are ya laughing today. Tick tock, tick tock, just a matter of time now.

as i feel the feel the asshole will get away with murder

to predict juries. I'm hoping that, at the least, they'll find Z guilty of manslaughter.

While being hit and lying on his back. I for one would dismis everything GZ has said just by the Osterman book where says TM grabbed at the gun. He has never said that in any other interview. He is lying.

I don't know about you, but my first instinct would be to focus on the hand covering my nose and mouth. That whole thing stank as an attempt to justify it.

WHICH WAS STILL IN HIS HANDS WHEN THE POLICE FINALLY ARRIVED.

Not to mention, TM inflicted great bodily harm (one scratch half the size of a Bayer Aspirin's diameter & one scratch the diameter of two Bayer Aspirin tablets). Those injuries must not have left scars because GZ's hair sure grew back without any trouble.

GZ went hunting that night, and he never would've done it if he hadn't been loaded for bear. (For those of you not raised in a Texas household full of guns and animal heads mounted on the den walls, that means ready to shoot.)

I'm unaware of any evidence to the contrary.

BTW, that doesn't mean I think Zimmerman has a legitimate self-defense claim. Just trying to square arguments with the actual evidence in the record.

lesser charge at best .. personally I don't think he meant to kill the kid but he began something he could only finish by shooting the kid. So very sad

it was cold blooded murder OF A CHILD.

He went looking a reason to shoot somebody.

Look, GZ loaded his gun at some point, saw Trayvon, instigated a confrontation, and then he aimed that gun at Trayvon's heart and pulled the trigger. That was no accident. None of it.

And even if GZ, with his loaded handgun, was so frightened for his life he had to scream like a boy, he could have stopped Trayvon without killing him if he'd wanted to.

He did what he did because he wanted to do it, and he got exactly the result he wanted. He loaded that gun and then went after that poor kid. It wasn't a fight, it was a hunt.

And premeditation is 1st degree murder, not 2nd degree murder. So why can't you see 2nd degree murder? Now it is fine if you don't think that "f-ing punks" and "these a-holes, they always get away" isn't strong enough to meet the "depraved" threshold so be it. But then what would Zimmerman have had to say to indicate a depraved mind. Where is the line drawn in the sand?

evidenced by his mutterings. and lack of remorse.

Last edited Fri Jul 12, 2013, 06:37 PM - Edit history (1)

the defense was lying all over the place, every chance they got.

and i just saw a pic of poor trayvon's dead body laying face up in the grass.
NO STAINS ON HIS KNEES.
NO BLOOD ON HIS KNUCKLES OR ANYWHERE ON HIS HANDS.

the child was STALKED and MURDERED for being black and being in zimmerman's neighborhood.
had there been witnesses, zimmerman wouldn't have had the nerve to draw his gun.
he only did it because he thought he could GET AWAY WITH IT!

That's EXACTLY right. If you're a black man you have less of a right to walk home from the freaking store!!!! It's your fault! You shouldn't've been there. You should have had a white escort I guess. Or maybe your grandmother with you, or a couple of nuns.

I am LIVID over the way black men in this country are still discounted as citizens and as human beings. I just read Victor Davis Hanson's op piece in the paper. He thinks this case is just "prosecutorial overreach in response to the furor whipped up by racialists like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton." Yes, in 2013 conservative writers still produce bigoted garbage like this.

White white white.

But in 1950s Louisiana we had a thing called "segregation"!

I saw this posted on another forum, not sure of the accuracy or source of this but here it is:

THE FINAL 6 JURORS:
Juror B29: •She is Hispanic and black •She just moved to Florida four months ago from Chicago. •She has eight children and works at a nursing home.

Juror B76: •She is white •She has lived in Seminole County since 1975. •She has called police about kids vandalizing signs. •She has family members who own firearms.

Juror B37: •She is white •She has lived in Seminole County for 18 years. •She used to carry a concealed weapons permit.

Juror B51: •She is white •She has been a resident of Seminole County for nine years. •She moved to Florida from Atlanta, Georgia. •She does not have any children. •She retired from a career in real estate, and also worked as a director, supervising 1,200 employees.

Juror E6: •She is white •She is married and has two children. •She has lived in Seminole County for two years. •Her husband and son own guns. •She was involved in a domestic violence incident in her past.

Juror E40: •She is white •She is married with one son. •She moved to Seminole County from Iowa seven months ago. •She served as a safety officer for 25 years.


****
I just hope that each of them consider that Trayvon deserved a self defense hearing just as much as Zimmerman did. Trayvon's actions are those of someone who was afraid for his life, he did everything that you would expect a reasonable person to do. He approached Zimmerman while he was still in his vehicle, once he thought he was being watched, and asked him if he was following him, to which Zimmerman told the police that he replied no and rolled up his window, this was before his 911 call.

Then once Martin, still felt threatened by Zimmerman, he tried to run away he fled on foot, still pursued by Zimmerman. That wasn't enough, Zimmerman, decided to pursue on foot giving chase running after Martin into the dark common area, so Martin, did what is required in self defense, he tried to get away from his aggressor, and was acting like what a person who feared harm would do.

Zimmerman on the other hand, never identified himself, got out of the safety of his vehicle because he knew he had a gun, and gave chase, because he was determined not to let his suspect get away. Zimmerman never stood his ground he tried to take Martin's ground away, and based on the testimony of Martin's friend, who stated that she heard Martin once again try to speak to Zimmerman before he started the confrontation and jumped Martin, we know this because she said she heard the tussling sounds of wet grass, and Martin say get off get off.

