So young and I believe America didn't treat him nor his family unfairly, but alas, someone got to him and his brother to do harm on innocent Americans. I also understand a young China student was killed also, shame on such hatred.

1 - it says DTs bag was black. It wasn't black, it was light-colored (video).

2 - Martin Richard didn't die from the second bomb (photographic evidence & witness statements refute that).

3 - The chinese girl didn't die from the second bomb (photographic evidence & witness statements refute that).

This is just from the first look. More flaws are probable.

Carmen Ortiz wants to make him a murderer at all cost, apparently.

Provide the links to the sources you cited? Use Tiny URL's if possible. If not - advise of the site/source at each link. Thanks!

Full URL work just fine on DU. Who really cares what they look like, at least you know where you are going when you click on a link.

I served on a jury for this where we were alerted that this was information being culled from that Infowars site.

I'm trying to give the poster a chance to clear this up. I voted to let it stand . . . but I want the alerter to know I took notice. And my questions are fair.

It doesn't matter either way - you are correct on that.

But I want to know where these 'facts' are coming from. If they are coming from one of those screwy conspiracy theory sites - then I want to know.

http://fbi.gov

which is the primary source for 1)

It's really simple: the indictment (i.e. FED prosecutors) says DTs bag was black

The FBI video with the Tsarnaevs shows that DTs bag was light-colored, white or light grey or something, definitely not black.

So it's basically FBI vs. FBI. No reason to cry foul here.

When it comes to 2) and 3) - everybody can find out that by himself, no reason to go to Alex Jones. I did find out it by myself.

If you give me two hours, I'll make my case for 2) and 3), okay?

So will the Dzhokhar Tsarnaev trial treated the same way like Zimmerman trial here on DU, or do I have to expect an alert everytime I post something about that?

You've been here about a month and a half - right? When you post - it's better to give back up iwth links and data or you will be alerted on. You'll note - I did not vote to hide the post. At it's face - I can't tell the resources.

But put them out there when possible so folks know where you are coming from.

Me - I'm not interested in the Boston Bombing details and I'm willing to wait until the trial to discuss - unless it's heart space information. I.E. how the human beings harmed during the bombing are getting along.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/08/sports/beyond-the-finish-line.html?hp&_r=1&

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323335404578446502200309878.html

I have it in my RSS feed. These folks lives are never going to be the same. I'll leave the perp to the jury - because I don't care about him. He can rot in hell.

I care about THAT man - in THAT link.

being victim of the second bomb.

You said upthread that "photographic evidence & witness statements refute that." OK. Show me.

You said upthread that "If you give me two hours, I'll make my case for 2) and 3), okay?"

OK.

I'll wait.

Since there is photographic evidence and witness statements putting Martin at the first bomb (you said "from the first bomb, apparently&quot , so go ahead and show that.

I called your bluff.

Feel free to show your evidence for the weakness of the indictment at any point. You promised to do so, so do so.

I'm not interested in playing imbecile conspiracy theory games with you. You said there was evidence refuting that Martin was killed by the second bomb. Show it. You said you could prove your case if given 2-3 hours. Do so.

Or don't. I don't really give a shit. You're the one that will be showed up as the liar, since you're the one claiming to be able to produce such evidence. Do what you said you would do or hide behind this infantile "table turning" nonsense because you can't make your case.

Whatever. The people reading the thread can decide.

is this in accordance with DU rules?

You promised to produce it, now please do so.

for Martin Richard dying from the second bomb.

Instead, you provide

1) an early account of the incident which has long been proven false, since Bill Richards did not run in the race and therefore did not cross the finish line. I'll put credence in that account when you provide a list of the runners in the Boston marathon (publicly available) and show me Bill Richards on it. Hint: you will find no such thing. He wasn't in the race, so young Martin Richards wasn't greeting him at the finish line. Like most conspiracy theory nuttery, you rely on an early and bad journalistic effort. The account is simply false. We know Bill Richards didn't run in the race. He was a spectator, as in the image you yourself provided (which, of course, you claim to be faked, more nonsense).

