these people. Their opposition is now against two of the best Arab armies in the Middle East and both seem to be establishing order in both countries.

Last edited Mon Jul 8, 2013, 04:53 PM - Edit history (1)

Lets remember the Egyptian Army is NOT a volunteer army by a Universal Military Service Army. Thus its enlisted ranks are pulled from the General Population NOT just from people who want to serve in the Army. Now, Special units tend to be volunteers, i.e. people who wanted to be in that service, but even these are NOT true volunteers, for you get Volunteers who prefer to serve their mandatory Service time in Special Services rather then in regular units.

Thus a lot of enlistees in the Egyptian Army serve due to it being mandatory, not because they want to serve. A side affect of this is you have better relationship between the general population and the enlistee ranks and with that better relationship common views on what is best for Egypt.

The Classic case is the US Army in Vietnam and Afghanistan. In Vietnam the US Army was draftee, you had massive support among Americans for Intervention in 1965 and as long as you had that massive support the US Army did well in Vietnam. When the Majority of Americans turned against the war in mid 1968, the Army saw a rapid decline in the fighting ability of US Troops in Vietnam. By 1972 the Army was so bad, we had to withdraw or face disaster given the bad morale of the troops in the Field. What cause this general decline? The simple fact the people back home opposed the War and thus so did the troops.

In a mercenary Army (what the US calls a "Volunteer Army", enlistees enlist due to economics or a desire to serve, not because they have to. Thus you have a separation of the troops and the general population. In Afghanistan, the war was fought by an Volunteer Army, and unlike Vietnam the Majority of Americans opposed the War in Afghanistan from day one. Given that the Army was Volunteer did not affect the attitude of the troops, through you saw a rapid deterioration of the quality of troops as the war went on (most Countries adopt the draft to keep up troop quality. when increase quantity of troops are need, more then any other reason, the better the average enlistee is the better is the over all army).

Notice the smaller volunteer army was still capable to fighting even ten years into a war opposed by most Americans, while the larger Draftee army that went into Vietnam could not survive four years of such opposition. The only problem with Volunteer armies is that when the fighting starts, the number of quality enlistees decline and with it an over all decline in quality in the army as a whole. The solution is accept this decline or draft. If you have a popular war, the draft is the better solution. If you have an unpopular war, the Army has to accept less quality in enlistees.

In the case of Egypt, the Draft was desired to keep the quality up, given the size of the Egyptian army. The down side is it is a lousy army to suppress a popular revolt. Certain elite units may be loyal, but even they are affected by the draft, for many people would prefer to serve in elite units if they have to serve. Thus even elite units sees the affect of the draft, even if all the members of that elite units are "Volunteers" for many volunteer to have a say where they must serve.

Thus the enlistee ranks of the Army is the big question mark. Will they obey orders or will they just stand around (I do NOT expect them to break ranks, shoot their officers and join the Moslem Brotherhood in their own coup, that requires getting to many individuals to work together, for the officer corp provides the leadership for the military, and if the enlistee ranks reject that leadership, they become individuals not a combat unit until someone fills that role and that will require what the senior NCOs do).

If some of the company grade and field grade officers support the Moslem Brotherhood , that could provide the needed leadership, but without that leadership the best the Moslem Brotherhood can hope for is a refusal to open fire by the enlistees AND that is a big fear on part of the Army in this coup (if you remember the Revolution, this appears to be what happened, the troops just refused to open fire).

The Moslem Brotherhood has extensive contacts throughout Egypt and the army and especially the enlistee ranks. The Moslem Brotherhood has an idea of what the various units will do and not do. Thus the real issue is how much can the Moslem Brotherhood push? And will the drafted enlistees open fire? Big question, but one that we will see the answer to in the coming weeks.

(AFP) CAIRO — Egypt's prosecution ordered the closure of the Cairo headquarters of the Muslim Brotherhood's Freedom and Justice Party after police found weapons inside it on Monday, a security official said.

Police found "flammable liquid, knives and arms to be used against the June 30 protests," the official told AFP, in reference to demonstrations that saw millions take to the streets to demand the resignation of Islamist president Mohamed Morsi.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jvS-IB_CgTT6LDgGtOtyzLfBEyiA?docId=CNG.0e14e4b52e2d625872ef999aae5abb94.71

Egypt's armed forces deployed security cordons on Monday on all main roads into Cairo and Giza.