This is what a person who is acting out of fear does, they try to get away, they don't calmly and coldly pursue their victim like a terminator robot.

That after Martin started to run he told his girlfriend he thought he ditched him and then later said "he's back" or something to that effect. Now O'Mara is suggesting that Martin was waiting in ambush for Zimmerman and when he showed up Martin jumped him. But a more reasonable explanation is that Martin waiting in hiding for awhile and then when there was what he thought was an all clear he came he out of hiding only to have Zimmerman come up behind him and this lines up with what the girlfriend testified to.

saw the photo of Martin's body that night. There was a flash light on but it looked like it was very dark from the surrounding area other than the flashlight on his body. I can't see how John Good saw what he claims he saw or was able to figure out who was screaming for help from the lighting.

Trayvon also doesn't look that much of a physical person compared to Zimmerman. It doesn't even look like Trayvon was in a fight at all. How can he look like that fighting against a person that was fighting for his life? It suggests to me Zimmerman just used a gun, without fighting for his life. I can easy see Zimmerman grabbing on to Trayvon and shooting him up close at the same time so Martin couldn't escape, while it was dark. He is very slim.

After they let this pig go free.

If I had been the prosecution, I would have "went there." I would have simply asked the jury, "if Trayvon Martin had been a 17 year white kid, do you honestly believe that George Zimmerman would have stalked him for no reason, gotten into the confrontation, and shot him in "self defense." If the answer to no, then you must convict Mr. Zimmerman of second degree murder.

even if you got away with it, in front of that particular jury would probably have backfired, badly.

IT'S THE TRUTH!

It's really something to try and switch the characters
as he suggested. It makes a person, I think, look at
their own attitude about race.

It took away the confusion for the jury, if there was
any, about what role race played, or what according to
the law racism is; or whether it was a factor in this case.

Simple right and wrong.

There was no eyewitness to the last few seconds of the fatal attack so there is no hard evidence of those last seconds except for the one phone call with a loud, fearful scream that ends abruptly when the shot rings out. That being the case, it boils down to the hard evidence and common sense. From the beginning what Zimmerman has said happened has not been supported by the hard evidence. Now O'Mara used expert witnesses that testified that what Zimmerman said could have happened but that is a far cry from saying that is how it must have happened.

Even the defenses last animation did not fit the evidence as it shows Martin throwing a left hook that connected with Zimmerman, knocking him to the ground. That type of punch would have landed somewhere on the right side of Zimmerman's head (anywhere from jaw to temple) and not square on the nose. The injury to Zimmerman's nose was delivered by a left hand but it had to be square on, meaning a hard left jab, which is what you would expect from a defensive blow intended to keep the other person at bay.

The defense had no answer for how Martin could have seen Zimmerman's gun nor how he could have retrieved it given Zimmerman's story and the location of the weapon. It is like the prosecution said, Martin would have needed 3 or 4 hands to do everything Zimmerman claimed. There is little question but what Zimmerman is guilty. It is only a matter of whether his hate filled comments are enough to be beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman had a depraved mind. Frankly, I thought the "they always get away" comment made this premeditated as Martin certainly did not "get away" and that 1st degree may have been easier to prove than 2nd degree murder.

While I did not think the prosecution did a very good job during the witness phase they did have a strong and compelling closing statement. Let us hope that justice is served.

that photograph and the lighting in the area, I definately can see the opposite, Zimmering sneaking up on Trayvon and Trayvon probably fighting Zimmerman off. The guy was very slim. Zimmerman could have held Trayvon while he shot him, while Trayvon probably was fighting for his life to get away. Zimmerman's injuries doesn't mean anything if they occurred with Martin fighting him off. It could have angered Zimmerman and he just shot him, which would have ended the whole struggle.

I've seen enactments, where the victim did everything to fight off the killer, especially if the killer had a gun, Zimmerman was the one so obsessive about someone getting away. He could have just shot Trayvon out of frustration at him screaming and fighting to get away. Zimmerman could have just been holding trayvon there so the cops could arrive, which he knew was on the way.

Martin could have been trying to pull away but Zimmerman grabbed his hoodie with his left hand while shooting him with his right hand.

"Beyond reasonable doubt."

It's GZ's trial and justice for him. Not TM's and justice for him.

I had been troubled by the defenses point about the hoodie not being tight to Martin's body and it just now dawned on me that my point creates a reasonable doubt about the defense theory -- so I am looking at it from the opposite direction as you on this matter.

Oh, if it is self defense GZ already got his justice because his attacker is now dead so this trial cannot be about justice for GZ though it will be closure for both GZ and TM's families. On the other hand, if GZ if found guilty of either charge then TM has gotten his justice.

determined that his quarry was not going to get away even if he had to shoot him from escaping.
I think you nailed it.

so can Zimmerman, I HOPE! By the way, Fruitvale Station, the movie about the Grant case, opens today. At a very fitting time in America.

Extremely timely! It's not showing in my area but it got 3.5 out of 4 stars in my paper. I just have to wait for it to come around.

Yes, I can't think about Oscar Grant now without thinking of Trayvon too.

@AP: BREAKING: Jury in Zimmerman murder trial has a question for judge; they want an index of all evidence. -MM

m.twitter.com/AP

Perhaps they just want to refer to it in a reasonable way for argument or discussion.

Perhaps they want to review it, like a good jury should.

Shows diligence and care.

Not that anybody will care if they don't return the "correct" verdict.