2) You claim that the blast would have taken Martin Richards across the street with the barrier had he been on the barrier. a) I don't know that to be the case; b) I don't know how the barrier got to that position; c) I don't know that anyone is claiming Martin was on the barrier when the bomb went off anyway, d) I don't know that the image you claim to be fake anyway depicts moments immediately before the bombing, and I rather think there was some interval between that image and the bombing, since that image shows Bill Richards on the rail as well, and Bill Richards was not wounded at all during the bombing, so was likely not standing there at the time (he also wasn't running in the race, as we all well know).

So, you have made no case, you have provided no evidence of any merit, and you've refuted nothing.

All that said, there is lurking in your account the very simple point that you cannot explain away: Bill Richards is alive and well; Bill Richards has an abiding interest in knowing the truth about why his son is dead, his daughter lost a leg, and his wife suffered severe brain trauma (certainly a more abiding interest that internet conspiracy shitheads, in any case) and - you'll like this part - Bill Richards has never disputed the government's account of how his son died. So, that's all the evidence I need. How do you explain it away?

Be careful now, because I think I know what you're about to do, just like I knew you were going to claim the picture was fake when you asked me for my evidence earlier, and I simply sidestepped your silly and predictable gambit. Explain to me why you are disputing the government account of Martin Richards' death, but his own father - who was there, mind you - is not. Explain that, and see if you can do it without doing what you desperately want to do. You know what you want to say about Bill Richards. Everybody here knows your next move on that.

I'm not playing games here, and I don't know what you mean with "silly and predictable gambit". I also feel no "desperation" to do something, whatever you mean. I just say that the evidence which is on the public market (especially authentic photos of the second bomb site) leaves little doubt that Martin Richard was not killed by the second bomb.

Explain to me why you are disputing the government account of Martin Richards' death, but his own father - who was there, mind you - is not.

Is there an explicit statement of Bill Richard on the whereabouts of his family? How do you know he wouldn't dispute the official record if being asked explicitly?

Anyway - I'm sure Judy Clarke has him on her list. So no need to speculate here. Just wait.

The second bomb was the one that caused more damage.

Lu Lingzi was watching the Marathon with two friends, Zhou Dangling and Qian Tingting. While Qian was not harmed by the bomb, Zhou was heavily injured and temporarily fell into coma. Qian told a newspaper what she experienced in these fateful minutes (so this is a first-hand account):

Qian said the three of them watched the marathon around noon before having lunch, and at about 2:40 pm headed for the Apple store on the same street where the explosion occurred, according to China News Service.

As runners crossed the finish line and many people were on the street, Qian lost sight of her friends when she heard the first explosion.

She rushed into the basement of the Apple store to hide with more than 10 other people, who were all frightened. They later followed store staff out of an emergency exit and onto the street.


http://usa.chinadaily.com.cn/world/2013-04/18/content_16416982.htm

Three things are noteworthy here:

1) Qian lost sight of her friends at the first explosion.

2) She describes runners crossing the finish line.

3) She was seeking shelter in an Apple store; however, the Apple store on Boylston Street is too far away from both bomb sites to come into question here. So she probably used "Apple store" as synonym for "computer store". And there is indeed an IT/computer store next to the first bomb site, the "International Data Group". There seems to be no computer store in the vicinity of the second bomb site.

So for me there is little doubt that Lu Lingzi and Zhou Danling were near the finish line and victims of the first bomb blast. Additionally, they are nowhere to detect on photos of the second bomb site, which is much smaller and therefore better assessable than the first bomb site.

So you might argue that this single report, despite being first-hand, is not sufficient to support my claim that she was not a victim of the second blast. Okay, but there are her two friends who are potential witnesses for the defense. I think this point of the indictment is really weak.

I come back then with Martin Richard and will present some photos. You'll neither detect Martin, nor his sister, nor the chinese girls.

