Teen convicted of killing baby gets life in prison
Source: AP
BRUNSWICK, Ga. (AP) — A Georgia teenager convicted of fatally shooting a baby in a stroller while trying to rob the child's mother was sentenced Thursday to life in prison without parole.
De'Marquise Elkins, 18, was sentenced in Georgia's Glynn County Superior Court less than two weeks after a jury found him guilty of murder in the slaying of 13-month-old Antonio Santiago.
The toddler was in his stroller and out for a walk with his mother when he was shot between the eyes March 21 in the Georgia coastal city of Brunswick. The mother and a younger teenager charged an accomplice testified at the trial that Elkins killed the boy after his mother refused to give up her purse.
Elkins was spared the death penalty because the killing occurred when he was 17, which the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled is too young to face capital punishment. Under Georgia law, the only possible punishments for Elkins were life with or without a chance of parole.
Read more: http://bigstory.ap.org/article/ga-teen-convicted-killing-baby-be-sentenced
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Ash_F
(5,861 posts)wild bird
(421 posts)Life w/o parole? Better than the death penalty, he gets to dwell on what he did for the rest of his life, although I doubt he has any remorse.
Now, on to his accomplice's trial.
RebelOne
(30,947 posts)Even the most hardened criminals do not condone killing a baby. He may have to be kept in solitary confinement for his own safety.
Scairp
(2,749 posts)They ruled that those under 18 who committed a capital offense could not get life without. They had to be given a chance of parole someday. I looked up. This is unconstitutional. The little shit might get a new trial and he will for sure get a new sentencing hearing.
http://www.youthlaw.org/juvenile_justice/6/us_supreme_court_bans_mandatory_life_without_parole_for_youth/
He wasn't a juvenile when he was sentenced.
It doesn't say when the offense was committed, it says when sentenced, and he was 18 when sentenced.
An appeals court won't even consider this.
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)The penalty in this case could have been either life with parole or life without parole.
wild bird
(421 posts)but the SCOTUS didn't completely ban life w/o parole for juveniles, as you stated, just mandatory sentence of life without parole.
This alone leads me to believe that any appeal on these grounds will be refused.
Scairp
(2,749 posts)As close as you can get without actually doing it. I think their intent was clear that no child, no matter the heinous nature of the crime they have been convicted of committing, should be locked up for life, no chance for parole, ever. This case will be appealed, and I think this Supreme Court decision will be at least a part of it, perhaps a large part. I don't know of course, I never went to law school, but sentencing a teenager to life without should be considered cruel and unusual punishment. I know this was the worst crime possible to imagine and I want them locked up for a long time because they are dangerous, but when it comes to everything else in life, minors are treated differently. They can't enter into legal contracts without parental permission, they can't drink until 21, they can't join the military until 17 and that's with parental permission; they cannot marry. I could go on but my point is why do we treat teens like adults when they commit crimes but when it comes to everything else we treat them like the kids they still are? I don't get it and I guess I never will.
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)The penalty in this case could have either been life with parole or life without parole thus meeting the 'no mandatory'
prohibition.
See: http://www.scotusblog.com/miller-v-alabama/
bluesbassman
(19,379 posts)A baby killer is not going to have any cred inside. Unless he's in isolation for the rest of his days the odds are somebody will take him out.
Note that I am not advocating for, nor cheering this eventuality; it's just a cold fact of prison life.
maxsolomon
(33,400 posts)kid was 17 - i understand it's a heinous, heartless crime, but that's a mitigating circumstance. it's possible that in 30, 40, 50 years he might warrant parole.
YarnAddict
(1,850 posts)that child will still be dead.
Sorry, no mitigating circumstances will undo what that a-hole did.
maxsolomon
(33,400 posts)so is there ever a mitigating circumstance?
“The quality of mercy is not strained.
It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven
Upon the place beneath. It is twice blessed:
It blesseth him that gives and him that takes.
'Tis mightiest in the mightiest. It becomes
The thronèd monarch better than his crown.
His scepter shows the force of temporal power,
The attribute to awe and majesty
Wherein doth sit the dread and fear of kings,
But mercy is above this sceptered sway.
It is enthronèd in the hearts of kings.
It is an attribute to God himself.
And earthly power doth then show likest God’s
When mercy seasons justice."
-Shakespeare
LisaL
(44,974 posts)Baby was completely defenseless, sitting in his stroller.
maxsolomon
(33,400 posts)he was a juvenile. he probably thought about what he was going to do for a millisecond.
the kid is a heartless killer, but even charles manson is eligible for parole.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)if she didn't give him money.
He than shot her multiple times, fought her off, then pointed the gun at the baby's face and blew his brains out.
