Even if true.

Civility won't win.

It is getting more apparent that civility is becoming useless

A while backed we practically begged them to tone down the rhetoric and what did they do?...rachet it up...because they see trying to be civil as a sign of weakness and go for the kill.
You cannot be kind and gentle with assholes like that.

Civility was kicked to the curb long ago with these people. When you are a hammer everything looks like a nail. Time our side toughened up and gave them a huge taste of their own yucky medicine.

I just prefer that he not make himself look as stupid as Bachmann and Gohmert.

other than the tea party/klan types? and: he's right.

The KKK comparison is faulty. The Tea Party isn't advocating segregation, it isn't throwing bombs into churches, it isn't killing people (if you don't count what their health care and climate change policies will eventually do), it isn't lighting up crosses. The Tea Party isn't hiding behind sheets, isn't holding secret rallies in the forests, isn't burning out minority owned businesses, isn't hanging lovers for the crime of differing pigments.

As much as their ideas are terrifying, they are not terrorists. For all the convenient speculation around DU that they are mostly upset that the president is black, it's not an obsessive theme in their rallies and literature. If the occasional Freudian slip emerges from a Teaper in the news, be it stars and bars flying at their rallies or a skillful drop of the president's middle name in an interview, it is an embarrassment to the majority of Teapers, not a core theme behind their works.

Now, they are allied with those who are trying to suppress voter turnout. But that's mostly the efforts of mainstream conservatives, not the hysterics of the pandering Tea Party liars. I wouldn't call them enlightened or liberated on social integration or community empowerment, but they're not terrorists. You can't make the comparison without sounding like a bit of bonehead. As a liberal Democrat, I prefer to the leave the sloppy thinking and baseless name-calling to the experits.

to advocating for segregation by their actions moreso than their rhetoric.

Calling your political opponents "terrorists" is something dumbfucks do. The Tea Party, for instance. I personally don't need to validate that comparison. But we're all free to choose our role models in this country.

It's refreshing to find a sensible post among all this hysteria.

It really bothers me when some Republican calls some Democrat a Stalinist or a Nazi. Of course, the Republican will always have some weak, cherry-picked "evidence" to go along with the claim. And if you try to point out that the claim is excessive, you will be shouted down.

By the same token, it really bothers me when some Democrat calls some Republican a Klansman or a Nazi (Nazi seems to be an all-purpose slur). And as before, the Democrat will have some weak, cherry-picked "evidence" to go along with the claim.

Such claims by either party energize the base, but they divide the country. I see my political opponents as they are, misguided and maybe even a little bit stupid. Some (like Bush 2) I even consider criminals. But I do not see them as monsters. Because they are not.

Yes, no one was directly hung from a tree as a result of the Tea party. granted, everytime there has been a shooting, especially a racially motivated one (like tray martin) they have been apolgiosts and enablers. Yes, they have called for the killing of liberals, openly advocated crimes ranging from tax cheating to "second amendment remedies." and it is funny how many lone wolf gunmen types seem to be influenced by them, but you are right, they have not lynched anyone we know of.

Of course, the fact that the KKK did do open crimes is what forced even a diehard commie hater like Jeb Hoover to crack down on them. Now, they just supress votes in secret, and wrap their demands in smooth propaganda. Nevermind the fact that, by cutting medical care, food stamps, other social services and advocating wars, they may very well have killed more Americans than the KKK ever did, to say nothing of foriegners, something the KKK did not get to do.

Yes, I understand you want to be logi.cal, sane, clam, and yes, most of the time, that is good, but even the most self-defense oriented martial artist knows that you cannot always dodge combat, especially when the opponent does not care about reason. Add to this the massive funding by Billionaires, that thanks to the Supreme court, we are not even allowed to count.

I am NOT saying we all need to be a Ted Rall or Alan Grayson. What I am saying is that we need ALL TYPES, those who can offer to sit down and talk at a table, and those who, when they see the GOP is pulling a gun out of the pocket, will tackle the SOB. Part of the reason we are in our mess is, for all of their foolishness, the GOP realized they needed many types of people, with many types of methods, from the clear voiced genteel types to the wild fringe. We on the left have fallen too much in love with a self image that says "we are above that." Once the enemy realizes you are stuck in a rigid method, they do what we did to the british redcoats; watch for their patterns and blast them apart. We have been the rigid army that may have resoruces, but refused to deal with guerilla warfare, which a lot of tea party action is.

