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dipsydoodle

(42,239 posts)
Fri Nov 8, 2013, 10:16 AM Nov 2013

UK - Marine guilty of Afghanistan murder.

Source: BBC News

A Royal Marine has been found guilty by a military court of murdering an injured Afghan insurgent in 2011.

Two other marines were acquitted at the Military Court Centre in Wiltshire.

The three - Marines A, B and C - had denied murdering the unknown man while on patrol in Helmand province in 2011.

Marine A was convicted after the prosecution said he had shot the man at close range, in what was effectively an execution. He faces a mandatory life sentence and was taken into custody.

Read more: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24870699

30 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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UK - Marine guilty of Afghanistan murder. (Original Post) dipsydoodle Nov 2013 OP
Huh? Gary 50 Nov 2013 #1
Why should we fight using one set of rules while the other guys use another? MyNameGoesHere Nov 2013 #2
My broken moral compass... Gary 50 Nov 2013 #6
You are right you have never been a soldier MyNameGoesHere Nov 2013 #7
Thanks Gary 50 Nov 2013 #10
Well MyNameGoesHere Nov 2013 #11
So you,ve... Gary 50 Nov 2013 #12
Well on the MyNameGoesHere Nov 2013 #13
Check back and see.. Gary 50 Nov 2013 #15
And on you go with the above the fray MyNameGoesHere Nov 2013 #16
Oh, the pain... Gary 50 Nov 2013 #17
What is that about the third loser you've thrown out there MyNameGoesHere Nov 2013 #18
You've heard that senility.... Gary 50 Nov 2013 #22
Yes MyNameGoesHere Nov 2013 #23
And you.. Gary 50 Nov 2013 #24
Welcome to DU. AnotherMcIntosh Nov 2013 #26
Grow up, you two. Comrade Grumpy Nov 2013 #30
Soldiers are supposed to follow orders, are they not? ehrnst Nov 2013 #29
Geneva Convention - if we don't want US POWs executed, we don't murder POWs. ehrnst Nov 2013 #3
Though, christx30 Nov 2013 #8
Never said that your moral compass is broken. ehrnst Nov 2013 #27
That's a fact. Aristus Nov 2013 #14
Although it was UK Marines, we have a professional military now as well. ehrnst Nov 2013 #28
If the insurgant iamthebandfanman Nov 2013 #4
Agreed Dopers_Greed Nov 2013 #5
That you don't get it sarisataka Nov 2013 #9
"I just broke the Geneva convention" Ash_F Nov 2013 #19
So the British don't release the person's names? davidpdx Nov 2013 #20
So the Geneva Convention still exists. JoeyT Nov 2013 #21
War IS the crime bluedeathray Nov 2013 #25

Gary 50

(382 posts)
1. Huh?
Fri Nov 8, 2013, 10:37 AM
Nov 2013

I don't get it. I know there are "rules" in war and don't doubt the Marine broke one. If he had killed an innocent bystander then I would say lock him up and throw away the key. But a wounded insurgent? The insurgent would have gladly killed the marine in a similar situation and got nothing but praise from his comrades. Why should we fight using one set of rules while the other guys use another? If you see your friends getting blown to pieces by the enemy, why should you refrain from killing them when you have the chance? If every soldier who did the same thing in WWII was put in prison for life there wouldn't have been any place to put the criminals. Maybe a dishonorable discharge as reasonable punishment but life in prison? Absolutely ridiculous.

 

MyNameGoesHere

(7,638 posts)
2. Why should we fight using one set of rules while the other guys use another?
Fri Nov 8, 2013, 10:47 AM
Nov 2013

Because we are the good guys. To even ask a question like that is proof that your moral compass is broken.

Gary 50

(382 posts)
6. My broken moral compass...
Fri Nov 8, 2013, 02:07 PM
Nov 2013

I've never been a soldier, thank God, but if I was one and I had seen my brothers slaughtered I don't think I would have any problems with my conscience if I killed someone who would surely kill me if he had a chance. I am not saying it's right, I'm saying it is a natural feeling to have. I can see circumstances, say in WWII, where if I captured a German soldier killing him would never even enter my mind, because he was just a victim of circumstances. But in Iraq there were no jihadists who were forced to fight (that I know of). They chose to fight and they followed no rules, except to kill as many of us as possible by any means possible. In that situation, if I had been traumatized by what I had seen and experienced, as I probably would have been, then killing the guy is what I would have done too. Maybe I don't have your moral purity but I have no problem with what he did. Should he be punished? Perhaps. But life in prison? That's ridiculous.