This was the second person he shot in a week.
Some people are beyond redemption. This is one of them.
maxsolomon
(33,400 posts)But, in 50 years, when he's nearly 70, is it possible that he would not be "beyond redemption"? I say it's possible.
Manson is eligible for parole - though no one's about to let him out. Why does Charles Manson or countless other murderers warrant a the possibility of redemption?
The sentence is without mercy. I'd rather he had been sentenced to death and it had already been carried out. It is more merciful than 60 years in prison contemplating his crime - what is the point of year 39? Year 57? None.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)This wasn't a crime of passion, or one of an emotional outburst.
This guy threatened to kill a baby if he didn't get money, when the woman didn't have any money, he walked over and killed the baby as if it were as routine as taking a piss.
Sorry, but society's interest is in protecting itself from this guy, not looking after his interests beyond those constitutionally required.
maxsolomon
(33,400 posts)A lot of factors play into juvenile crime, not the least of which is testosterone and immature brain biology.
Society does have a VERY valid interest in protecting itself from this guy, but if he's beyond redemption as you say, I'd rather we'd execute him as we would a mad dog - quickly and dispassionately. However, the State was "merciful" and sentenced him to life in prison BECAUSE his youth was a mitigating factor.
I daresay if he was 18 he'd be on death row.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)the SCOTUS said they couldn't execute him.
wild bird
(421 posts)the judge tacked on an additional 105 years for the lesser included charges.
An appropriate sentence considering the baby boy will never know another day of life.
maxsolomon
(33,400 posts)and execution is considered cruel and unusual for minors.
as i said, a quick, painless execution is more merciful than 60-70 years in prison.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)shall avoid really severe punishments for crimes like shooting a baby in the face.
If like in prison is worse than execution from his perspective, so much the better.
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)christx30
(6,241 posts)Make it to year 39 or 57. And the point of the sentence will be made within the next two years. This young man will look at that tiny cell and he will begin to grasp that he will never leave that place. He will never go to college. He will never get married.
What would be the point in letting him out in 10 years? If I were the parent of the baby he shot, I would be angry. I could have a beautiful 10 year old child running around the house. But instead all I have is a picture of my murdered child. And his murderer is now 27 and free to make a life for himself. He probably still has the same mindset and the same friends, still living in the same culture.
Screw this "kid". He made his choice when he decided to go the criminal route rather that working and making something of himself. That's one slot in a good 4 year school that can be filled my a decent person.
maxsolomon
(33,400 posts)i'm not suggesting that he be offered parole in 10 years. i don't know where you got that, and i don't think he deserves that kind of consideration in any way.
but in 40 years? 50? 60? what would be the point in imprisoning a 77 year old in 2073? will he have learned his lesson at 87? will he have enough testosterone left to be a threat to society at 97?
we put down mad dogs, but putting down mad humans is too cruel. christ times 30, indeed!
christx30
(6,241 posts)letting him out?
I used 10 years as a lowball example, because I honestly don't think he'll survive that long.
And it's not just him. People in that culture seem to revere criminals. Drug dealers, gang members. The Avon Barksdale type people are very popular in those neighborhoods. There are probably folks there that are saying she should've given up her money. They choose to act that way. Tgey want to know why their neighborhoods are full of drugs and crime and ugliness. This is probably not the first violent crime commited by this piece of puke. At some point someone he respected could have smacked the crap out of him and told him to grow the hell up, finish school and get a job like a normal person. But they all worshipped the Avon Barksdales of the world.
This prick is now going to learn that actions have consequences that will last the rest of their lives. I hope his friends get the message.
maxsolomon
(33,400 posts)Christ times 30.
christx30
(6,241 posts)message on my iPhone on the bus and you quote two sentences? That's all you have for me? What exactly is objectionable in what I said?
tblue37
(65,489 posts)such a reference to "that culture" is a prejudicial characterization--with overtones of racism. "That culture" is a pathological culture created by poverty and oppression.
Yes, people like him who choose to commit heinous crimes must be held responsible and punished, as he has been and will be, but by the time this man became the sort of person who could coldly shoot a baby in the face, his "choices" were to a significant degree constrained by what he had become, and what he became was largely determined by the conditions of the life he was born into.
But he was not born a remorseless babykilling POS. He was born an innocent baby into an environment that NO child should be born into, an environment that exists only because greed and heartlessness are pervasive pathologies in our society, and we lack the social and political will to protect children and their families from being shaped by their own suffering in such an environment.
He was not born a monster but was made monstrous by the influences of his environment.
Yes, many people in similar circumstances do not become evil monsters capable of committing such an act, but many people DO, and we KNOW that such an environment produces quite a lot of people like that. Yet as a society, we are willing to let children be born into such an environment so that some other equally remorseless criminals can become so rich and powerful that they have nothing left to do with their time and money but to purchase the government in order to shape rhe rest of society in their own twisted, sociopathic image.
This young man murdered that baby because the guy has no conscience and no empathy. He wants what he wants when he wants it, andd he does not see other people, not even innocent babies, as human beings but as objects or obstacles to his getting what he wants. And he destroys obstacles that prevent him from getting what he wants when he wants it.
A lot of rich, powerful sociopaths also do not see innocent babies as human beings they should empathize with, which us why they on't care that so many babies born into such an environment live lives of desperate poverty, abuse, and hopelessness.
As a child's brain develops, it is shaped by its environment. Many sociopaths--in fact most, with very few exceptions caused by accidental glitches during fetal development--are created by environmental influences, and the environment that produced this monster was created by a society that allows its powerful sociopaths to completely run the show.
We don't punish the rich and powerful people whose choices essentially destroy the lives of innocent babies born into such environments, but besides destroying young men like this one by turning them into monsters, those rich and powerful POSs are also responsible for creating conditions that cause the deaths of innumerable babies even before they have a chance to "choose" to grow up to become sociopathic monsters.
I'd love to see those rich, powerful monsters also sentenced to life without the possibility of parole.
On edit: I spent 30 minutes tapping thiis reply out on my Nook tablet.
christx30
(6,241 posts)"You're a sociopath that shot a baby in the face. But you DID grow up on the east side, so we're going to sentence you to 15 years. The mayor is being arrested for this. Its all his fault, and he's getting 20 years."
This little bastard chose the life he was going to lead. He chose to rob from people and threaten children.
Why is crime high in those areas? People like that.
"No snowflake believes it is responsible for the avalanche."
He deserves no sympathy. He deserves no mercy. He deserves to never breathe free air again. And if he dies in prison, it should be announced very publicly. Maybe that'll stop other young people turn away from that criminal lifestyle.
NickB79
(19,273 posts)My grandfather was barely 17 when his boots hit the ground in France and they handed him a submachine gun.
Forgive me if I don't consider being 17 a mitigating circumstance for murdering a baby.
Daniel537
(1,560 posts)He's right where he belongs.
rug
(82,333 posts)LisaL
(44,974 posts)He actually pulled the trigger.
rug
(82,333 posts)The baby was killed during a robbery. This 17 year old didn't jump out of the bushes just to kill a baby.
LisaL
(44,974 posts)rug
(82,333 posts)Is it better in your mind that he spends every day from age 17 to death in prison?
LisaL
(44,974 posts)LisaL
(44,974 posts)Baby was killed deliberately because mother wouldn't give him money.
And ten days prior to that, he shot a reverend during robbery because reverend wouldn't give him money.
wild bird
(421 posts)He's exactly where he belongs, if let out again, I've not doubt whatsoever that he would kill again.
Fuck him, he can rot in prison.
rug
(82,333 posts)You have zero basis to conclude he will kill again, not to mention that you can claim it with no doubt.
These blood thirsty, emotional responses to a horrible event has as much meaning for public policy as screaming at a football game.
wild bird
(421 posts)I stand 100% behind my statement, this POS is ir-redeemable and he can rot in prison for the rest of his wasted life.
rug
(82,333 posts)BTW, welcome to DU. Enjoy your stay. I look forward to more thoughts of yours on how human beings can be pieces of shit.
wild bird
(421 posts)shit has more redeeming qualities than this, whatever it is, shit can be used to fertilize crops.
wild bird
(421 posts)if this scum had walked up to you and your baby with a gun, demanded money or he was going to shoot your baby in the face, then proceeded to do exactly what he said he would do, would you be demanding parole for him?
It's easy for you to say he deserves parole because it didn't happen to you.
I suspect if it came right down to it, your tune would be far different.
rug
(82,333 posts)The only stupider question when was Bernard Shaw asked Dukakis during the debate how he would feel if Kitty had been raped.
On second thought, that was less stupid.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)was that he be allowed to move within two blocks of where you have family with small children?
rug
(82,333 posts)But I'll answer. Yes, I would. Given how difficult it is to get parole and the level of supervision during parole, I'd have no qualms whatsoever.
It is exceedingly foolish to make decisions on policy, crime and punishment based on personal opinions.
I'll demonstrate. Would you be so fervent in advocating military strikes on Syria if you had a family with small children living in Damascus?