Avtion, this is not meant as disrespect. I am just very tired of seeing my comrades get blasted apart because they insist that their sharp knife will beat the GOP snipers.

And let's remember - they speak in dog whistles.

the only people offended by this are tea baggers who probably are racist anyhow. screw them.

I really expected more out of the people here. Grayson, not so much, as he's done underhanded things in the past.

Its time to level the playing Field, thats what "inquiring minds" like your average MSM headline wants. Why do you think the right always gets face time in the MSM. Your average idiot only knows toxic sound bites, thats what they pay attention to. Its time to play the game by their rules.

Inside The Meeting Where Obama And Reid Vowed Not To Be 'Taken In By These Crazy People'
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101676776

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=acSPCEHejGY

You have to go after bullies full force not this playing nice bullshit that the democrats have a habit of doing.Grayson is 110% right on

The comparisons to cats is ridiculous. Mine would tear out your throat. The comparison of the teabaggers to the kkk is also ridiculous. They're not calling for segregation, they are not lynching people. Many are racist but that's not the same as the kkk. If you think people will hear and condone this message, you're wrong. It'll fire up the left, piss off the right (who would never vote for a Democrat anyway) and the middle (who decide elections) will roll their eyes and say "both sides are the same". That is not helpful.

"It'll fire up the left, piss off the right (who would never vote for a Democrat anyway) and the middle (who decide elections) (italics mine) will roll their eyes and say "both sides are the same". That is not helpful."

And with all due respect, THIS is exactly the atittude that got us here. Before Obama, I would have called myself a centrist, but my defintion was the ones that could tell both the Che Guevaras and Ayn Rands to go to hell, because both of them wanted to use dead children to build their utopias. However, thanks to Clinton, the Center is no a term for "we like the right, but do not want to be as nasty as the right, although we have every intention of keeping our privilege intact." Fear of that Center that decides elections made the Clintons and Obamas soften their edge, never mind that the right wing would still kill them if they had the chance, and that talk radio would do a grave dance.

As it turns out, a lot of the votes that happened in 2010 were indeed, that coveted, obetyed, courted center, what happened, the center became mushy, and mushy people tend to obey strong people that shout. You may need the center to get into the Oval office, but it is the base that lets you work; Bush learned that when he made his right wing loons shut up, and let people buy that whole "compassionate conservative" nonsense. Of course, once he got in, he not only turned right, be literallyw elded the wheel rightward.

So, while we do not all need to be tea party types, we need to realize that comprising ourselves to woo that center can be a fool's errand, for even if we court them, woo them, help them, they, like many an abused spouse, will hear those dog whistles and scamper back to their home.

helpful. I'm not saying at all that we need to compromise our belief system in the slightest but that's not what I'm talking about here. I think the problem in 2010 was not that the liberals stayed home - it's that the centrists stayed home. Right now they're hearing "Obama is like Hitler" from the right and "The Tea Party are like the KKK" - hearing both of those over the top descriptions make them (centrists) tune everyone out. They're not interested in left vs right. They want a government that works for them (not against them). And they're the largest constituency out there.

you have to understand it. Most americans want old usa to come back. For now.

They haven't digested Dick Cheney's words in 2001: "it will never be the same again". And the confirmation signed upon by the 8 years of bush, and now the 8 years of obama. It will never be the same. The old usa is dead. it will not come back to life.

The choice is to prepare and fight for a new usa or to waste your breath trying to revive a dead corpse.

Is that clear enought?

As your words were nto at all linked with the conext of the OP, namely, is Alan grayson wrong or right for his words.

Are you saying to be polite is to try and rvive the old USA corpse, in which case, rather than attack me, you might agree with me. If not, kindly explain, as I think your message did not come out.

They are rabid animals and should be treated as such.

what the teabaggers think or feel. If our party wants to attract the independents - those who actually decide elections - why give them a reason to state "both parties suck and are the same". This nonsense feeds into that narrative.

Hannibal Lector.

he's got nothing to lose. They are predominantly progressive there.

just as cruz's 70% approval rating in TX is fine for him. Both hurt their parties. If you think this crap is what independents want to hear, have at it.