 

MyNameGoesHere

(7,638 posts)
7. You are right you have never been a soldier
Fri Nov 8, 2013, 02:34 PM
Nov 2013

and I am proud that soldiers discount the deluded opinions of civilians. These people are murderers plain and simple. Courts all over the world have held that opinion. And frankly, I value the "chickenhawk" opinion of a keyboard strategist as much as I do the fluff in my belly button.

Gary 50

(382 posts)
10. Thanks
Fri Nov 8, 2013, 05:28 PM
Nov 2013

Thanks for your kind words. I realize in your eyes I have no right to an opinion because I am a "Chickenhawk." Well you can stuff your opinion where the sun don't shine. A chickenhawk is someone who sends other people to their deaths but who wouldn't fight themselves, not someone who happened to never have been in the military. My sympathies lie with our troops and not those who slaughter them. I didn't say what he did was right. I said it was understandable. I also said life in prison for executing a wounded enemy is excessive. And finally, I do not give a crap what you think either.

Gary 50

(382 posts)
12. So you,ve...
Fri Nov 8, 2013, 06:50 PM
Nov 2013

run out of bile? Then I will let you and your smug sense of moral superiority alone. You love dishing out ad hominem attacks but finally have nothing to say. Next time, state your opinion or difference of opinion and don't get nasty. You will live longer and happier. Good bye.

 

MyNameGoesHere

(7,638 posts)
13. Well on the
Fri Nov 8, 2013, 07:01 PM
Nov 2013

Nutjobia bile and nastiness scale, you were at an j-5 (jerk 5) level and I was about a j-2 level. SO you win.

Gary 50

(382 posts)
15. Check back and see..
Fri Nov 8, 2013, 09:13 PM
Nov 2013

who got nasty. And, in this instance, you're much to modest. Attack me and I will hand you your head (figuratively). Now get lost loser.

 

MyNameGoesHere

(7,638 posts)
16. And on you go with the above the fray
Fri Nov 8, 2013, 09:21 PM
Nov 2013

attitude whilst flinging more dung. Perhaps a monkey suit instead of a chicken suit?

 

MyNameGoesHere

(7,638 posts)
18. What is that about the third loser you've thrown out there
Fri Nov 8, 2013, 11:59 PM
Nov 2013

yet I am the one with the biting comments? Gary 50. Well I have heard senility starts at 50.

Gary 50

(382 posts)
22. You've heard that senility....
Sat Nov 9, 2013, 09:09 AM
Nov 2013

starts at 50. A little advice, don't listen to the voices in your head. They have meds for that.

 

MyNameGoesHere

(7,638 posts)
23. Yes
Sat Nov 9, 2013, 10:29 AM
Nov 2013

I will. Now can we get back to the point? You are in favor of mob rule and street executions. You imagine yourself in a firefight and only you can avenge the death of your buddy who died in your arms. So your dream induced fireflight you decide to execute every insurgent you dream about. Is that about right?

Although you have never been in any situation close to that, you have good war movies and mythological warrior code bullshit that dictates you would become a ruthless killing machine to avenge your buddies death.

You sir are a coward. A cheap hero worshipping, Rambo idolizing coward.

Now good day to you

Gary 50

(382 posts)
24. And you..
Sat Nov 9, 2013, 10:49 AM
Nov 2013

sir are a horses ass who gets his jollies belittling others because it makes you feel like a man. You know nothing about me except the fantasies the voices in your head create. Get help. I'm sure you get away with bullying others but every once in a while you will run into someone like me who will make you look like the obnoxious moron you are. Adios, loser.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
29. Soldiers are supposed to follow orders, are they not?
Tue Nov 12, 2013, 09:24 AM
Nov 2013

Among those orders are when an enemy combatant is injured, and no longer fighting, you are to take him into custody and render medical aid.

Those soldiers defied orders, on video. Knowingly.

Soldiers who disobey orders pay the price - as per a military court that they agreed to when they enlisted.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
3. Geneva Convention - if we don't want US POWs executed, we don't murder POWs.
Fri Nov 8, 2013, 11:38 AM
Nov 2013

These are rules everybody needs to go by, in order to protect everyone. You do NOT execute a wounded combatant, you take them into custody and give them medical attention.

As a matter of fact, if an enemy pilot parachutes from a plane that has been fired on, he is assumed to be injured, and cannot be shot in mid air, nor can he be shot while retrieving him.

This clearly was not simply a case of combat, if the Marine was convicted of the execution of someone in their custody.







christx30

(6,241 posts)
8. Though,
Fri Nov 8, 2013, 04:13 PM
Nov 2013

we have seen insurgents fake being wounded in order to kill a US soldier. And we saw US soldiers captured and beheaded by insurgents in the early days of the Iraq war. No quibbling about the Geneva Convention from them. We know they would not hesitate to kill a wounded US soldier.
My moral compass isn't broken. