Child was DNA tested, she isn't related to them.

There're plenty of folk-tales going back hundreds of years of the Roma kidnapping children.

I see plenty of two "brown skinned" parents with blonde children, or the opposite, of all races and kinds in my neighborhood. By 'plenty' I mean scores. I don't think "DNA testing" is enough to verify an abduction, a kidnapping.

leads to the conclusion there was an abduction, since there are no biological parents around to say otherwise.

You don't get to raise other people's children, much less put them on the streets to beg, without some proof that you are authorized to do so.

From the article:

The couple had registered different numbers of children with different regional family registries.

The woman claimed to have given birth to six children within a 10-month period.

'Begging'
When questioned about how they came to have Maria, the couple gave "constantly changing claims," Thessalia Province Police Director Vassilis Halatsis said.

Little documentation thwre is of rom families, in some areas there is no need for birth certificates etc it all depends where you travel. Even then real names are not used outside of the families, so even names on paper mean nothing.

with "outsiders" for benefits for the children they claim to have had. They can't have it both ways.

So off course fake names are.used. techincally they are not living amongst outsiders not in the sense you mean as that would be unclean..

And that child clearly is not one of the Roma. If they can prove otherwise they would have done so.

IMHO, they are no different than extreme libertarians in this country, holding themselves out as exempt from the laws in the larger society in which they dwell.

She may not be related to the family she was with but that does not mean she is not tsigan or rom or from any other family. Frankly got no idea if she is or not,

of how she came to be with them. And then they put her in the streets to beg. They don't deserve your sympathy.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/greece/10390084/Appeal-to-identify-four-year-old-girl-in-Greek-Roma-camp.html

"The suspects allegedly offered conflicting accounts – that the girl was found in a blanket, was handed to them by strangers or had a foreign father."

A lot of pull or a rom court.

Doesn't really pass the smell test.

Has all the hallmarks of an abduction in any other society I am aware of.

Here an adoption is done differently which can be for the better or worse, we dont know in this case where the girl came from and the problem is if she came from another family its all very well putting her the web but the chances of her family having internet could be remote in the extreme.

If these oh so special people reserve the right to say nothing when suspected of a crime put them in jail and leave them there. They have a choice.

They have the choice to break either set of laws, there is a price for both.

Much the same as a lot of minority groups and indigenous peoples.

They can obey the laws of the land in which they reside or go to jail. This culture sounds hideous and harmful to itself and any society in which it operates.

The thought that it is damaging to any society that allows it to exist is the basis for most of the times of darkening or pogroms that have come along.

People need to obey the laws of the countries they are in or get the fuck out. No one deserves special treatment to make up their own laws.

You get an exodus, usually the kids go first followed by the adults. Sometimes just to the less populated areas sometimes to other countries.

And people need to stop defending them. They are living in the past. No one can continue to exist and do that.

Guess we all should just become average americans with a mortgage etc.

Those people aren't fucking wretched child traffickers.

What next are you going to destroy other countries who have a minority within it who traffick.

Are you joking?

There is nothing "special" about the right to say nothing when suspected of a crime.

WTF?

Interesting video at this link--they've had this kid for awhile, and I think the "parents" are child traffickers, myself. We'll see.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/mystery-blonde-girl-well-looked-025930918.html

For a long time, the EU has been highlighting it in reports for a long time.

muster.

I'd trust a Greek court before I would trust a liar who has been defrauding the Greek government of welfare benefits for years, who has possession of a child not her own, who lied repeatedly to authorities.

That's not cultural--that's criminal.

That child was endangered, and now she's not. Good for the Greek government, and shame on the people who stole her.

And there treatment of the rom, i am sure that they will take your word for it rather than decades of documented biases.

abusers and traffickers should go to jail--and these people are child abusers at a minimum, and child traffickers at worst case.