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)rug
(82,333 posts)
billh58
(6,635 posts)left the building because he was an NRA troll and a repeat offender. There's no doubt that he, and others like him, will be back to disrupt DU, but let me give them some advice for the next attempt: Stay in the Gungeon, because you will fit right in and will have much less risk of being PPR'd.
rug
(82,333 posts)billh58
(6,635 posts)he sent in a membership renewal to the NRA. FWIW, this is the third time he has been booted from DU.
rug
(82,333 posts)Travis_0004
(5,417 posts)He wanted to rob the mom, so he told the woman if she did not give him the purse, he was going to shoot the kid. He then counted down from 5, then shot the kid. That is cold blooded, and he doesn't deserve to ever walk the streets again, so I have no problem with this sentence.
rug
(82,333 posts)What will you say if he's deemed rehabilitated and no risk in 30 or 40 years>
Don't tell me, is it "Tough Shit"?
Did I get that right?
Travis_0004
(5,417 posts)How many people do we let out, only to have them kill again. Do you really think letting him spend 30 years with a bunch of other criminals is going to improve him.
I would rather keep him in jail, its safer for society. Maybe that isn't fair, but I don't really care. He may never get to experience an adult life, but neither will that baby.
rug
(82,333 posts)That's why parole is essential. If he's not, he won't be paroled. If he is, he should get out.
Either way, 18 is not the point to determine that.
tabasco
(22,974 posts)Please explain.
This ought to be good.
rug
(82,333 posts)That aside, do you approve of sentences of life without parole? Why?
This ought to be good.
wild bird
(421 posts)and the lack of remorse from this human garbage, you're damn right I do.
Like I said, I watched him during the trial, I watched his reaction, or lack thereof, when the verdict was read, he showed no remorse, he had dead eyes, he just didn't care that he took the life of a baby boy.
This kid is a sociopath and probably a serial killer in training.
You gotta wonder how many crimes he committed before he got popped for this one.
rug
(82,333 posts)Fast forward 30, 40 years.
wild bird
(421 posts)you mistake me for someone who cares, I don't.
Not only did the waste get life w/o parole, the judge tacked on an xtra 105 years for the lesser included charges.
He'll rot in prison, if he lasts that long, baby killers don't have a very good survival rate in prison.
And before you ask, no, I don't want the cons to kill him, I want him to live a long, miserable, lonely life in prison.
rug
(82,333 posts)What I'm trying to discern is a rational, sane basis for that.
wild bird
(421 posts)So, here we are at an impasse.
You think he deserves parole at some time, I don't.
rug
(82,333 posts)wild bird
(421 posts)but in this case, we're not, we're dealing with a vicious animal who has no regards for human life.
Fuck him, he's exactly where he belongs and I won't lose one minute of sleep over him.
rug
(82,333 posts)Who else did that?
wild bird
(421 posts)between the eyes.
He declared himself non human when he shot that pastor 10 days earlier because he wouldn't give him any money.
He declared himself non human when he showed no remorse for his criminal actions.
rug
(82,333 posts)wild bird
(421 posts)JI7
(89,274 posts)he said he will kill the baby if she doesn't hand over her bag.
wercal
(1,370 posts)This wasn't an accidental byproduct of a robbery. As soon as her said 'Give me money or I will shoot the baby', his actions became very premeditated and deliberate.
I don't know if it matters though. I looked up GA law, and as far as I can tell, there are only two possible penalties for murder and felony murder - execution or life in prison. There is no distinction between the two in sentencing.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Felony murder is when you commit burglary or steal a car and someone dies as a result, even if you didn't try to kill them.
rug
(82,333 posts)It would be two separate felonies.
Either way, though, life without parole for a crime committed at 17 is too harsh.
wild bird
(421 posts)not this waste of a human being, if that's what he is.
rug
(82,333 posts)wild bird
(421 posts)Just for the record, I'm on record here at DU as being 100% opposed to any military action against Syria.
Satisfied? 
rug
(82,333 posts)There are at least some you do not consider "human waste" or "pieces of shit".
BTW, you have written nothing that requires deflection.
wild bird
(421 posts)This waste of a life is no innocent kid, that's the difference.
He should, and will, never see a day of freedom again, meanwhile, the parents of that beautiful baby have to live the rest of their lives with just the memory of him.
I'll save my sympathy for them, not the murderer.
rug
(82,333 posts)wild bird
(421 posts)Here, let me help.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014593323#post2
Good, this POS baby killer should never see a day of freedom again.
Life w/o parole? Better than the death penalty, he gets to dwell on what he did for the rest of his life, although I doubt he has any remorse.
Now, on to his accomplice's trial.
I'm also on record here on DU as being opposed to the death penalty.
So far, your batting a 1000.