I am glad to see that my little contribution has been well-spent!

subarashii desuyo!

Tonbi (or Tobi) ga taka wo umu.

Ikuzo!

that's why you're my fav congress critter.

But the M$M is going to use this as evidence that "both sides do it" and that Dems are "just as bad" as Repigs.

And bullies generally only hit those who don't hiy back

Teabaggers can't spell learn.

I just had to post the picture.

Oh, but its fine since he's on our side? No, its not fine. And this isn't the first time Grayson has done shit like this.
So I guess all of you are now OK with torture too? I mean, the terrorists do it so its ok for us to do it too, right?

We're supposed to take the high road. Be better than them. The gop is destroying itself from within without ridiculous nonsense like this.

Who is going to complain and what credibility do they have?

As I said before, they're eating their own. This serves no purpose. It will end up on all THEIR fundraising stuff and talk shows; validating (to them) what they've been saying about democrats. "See, we told you how hateful they were".
But I have no doubt that the cheerleading here will continue.

Just as the GOP should have known that they would take the hit for the shutdown, we should know this is detrimental.
They will have it on every talk show "Look at them race baiting!!" So they'll tell all their supporters they need to send money to fight these low down tactics, etc.
Our parents always taught us to be above the other side. Dont lower yourself.

My bet is THEY never mention it...at ALL!

Not a campaign ad per se, but they wasted no time putting it up there for all their followers to see. So they're definitely not hiding from it. Which was my point. It gives them something to point at and say "See, look how hateful "they" are!"

and torture ain't right. That's why WE are against it.

Why are YOU against Grayson telling the truth?

WWII Monument closings when it was the republicans who shut down the government?

No manpower to watch over an open air memorial but manpower to watch over blocking access to an openly accessible memorial.
I'm sure the President wasnt the one making those decisions.
So I am consistent. I'll call "foul" when I think something is petty or downright wrong, regardless of who is doing it. Maybe you could read my posts on Ted Cruz, Todd Akin, Palin, Cheney, Bush, Pat Robertson,etc etc.

How is it you wouldn't know that?

He has been enormously supported, and deeply appreciated from the very first.

Attacking him here's so stupid!

Doesnt matter what he does, as long as he's doing it for us! Yay team!

One, we could make nice. But that would mean the right would step our faces in the mud.

Or two, we stand by principle, and fight and win by every means. If it is called "Us vs. Them", then so be it. It's inevitable anyway.

Being right and being smart are all well and good, and Grayson is both of those things.

But how he presents himself matters.

When he can't edit himself enough to avoid this kind of inflammatory crap, he looks as stupid as the people he's picking on.

Smart people with a good argument will always find a way to make their point without resorting to this kind of tactic.

Thank you. Nice to know SOMEBODY understands what I was trying to get across.
It seems many here feel that if you don't like green beans, then you obviously hate farmers.

They would have us in death camps if they could.

Think about it: If, as you say, they're not smart, why do we need to look "not smart" to debunk their points?

It's easier to debunk their points if you look smarter than they are.

your arguments were correct. They simply enjoyed beating you to death.

There is a 24/7 drumbeat of hate coming out of the RW noise machine.

Facts do not matter to them.

The 30% or so that are never going to agree with progressive ideas are NOT the only people listening.

There's a whole "purple" population that DOES cringe when either side resorts to these kind of tactics. There ARE people within THAT group that we CAN convince.

And the RW noise machine will only use Grayson's remarks as a fund-raising tool.

RW drumbeat our side gets drowned out by playing nice. I also feel that your position has merit. Although with the RW echo box in play, it would get again, drowned.

There's an argument to be made that some "purple" people are "purple" because they're not really paying attention--that the only way either side can get any notice in the press is to cause a rabble with the fringe (on both sides of the aisle).

I do think though, that there are people in the middle who are not so much ill-informed or apathetic, but truly moderate. And there's a case to be made for making reasonable arguments to that group instead of turning them off with inflammatory rhetoric.

I've also never been a fan of anyone, who (in any circumstance) does something JUST to anger anyone else. (Whenever I hear someone say "I did it just to piss him (her) off" I question that person's integrity.

Why use one word (abbreviation) where 100 will suffice!

.

"CONG = SLAVE OWNER//TAXPAYER = NIGGAR"???

I've never seen that disgusting word spelled that way before.

Smears and slurs for years and direct attacks on minorities while upholding the virtue of white Christian women and now all of a sudden it's not nice or fair. Those poor widdle babies.

What do you think is the big difference between the two groups?

Their goals? Nope, they seem to share several.

Their methods? Nope, they are both violent and abusive toward their perceived enemies.

Their sponsors? Nope, some of the same rich ultra Conservatives appear to support both.

Their membership? It's not possible to establish a shared membership with any certainty, but such is clearly implied by the Tea Partiers' overtly racist rhetoric.

that's right folks, you read it here.

"I mean, the terrorists do it so its ok for us to do it too, right?"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=628531

You love it, fine. Go with that. You have a lot of company. I was taught not to lower myself to their level.
I am NOT defending the tea party. I am offended by the low-brow tactics Grayson uses. I think a lot of it is just to get the attention he knows will come. The OTHER side does this crap. Let them.

I think Grayson is a good guy, but he does have a tendency to go way over the top. The other side has enough people to do that. Jews get upset (and rightly so) when various groups are compared to Nazis when nothing could be farther from the truth.

"The other side has enough people to do that". Exactly the point I was making. We are above that. But you'd think I'd threatened the President or something. Read the responses I've been getting. Pretty soon I'll be accused of belonging to Westboro Baptist!!

taking the high road has been met with continuous gut punches. taking the high road is why this country is in the shitter. taking the high road may have worked 40 or 50 years ago, but now it's time to put the boot to the neck of these batshit crazy assholes and never let up.

And nothing else.

Save the sermonizing...

The hell with that. Being reasonable does not work with them as they are utterly devoid of any reason or critical thinking skills. And this is exactly ONE TIME a Dem has gone somewhat Tarantino on the tea baggers. They do it twelve times a day everyday and that's just before lunchtime. Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke.

Why don't you tell us how Raphael Cruz is just misunderstood.

Not misunderstood, just an idiot.

He won because people voted for him and he will win again because people voted for him. He's not an idiot - he knows precisely what he needs to say and do to win.

Mr. Grayson won his seat back because he knew what he had to say to win. He knows his district better than I do - he's got to play to them. Not you and certainly not me in the NJ 7th.

That said - the person who I think will go up against Leonard Lance (one of the flip flopping Rs during te shutdown) - is possibly going to pay up how Lance played to TEAS outside of NJ instead on the citizens of two of the top ten wealthiest counties in America. Both are in his district - and the only screaming on his FB page cam from people screaming that Obama was a Muslim Tyrant Dictator from places like TX and GA. The ones trying to reason with him about the financial impact to their portfolios and businesses were his constituents.

And every bigoted screaming meemie "whine" written that stood on his page has been copied, pasted, and is ready for upload to the Internet.

What you permit - you promote.

And he is not the only Republican to permit this nonsense.

Grayson might very well force a full blown third TEA Party run if his opponent has to run from it.

Fact: Teabaggres are extremely racist, homophobic, xenophobic, anti-choice white club.
Fact: All of the above makes them undistinguishable from KKK .

BTW, what the hell does it have to do with the issue of support/condemnation of torture?

You should be ashamed of your post.

I simply have the opinion that we should be above using these types of ads. Thats it. No defense of the tea party or any of THEIR tactics. I cant stand them. But let them eat their own, which is whats happening now. The whole torture comparison is simple. Many responses to my simple distaste for these types of ads has been "Screw em. they do stuff like this all the time." Well, the enemy tortures all the time, so screw 'em, we can do it too. The gop uses ads like this, so we can too.
I'm surprised at the vitriol put out by some here. This is supposed to be a site of people who are tolerant. I'm supposed to march lockstep with everyone else? Some others also posted that this was a bad idea.
And the tea pups are already using this ad to rouse their mob, just as I predicted.

white man club.

fact: All of the above applies to KKK

Conclusion: Teabaggers and KKK are indistinguishable from each other.
Alan Grayson is right!

You posted your opinion, I posted mine. Deal with it.

Now, what is it I am suppose to be "tolerable" to? False equivalence bullshit? Your inability to take criticism? Red herring BS presented in your post, e.a. torture? Anything else?

You just dont seem to be able to comprehend the fact that I'm not defending the tee party.

Sorry, buddy, from here it looks precisely like you are defending teaparty AND shitting as much as you could possibly get away with on Mr Grayson.

BTW, using "lurkers support me in email" defence of one's position is childish and laughable.

I merely referred you to a comment from someone else who feels the same way i do. You're going off the deep end by making such a HUGE deal out of a simple opinion on his tactics.
Criticizing a tactic is hardly defending the tea party idiots. I point out ONE thing and you call that "shitting as much as you can possibly get away with"? Good lord, get a grip.
Like I said in that post, saying i dont like green beans doesnt mean i hate farmers.

We're supposed to be "better" than them - because we let them beat us up?

I'm not into being a martyr, and that isn't what I want from the folks in Washington.

I want them to do their JOBS and get policies passed that benefit this country and not just the 1% who donate to make them rich.

When it comes to FEEDING LITTLE CHILDREN, TAKING CARE OF SICK PEOPLE, PROTECTING OUR ENVIRONMENT --

It isn't how "nice" you are that matters - it is what you GET DONE.

My opinion. Your mileage may vary.

He would put his boot heel to the throat of the Republicans without even a hint of remorse.

We need a hundred more just like him.

He is also absolutely correct: Tea Party = KKK.

I have no doubt that if there was a way to check the membership rolls one would find that 99% of the KKK are also Tea Party activists.

Grayson for the United States Senate!

I tweeted a message to Congressman Grayson thanking him and posted this story on twitter.

Truth can oftentimes be very uncomfortable, so a person who sticks with it, in spite of controversy is more valuable than anything mined from the earth.

But I agree with posters downstream that it isn't very statesman like, but maybe it's going to take calling the tea party out for what they are to open people's eyes.

Alan Grayson is my favorite Congressman....(I love Elizabeth Warren too)

He "calls 'em like he sees 'em".....and he "shoots from the hip" ....My kind of politician



Rep. Alan Grayson To Congress: "We Are Less Popular Than Dog Poop" (VIDEO)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/09/alan-grayson-dog-poop_n_4073387.html/

It's pretty obvious to me that clothing selection may be the biggest difference to me.

and tho I don't usually engage these friends re: politics unless I know we agree, I did. No awful fireworks from her, happily.

aka the Kelly files on Cluster Faux. Their claim was Alan is in trouble with the DNC and other dems are telling him to return any $$ from the fundraising.

Then they had that asshat Alan West on.

If he condems racism, why is he in the friggin tea party?

(long time lurker first time poster)

While the tea party is clearly funded by the kochtopus there is ample evidence to suggest that neo-nazi/kkk organizations have taken an interest in the tea party. Do your research. I would say the better analysis would be the the neo-nazi/kkk organizations are more interested and tied to the Libertarian wing of the Republican party. Too scary
The tea party is more the party of the American Oligarchs, John Birch society. Who's main goal is privatization (TSA, etc) more Mussolini than Nazi.

but ya its time to not be so nice and what not they're a bunch of bully nut jobs,(tea party) with they're common debasement, haha i guess hes just speaking they're language

Also, like the Klan, he has disproportionate popularity in Democratic populations.

But if you read up on Klan history, especially after the resurgence, they attracted members by touting God, country, family and even 'a return to the Constitution', similar to what the Tea Party expounds. The racism the KKK is noted for overlaid these acceptable tenets, or maybe was inherent in the people who were attracted to membership in the Klan. In the 1920's, the Klan had about 5 million members and even ran some political candidates. Stephenson, the Grand Dragon of Indiana kidnapped and raped a woman, who died. It was a sensational trial at the time, and he was sentenced to life in prison. That crime spelled the end of the KKK in that era.

Jesus said, "The poor in spirit are always with us."

Seriously, there is a correlation. The KKK in their hayday were able to get away with a lot more than the Teahadists would like to get be able away with now, but can't.

I have long thought the are the KKK 2.0. "KKK Next Generation", if you like. Direct literal comparisons of their activities are a weaksauce argument and sound like apologetics beecause these bigoted "socialist" hating fuckwads - and their tooled up and well connected brainwashers - have moved with the times. It's not about *what* they do, it's *why* they do what they are doing. Underlying it all is the same brand of bigotry, ignorance and seething hatred that binds them together.