Here's some light reading for you, courtesy of the European Roma Rights Centre--you need to open your eyes, you don't have a clear picture, here, plainly: http://www.errc.org/cms/upload/file/breaking-the-silence-19-march-2011.pdf

Seems the reports are now saying that they believe she was begging, but was taken from the camp due to her features. Very interesting. Plus i will say it again none of these things are rom culture rather like they are not latino culture or white culture or french culture but they happen in all societies.

You do know that there are millions of kids in families who share no dna to the now parents. Does this mean they are all trafficked.

Millions of kids who share no DNA with their parents have ADOPTION papers, and/or a BIRTH CERTIFICATE with their parents' NAMES on it. You know, the sort of paperwork this kid does NOT have.

Her so-called "parents" don't even know her age. It turns out she's one or two years OLDER than they claimed. Ooops.

But hey, keep digging. You do seem to enjoy that kind of thing....

Simply put again, there is usually no adoption paperwork as it is not done through social services or charities, same with birth certs in many parts as few are born in hospitals etc but rather under the wheel.

They LIED. They told repeatedly conflicting stories, and if they hadn't done anything wrong, they wouldn't keep changing their story.

They lied about the child's age, they apparently lied about when she was handed to them, they have stolen from the Greek social services system, and they need to directly to jail. Do not pass go. Do not collect any more euros.

Simply put, again, no paperwork, no adoption.

It's called TRAFFICKING--and the authorities are suspecting that she was being groomed for the sex trade.
http://www.ktvn.com/story/23742373/greek-police-release-photos-of-abduction-suspects
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-24605954

It's a good thing she was rescued when she was.

And the adoption thing is not as simple as no paperwork no adoption, i dont know how many times i have to say this, paperwork is not used within the community especially stufg like adoption. If the child was taken for nefarious reasons then i am glad she is okay, if its a case of the well known greek governments treatment of the rom then it is another issue. If the child is tsigan as she looks then i wonder if the authorities will give her back to the tsigan or if she will spend her days in an orphanage or given to a non rom family.

The Greek authorities--who, despite your continued denigration of them, are the Good Guys in this equation-- weren't going after this family because they were Roma, it was because they were involved in criminal activity. Weapons, drugs, stolen laptops and chain saws were pulled out of their abode. They weren't looking for this little girl--they found her when they were getting all that stolen material, drugs and weapons.

She needs to go back to her parent(s), and they may not be Roma. If they are, and they just dumped their child on these people, putting her in harm's way, or sold the child, then they shouldn't get the kid back.

Children deserve a safe, sheltered environment--they shouldn't be worried that they'll be put on the street to beg, steal or turn tricks.

Also once again the greek authorities are not unbiased when it comes to the rom as seen by the EU reports. To say the child was just dumped shows a lack of understanding of where she came from, we dont know the truth of her adoption or not adoption. It would not be the first time a rom orphan or kid from an unsafe area is given to another family to raise. The assumption is that the family got her nefariously or for nefarious reasons, when all we have is assumptions that she is being groomed for the sex trade or to be a theif or begging. I hope if she is tsigan then she is placed back with either her family or another rom family rather than stuck in an orphanage.

She was not "adopted" in some kind of friendly, informal way. Friendly adoptions are ones where the adoptive parents KNOW the names of the biological ones. That's not the case here.

She was a TRANSACTION. Her value was in her appearance, she was being groomed to be a trafficked commodity, is my guess.

Your insistence to the contrary is curious.

Very curious, indeed.

Is even more curious. You seem to completely understand that the adoption process is not how you imagine it to be, many kids are sent from unsafe areas to family in other areas without either parents or adoptive parents knowing each other, especially in times of darkening when there may be hundreds of kids being moved. Its not like going to a charity and sitting meeting prospective parents and spending months on paperwork. Sometimes the danger is so real and immediate that it is done overnight.

This family understood the rules and laws well enough to defraud the government of over three thousand dollars a month while running a criminal enterprise, so it's not too much to expect them to follow the law in other respects, too.