I watched this ..... during the trial and when the verdict was read, he showed no remorse, no soul, he had dead eyes.
He's worthless and is where he belongs for the rest of his miserable life.
rug
(82,333 posts)I doubt you oppose the death penalty on humanitarian or justice grounds.
"he gets to dwell on what he did for the rest of his life" sounds like exquisite torture.
wild bird
(421 posts)For the next person who crosses paths with him.
You have no idea why I fundamentally oppose the death penalty, let me educate you, the State shouldn't be in the business of killing it's citizens, it's also immoral and doesn't deter crime, and too many people who have been sentenced to death are later exonerated.
You're just on a roll today, aren't you?
rug
(82,333 posts)Other than your fevered opinion, why do you think this guy at 18, will be irredeemable at 48, 58, or 68?
As a corollary, do you think correctional institutions should attempt rehabilitation?
wild bird
(421 posts)and then cold bloodedly shot him in the face because mom didn't have any money to give him.
I favor parole for those that deserve it, he doesn't.
As I said earlier, save it for someone who cares, my sympathies lie with the family of the murdered baby.
rug
(82,333 posts)Punishment, deterrence, and rehabilitation. You're feeding the first two and ignoring the last.
wild bird
(421 posts)This is the perfect sentence for that monster.
Anyone who can deliberately target a baby and then shoot it in the face just because mom didn't have any money to give, is nothing more than a monster and should never see the light of freedom again, and thank god this waste of a life never will.
rug
(82,333 posts)What's worse, "human waste", "piece of shit", or "monster"?
It sounds like your view of human beings comes from comic books.
RebelOne
(30,947 posts)all apply to someone who cold-bloodedly shoots an innocent baby in the head.
rug
(82,333 posts)you're welcome to it. The fact remains, these are still human beings who did these things. A smarter reaction is to figure out why.
wild bird
(421 posts)rug
(82,333 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)of the defendant's commission of another felony.
When you shoot someone in the face, it's just straight up murder.
If you ever take the bar exam, that's the difference.
Someone who shoots two people within a week, and in cold blood walks up to an 18 month old and shoots him in the face, is human waste and beyond redemption. Society can't create a decent human being where a monster exists.
rug
(82,333 posts)Have you taken a bar exam?
BTW, do you advocate for his execution?
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Since the death penalty is unconstitutional for offenses committed while under 18, death penalty has never been on the table.
He got life in prison, with no possibility of being released to kill again. That's the appropriate sentence.
rug
(82,333 posts)Do you personally agree this defendant should not be executed?
BTW, what type of law do you practice?
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)to harm members of the public.
Plaintiffs' class action.
rug
(82,333 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)I don't believe the state should execute anybody.
Does this perp deserve the death penalty? Probably, but that doesn't mean he should get it.
rug
(82,333 posts)Sounds weasely.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)One is the proper role and limits on state power. The other is the general moral culpability and worth of the defendant.
My view is that the death penalty should not be applied ever, not even if the person does deserve it.
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)The "life without parole" aspect, IMO, is more debatable. Some countries, like Norway, don't even have such a sentence on the books - and these are generally the countries with far lower violent-crime rates than ours.
On a visceral, emotional level, I might think that the guy deserves whatever happens to him, including being assaulted/murdered in prison. But our legal system doesn't operate on visceral emotion, and with very good reason.
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)a permanent danger to others. Doesn't necessarily have to involve a desire for revenge, though I'm sure it often does in practice. But nonetheless, "justice" should not be guided by these primal impulses.
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)in most cases anyway. I was just pointing out that, in the eyes of the legal system, such a sentence is not about revenge necessarily, but about protecting society from a dangerous individual.
rug
(82,333 posts)wild bird
(421 posts)by shooting him between the eyes?
You seem to have more empathy for this murdering scum than either of the victims, the mom who was shot in the leg and the baby who was shot between the eyes.
rug
(82,333 posts)You're entitled to your own emotional reaction, no matter how primitive, to this killing.
But you're certainly not qualified to determine anyone else's, including mine.
Binary emotions are as unproductive as binary thoughts.
wild bird
(421 posts)Number 2, my reaction isn't emotional, it's practical, as was the judge's decision to impose life w/o parole + 105 years.
Don't pretend to know why I'm like I am, you have no clue why I have no empathy for this garbage.
rug
(82,333 posts)Don't worry, I truly do not give a shit why you are like that. I've met enough people who spout the same crap to not care where it's coming from.
It remains unsupportable bullshit, regardless.
wild bird
(421 posts)As does your position.
rug
(82,333 posts)wild bird
(421 posts)For me, it all comes down to, will this waste ever hurt another innocent person again?