For Martin Richard, there are conflicting stories:

Martin was killed in the first explosion as he waited to give his father a hug at the finishing line. His sister and mother were also injured.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2309545/Boston-bombings-2013-Devices-killed-including-Martin-Richard-Krystle-Campbell-used-terrorists-Afghanistan.html

Before the explosions, Martin gave his dad Bill Richard a hug at the finish line. Sadly, when Martin ran back to his mother, the first bomb exploded and killed him. Reports claims that his Martin’s mother was seriously injured — she underwent surgery for an injury on her brain on April 15, and Jane lost her leg.

(In the video below this quote, they say explicitly that Martin gave his father a hug when he crossed the finish line).

http://hollywoodlife.com/2013/04/16/martin-richard-dad-statement-son-death-boston-marathon-explosion/

All of this indicates that they were at the first bomb site. However, here's a different story:

Representative Stephen Lynch of Massachusetts spoke on the story on Tuesday's edition of MSNBC's Morning Joe, which differs from the accounts that state that Martin's father was running during the marathon:

Read more at: http://www.heavy.com/news/2013/04/martin-richard-boston-bombing-victim-8-year-old/

While the last quote makes no mention of the whereabouts of the Richards family, the next one (quoting the same witness) explicitly states that the family was not hurt by the first bomb:


Lynch said the family was attempting to get over the race barriers and into the street when the second blast occurred, killing Martin. Bill Richard and Henry Richard were not seriously injured, but doctors did remove ball bearings from Bill Richard's leg, Lynch said.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/16/martin-richards-boston-marathon-remembering_n_3092890.html

There are, however, some problems with this story. According to the complaint against Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, there were no people climbing over the barriers at the second bomb site after hearing the first explosion. All of them looked in the direction fo the first blast - apart from DT: "Virtually every head turns east (towards the finish line) and stares in that direction, in apparent bewilderedness and alarm. Bomber Two, virtually alone among the individuals in front of the restaurant, remains calm."



So who is right? The complaint, who refers to the famous video we've never seen, or Mr. Lynch, claiming that the family tried to climb over the barriers, being the only ones in the crowd to panic? I certainly prefer the first version.

This was Part I. In Part II, I'll present some pictures.

THIS PICTURE IS FAKED:



The photo if of unknown origin and appeared in some Yello Press newspapers (Daily Mail etc.)

It purports to show the Richard family as Marathon spectators, with Dzhokhar Tsarnaev in the background, just leaving the scene, and his bag (i.e. bomb) at the metal barrier. It has quickly been accepted by many as evidence that DT's bomb killed Martin and injured the rest of the family. But it's obviously not authentic.

The head of DT has obviously been copied from the photo where he turns into Fairfield Street after the blasts.

We know from the initial charge that DT left his bag a few seconds after the first blast, so the photo must have been shot only seconds before the second blast. However, as we know also from the charge Virtually every head turns east (towards the finish line) and stares in that direction, in apparent bewilderedness and alarm.

But neither the Richards nor anyone else stares east "in bewilderedness and alarm". Noone is looking towards the first bomb site. The people are cheering the runners. It is apparent that the first explosion not has occured yet. The photo must have been shot earlier, with DT and the Richard Family pasted in later. A fake.

By the way, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev just has pleaded not guilty in all 30 points.

rock you crawled out from under.

2) I was advised to do what I'm doing here by other DUers - making my case. So what?

3) I stand to my claim that this photo is faked. There are other photos which are not faked. I'll bring them soon.

Remove your tin foil hat and stop spreading conspiracy nut bullshit.

Please elaborate.

These two photos show what happened to the metal barrier where Martin allegedly was standing on: it was blown across the street.





Where is Martin? Where is his sister? If they were really standing on the barrier or climbing over it, they must have been blown off with it. The second picture shows that there's no injured child or adult lying on the ground near the barrier across the street. Everybody is focussed on the sidewalk at the Forum.

The first picture gives a good overview of the blast site. Neither the Richard family nor the two Chinese students are identifiable. They might have been covered by other people standing around them, in the left half of the picture, but all of them?