Kids are sent to Greece to be TRAFFICKED. They aren't sent there to be safe, they are sent INTO danger there. Apparently you're the only one who is unclear about this pesky little fact.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-24613781

Greece's child-trafficking problem

This is good information.

I'm like Miss Whitney, "I believe the children are our future...."

I can't abide cruelty, and I can't abide cruelty to children, especially.

in defense of abusive "cultures". Some people would rather save a harmful culture than any number of lives.

And as someone who lived in Europe for years, and had to deal with those folks in real life and time, I never heard the term "rom" used to describe them, EVER.

So I'm not sure where you're coming up with that.

Child trafficking is a crime--it is not a "cultural imperative."

Look--you want to whine about how the poor "roms" are being persecuted, start a thread about it. This thread is about how a girl with unmatched DNA has been found living with criminals who forced her into the streets to beg, and who have been defrauding the social service agencies of Greece.

I don't tolerate any "apologies" or "cultural excuses" for child abuse--so just don't even try that crap with me.

For your education rom like tsigan or rrom or roma or any other descriptor is regional.

Try reading the report I've provided for you--your simplistic apologies for criminal behavior just don't cut it with me.

Roma are both victims and perpetrators of human trafficking and enslavement. I fail to understand how you can suggest an element of bigotry when the same "folks" (since when is that word verboten? Any straw to grasp, I suppose) are both the criminals and the victims.

It's not "cultural"--it is a CRIME. And your attempt to deflect from the situation by trying to make it about me ain't cutting it.

You're going to have to show me--with documentation--where you get that "rom" stuff. I don't buy it. I've lived in northern and southern Europe and never once heard it.

Not sure what your agenda is, here, but you don't seem to grasp that slavery is not a cute little cultural tradition, it's against the law.

I will even spell it for you r o m

On edit, i have lived in the US and i dont know all the names of native americans, but i am sure that you must be diffetent having lived in europe.

Keep digging....

I already gave you enough info to find the word even spelling it for you in case you had difficulty.

otherwise, I'm calling you to prove your claim, and all you can say is "Waah, look at Google."

Provide me a link that doesn't go to one of YOUR posts using the term. Otherwise, I dismiss your use of the term as a fiction you've made up, like your accusations against the Greeks in this "Maria" situation.

Then that is your loss, as to accusations i am not te one who makes the European himan rights commission condem the greek treatment of the rom within their borders.

And try reading the Human Rights report I provided in this thread. It will curl your hair.

The Roma are both perpetrators and victims of trafficking--they are both the criminals and the exploited.

You seem to have a hard time grasping this. It isn't the Greeks' fault that Roma are stealing children and using them as currency.

Human trafficking is a crime. You really should stop championing it and calling it "adoption." It's not that.

I have read the report and many more like it, also read the human rights commission reports on greek segregation etc. I unlike you are waiting to see if this is trafficking or a simple adoption or someone else, you seem very mired in the belief that it must be nefarious rather than waiting to see the outcome. That is what i call curious.

assume you invented the term.

Don't insist that others do YOUR proving for you. I'm saying you made it up. Now prove me wrong.

And if it walks like a duck.....

Not me, i think i even spoke of the linguistics of it on another post not my fault if you have issues. Its also amusing that you think an english translation of a foreign word should be spelled not only to your satisfaction but only one way.

You can "LOL" all you'd like but the fact of the matter is you can't prove your claim.

Until you can prove it, I and others will look askance.

If it's "an english translation of a foreign word" then you should be able to find it in an online dictionary with no sweat. Funny that you just don't take that route...?

And now you're waffling on the spelling!

Thanks for proving my point, albeit unintentionally.

Rather than being lazy and confrontational when you google there are numbers at the bottom of the page if you click on them you will go to another page, hope this helps.

Repeated use of "LOL" doesn't make it funny--it does make it kinda pathetic, though.

Go on and find one of those links, since I'm so "clueless" according to you. Come on--you can do it!

Unless you can't?