No.
You know why? Because he's never going to walk the streets again. He'll die in prison, where he belongs.
So, life w/o parole does work.
rug
(82,333 posts)You know, this really has nothing to do with how you feel.
You can cite all the research you want, it doesn't change the fact that this vicious animal will never be able to hurt another innocent human because he'll never walk free again, the judge had the foresight to put this animal where he belongs forever.
rug
(82,333 posts)Probably because of your premise that he's an animal.
I daresay within the 60 or so years of life left to him, these rabid, ignorant sentiments will be rejected and LWOP and the death penalty will be relegated to where they belong.
That, or a society populated by crowds shouting - or typing - "Scum!" at the outrage de jour.
wild bird
(421 posts)Baby killers have a very dismal survival rate in prison, they're in the same class as pedophiles, cops, snitches and spies.
Unless the warden places him in solitary confinement, I seriously doubt he'll last a year.
Daniel537
(1,560 posts)then prison in and of itself is barbaric as well, since an inmate can die in prison at any time, whether by his own hand or at the hands of others. So do you favor abolishing prisons altogether?
rug
(82,333 posts)and doing time with the absolute certainty of dying inside.
It goes against every civilized notion of penology.
Daniel537
(1,560 posts)Last i checked, the anti-DP crowd has always offered it as the perfect alternative to capital punishment, now LWOP is barbaric as well? Lol, why stop there? Abolish the entire penal system while you're at it.
rug
(82,333 posts)That doesn't make it "the perfect alternative".
But go on, now. Don't forget to bring up Willie Horton.
Daniel537
(1,560 posts)As for Willie Horton, yeah, your free to visit that murderous thug as much as you want, as well.
rug
(82,333 posts)Fortunately, however, they're on the wrong side of history.
BTW, Willie Horton already served his purpose by helping getting GHWB elected as a poster boy for LWOP. You may wish to share your views with George, Sr.
longship
(40,416 posts)Not that I condone that -- I do not.
But murder in the commission of a felony has historically drawn the harshest penalties.
It's up to the parole board and the courts to decide whether this guy ever sees freedom again. I am willing to leave it to that.
At least he didn't get the death penalty, which I think is cruel and unusual punishment. At least we no longer fry people alive. But evidence is that current death by injection can equally go radically wrong. That's if you ignore the ethical issues.
rug
(82,333 posts)But a distinction is often drawn for sentencing purposes.
The problem I have with these bloodthirsty reactions is that thought flies out the window.
It's an old maxim that bad facts make bad law. These facts are pretty bad but the cries for revenge don't really offer a just solution. If anything, it's a small reminder of how 9/11 ended up in the Patriot Act and Iraq.
longship
(40,416 posts)
aikoaiko
(34,183 posts)...according to the mother's testimony.
Calling it felony murder is really minimizing what he did. Its not like it was an accidental trigger pull while he robbing the mother.
rug
(82,333 posts)Daniel537
(1,560 posts)He just happened to shoot a baby dead because mom had no money. The poor guy, he was probably just looking for some extra bucks to feed his family, no doubt. Tell you what, if your so concerned about his welfare, contact the GA Department of Corrections and you can write or visit him as much as you want, the rest of us sane folk, we'd rather have this thug right where he is.
rug
(82,333 posts)"us sane folk" does not apply to irrational notions of punishment.
Daniel537
(1,560 posts)Like i said, feel free to give this guy a visit if you want. I'll save my concern for the mother in this case who will clearly need a lot of help to recover from this tragedy.
rug
(82,333 posts)What help are you providing?
Daniel537
(1,560 posts)But by all means, keep advocating on behalf of this upstanding citizen.
rug
(82,333 posts)wild bird
(421 posts)to do to somone else what he did to her and her baby.
That's all the reason I need to know that this was the correct sentence.
BTW, I am trying to help her, I'm trying to find a site where I can donate money to her to help her move on from what this monster did to her and her family.
What are you doing? Except trying to justify the reason this monster deserves parole?
rug
(82,333 posts)that this young man will spend the rest of his days incarcerated. Maybe she will, maybe she won't. There are, however, many crime victims who take more comfort in the power of forgiveness than in the power of vengeance.
I really disrespect people who use victims to peddle a political agenda.
Here, make a donation:
http://cjcc.georgia.gov/victims-compensation
wild bird
(421 posts)I did, and she made it quite clear that she does not want him ever walking the streets as free again.
Thanks for the link, going to donate $1,000.00 in her name.
rug
(82,333 posts)You don't believe that I will?
rug
(82,333 posts)wild bird
(421 posts)I had planned to, but now, not so much, so you'll have to take my word for it.