According to Ahram Arabic news website, traffic has been partially halted in some of those streets by the interior ministry, in an attempt to tighten security and find the culprits behind what they described as an attempt to raid the Cairo headquarters of the Republican Guards at dawn on Monday.

At least 42 people were killed and 300 injured in violent clashes on Monday morning between supporters of deposed president Mohamed Morsi and the army.

Morsi’s Muslim Brotherhood claimed that a peaceful pro-Morsi sit-in was attacked by the military during dawn prayers, while the military stated that an “armed terrorist group” had attacked the Republic Guard headquarters, leading to the deaths.

http://english.ahram.org.eg/News/76008.aspx

Protesters say security forces fired on them; the army claims people stormed a military building


(Photo: Hassan Ammar, AP)
STORY HIGHLIGHTS
Reports also indicate at least 300 wounded
Morsi's opponents and supporters are holding rallies
Conflicting accounts of dawn shooting
CAIRO — At least 51 people were killed and more than 300 injured when Egyptian soldiers and police clashed with Islamists early Monday at a sit-in by supporters of former Egyptian president Mohammed Morsi, raising the specter of civil war.

Interim leader Adly Mansour issued a statement on Monday expressing "deep sorrow" over the deaths and calling for self-restraint in the interest of the nation.

Significantly, the statement from his office echoed the military's version of events, noting that the killings followed an attempt to storm the Republican Guard's headquarters.

Mansour, who was named to the interim post by the Egyptian military after Morsi's ouster, said in the statement read on national TV, that he had ordered an investigation into the deaths.

More: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/07/08/egypt-morsi-muslim-brotherhood/2497755/

He knows that the military fired his predecessor. And he knows who hired him. He also has an inkling as to what happens to those that are fired.

What's only slightly striking is that not only were a lot of the protesters killed, but that this is also being used as a pretext for locking down urban centers.

It's been claimed--perhaps a bit exaggeratedly, but only a bit--that the anti-Mursiy protesters' ranks were large and the pro-Mursiy protesters ranks small because, at least in part, the MB's support is more rural and less urban. The protests were held in large urban centers, which would be the "liberals" base.

In response to this, if you were going to have large MB protests you'd move supporters in from the rural areas. And voila--suddenly the large urban centers have movement in and out of them controlled by checkpoints.

The investigation should be interesting. But you could probably already count off those who will accept its findings if they support the military's story and those who'll reject them, as well as those who'll be suspicious.

http://www.democracynow.org/2013/7/8/sharif_abdel_kouddous_egypt_descends_into

http://www.democracynow.org/2013/7/8/after_morsis_ouster_egypts_path_to

way, if you had an imagination. What would Alexander the Great do, if you wanted to establish unity and stability in the Arab World? You choose your course or military and poltical objectives by cutting off the heads of the snake. What can be done to the Muslim Brotherhood influenced from Qatar, can also be done to the Salafists' influenced out of Saudia Arabia.

but the downside is years of more bloodshed, tarnished belief in their government, growing hatreds and demands for revenge and retribution, and more riots in the street.

Not exactly a good trade.

it up as their tarnished belief in using government to push their religious beliefs on all Egyptions. If they want to hate others for that, then there is no other alternative but War.That is why I use a character in history, such as Alexander the Great. He would use military might to bring them to submission. The first thing, he would do is cut off the heads of the snake that instigate insurrection. The heads of the snake, come from Saudi Arabia and Qatar. If you use your imagination, you probably could get to settle the issue faster. I don't think the Saudi or Qatar regimes are so safe. A Alexander would probably threaten them both by forming alliances with their enemies on all sides. I think they could thus be surrounded by strong armies in all directions .

In response to the massacre.

[link:http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/09/world/middleeast/al-nour-party-egypt.html?_r=0|

Al Qaeda may come to raise an insurgency just as they have done in Syria.

It is entirely possible to break the back of religious terrorism and theocratic politics. It would take a tremendous amount of courage and steadfastness to do so.