Or not, I don't care.
rug
(82,333 posts)dawn frenzy adams
(429 posts)Eighteen and life you got it
Eighteen and life you know
Your crime is time and it's
Eighteen and life to go
Eighteen and life you got it
Eighteen and life you know
Your crime is time and it's
Eighteen and life to go
Skid Row
Kumbricia
(84 posts)Whoever sold him the gun or gave him access to it needs jail time as well
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Lenomsky
(340 posts)but WOW ..
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)On the one hand, the guy was only 17 when he committed the crime. On the other hand, his crime was so vicious and unconscionable that I rather doubt he'll ever be rehabilitated, even after decades in prison.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)Georgia should give all the 'forever in prison people' access to self suicide pills.
telclaven
(235 posts)I'm troubled because I can't see any logical reason not to. That might actually be some viable kind of process.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)magical thyme
(14,881 posts)Ime, over time you only become more of who you really are. 
mn9driver
(4,428 posts)He can rot.
richmwill
(1,326 posts)A few here apparently would hug the 17 year old and pat him on the back while saying "It's ok- people make mistakes, I care about you"...
AngryAmish
(25,704 posts)Check on this guy when he is 40. Maybe he can be let go and not be such a burden. Most criminals don't offend after their early 30s. Lower testosterone and whatnot.
But if this guy is really dangerous (psychopath or just plain crazy) then check on him in another three years.
I don't think as a society we should be in the business is keeping people in jail forever for something they do when they are 17.
But it gets votes at election time, no?
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)a baby in the face for no reason whatsoever, they're not going to grow a soul in prison.
AngryAmish
(25,704 posts)They just killed this kid. He will have no life.
wild bird
(421 posts)He can rot in prison for the rest of his life for all I care, although, unless he's put in protective custody, his life will be a short one, baby killers don't do well in prison.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)and then shot him/her in the face?
People can change. Monsters don't.
The main priority is making sure this monster doesn't kill any more innocents. That means never giving him the opportunity to do this again.
RebelOne
(30,947 posts)Hopefully that kid lives a life of hell in prison.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)But the guy shot a baby in the face. Deliberately. What are the chances someone like that will be meaningfully rehabilitated even after 20, 30, 40 years?
novapress
(11 posts) RebelOne
(30,947 posts)christx30
(6,241 posts)while the mother tries to protect him is harsh.
wild bird
(421 posts)"Life without parole for a juvenile, with all due respect to the court, our position remains that is cruel and unusual punishment," said Kevin Gough.
As opposed to murdering a baby boy by shooting him between the eyes?
The SCOTUS has said that life w/o parole for a juvenile violates the 8th Amendment, this scum was sentenced as an adult, he has already turned 18, the SCOTUS says nothing about when the offense occured, just when the sentence is handed down.
http://www.youthlaw.org/juvenile_justice/6/us_supreme_court_bans_mandatory_life_without_parole_for_youth/
And then there's this,
Plus, the judge tacked on another 105 years for the lesser included charges.
maxsolomon
(33,400 posts)Perhaps he'll use it in his appeal.
As murder cases can take several years to process, the caveat regarding age at sentencing seems absurd and ripe for a challenge. Theoretically, a 15 year old could be sentenced to life without parole if the prosecutor can delay the trial 3 years.
wild bird
(421 posts)The SCOTUS did not completely ban life w/o parole for juveniles.
TorchTheWitch
(11,065 posts)They ruled that MANDATORY life without parole sentences for juveniles under 18 violate the 8th Amendment (i.e.: no lesser sentence can be chosen). His sentence was not a mandatory sentence of life without parole because there was a choice between life with OR without parole. In this case, the choice between the two happened to be life without parole. There is nothing to appeal on by this ruling since the life without parole sentence was not a mandatory one - there was a choice between life with OR without parole, and in this case, the choice made happened to be life without parole. Maybe you're confused about what a mandatory sentence is.
wild bird
(421 posts)But the lawyer is still and idiot if he thinks he can win an appeal on this issue, the judge had 2 choices, either life without parole or life with parole, that satisfies the Court's ruling.
TorchTheWitch
(11,065 posts)I must have missed the up thread bit, but I haven't been reading all the posts.
In any case, this dude should never spend a single day free for the remainder of his life. He's a sick twisted fuck. Prison won't rehabilitate him. I don't think our prison system rehabilitates anyone... I don't think it's designed to rehabilitate anyone in the first place.
I don't care that he was 17 when he did it. One year (or however many months till he turned 18) wouldn't have made a shit's bit of difference. He's just a depraved evil piece of shit and was PLENTY old enough to know better. I think people either have basic compassion and humanity or they don't. This monster doesn't have an ounce of either and never will.
wild bird
(421 posts)In my opinion, this monster is not redeemable and should spend the rest of his life in prison, although I suspect that unless he's in solitary, it will be a short and violent life, baby killers don't do well in prison.
alphafemale
(18,497 posts)His mother will get to see and hug him on occasion.
He will still get to feel sunshine on his face every now and then.
He can read. He can write to people.
I hope he does better himself and atone.
But true atonement does not say...look at me now....I write poetry.
Let me out now. I promise to be good.
Bullshit.
Atonement says. I deserve to be here.
But I need to find a way to make a difference in people's lives from the place I PUT MYSELF.
He deliberately shot a baby in the face.
I hope he can find his humanity again.
But it will have to be found in a place locked away from the rest of us...forever.
wild bird
(421 posts)Although, unless he's in solitary confinement, he won't have a very long life, baby killers don't tend to do very well in prison.
That's just a fact of prison life.
Mojo Electro
(362 posts)By doing what he did, he permanently forfeited his right to ever live freely in a civilized society. People like him are what prison is for, to separate people like this from decent people.
It's not about what best for him, it's about what's best for society, and what's best for society is that he not be a part of it.
Admittedly, we imprison way too many people in America, mostly for nonsense drug charges and what not. But in this case, life without parole is the way to go, IMO.
I'm not one of these people who say "I hope he gets beaten and raped and abused in prison" and such. That is pure vengeance and does nobody any good. But I'm fine with him being cast out, to live out his days locked up in the pokey.
He had his chance at life and he fucked up bad. Good riddance.
Niceguy1
(2,467 posts)An accidental heat of the moment killing life w/o parole is an appropriate sentence. He carried out threats, which is a sign of premeditation. Sorry, no secon d chances for that.
Loudly
(2,436 posts)Last edited Fri Sep 13, 2013, 11:42 PM - Edit history (1)
wild bird
(421 posts) Loudly
(2,436 posts)Some things just follow themselves.
wild bird
(421 posts)It has to do with the sentencing of this POS.
Start your own thread instead of trying to hijack this one.
Loudly
(2,436 posts)To my way of thinking, a certain attitude about guns has this as a natural result. That's just the way I associate and relate to the two.
wild bird
(421 posts)I'm a strong supporter of gun control, although I don't go as far as you seem to, I believe that people have a inherent right to self defense, hunting and target/competitive shooting.
But this isn't the thread for that discussion, that's for another thread.
RebelOne
(30,947 posts)He would have gotten 150 years without parole.
LAdemCali
(6 posts)they are destroying our youth through these heinous and cruel punishments.
wild bird
(421 posts)and the cruel punishment inflicted upon the parents of this baby boy, parents who will never get to hold their boy again, never get to see him grow up, never get to see him graduate, get married, have grandchildren
FFS, cry me a fucking river.
gopiscrap
(23,765 posts)gopiscrap
(23,765 posts)
defacto7
(13,485 posts)A 17 year old does this heinous act, he is tried, found guilty and sentenced. The unasked question is, why?
Has anyone among these comments thought about mental disease or brain disorder? No, not as an excuse but as a simple answer to the question of why he did this. Has anyone really thought about what it means to be diseased in the mind or how many people are mentally or socially warped that never get themselves in such a position as life without parole? I agree with those who think this kid should be locked up interminably, but the reason this kid has been convicted is not that he is extraordinarily inhuman, but that he was stupid.
There are people walking the streets who would do such things or maybe have done similar acts of incivility who have never been caught and probably never will be. They are your next door neighbor, or at least someone's. What this kid did, the act itself, is not unusual among humans. It's a disease, or a brain disorder, or maybe a social disorder that is shared by many who you would never suspect to be such. They are not in prison, they are not convicted or in the light of our media cults. They are just sick minded humans that either have a certain amount of personal control or are smart enough to not get caught. They wouldn't need money or drugs or anything tangible, they would do this for nothing.
So when you make your hateful, angry and self righteous comments which may be well deserved, separating his acts from your own by stating how he is some sort of animal, don't forget that he is not the worst offender on the block, just the most visible. You may want to put that into perspective and smoke it for a while. Humans are more complicated than what you may think.
Inkfreak
(1,695 posts)
theHandpuppet
(19,964 posts)... because anyone that sick at 17 isn't likely to have some kind of epiphany where he discovers a conscience and some shred of humanity. That poor baby wasn't even the first person he shot.
That said, I wonder if Mr. Elkins had a psychological/psychiatric evaluation and if so, what were the findings.
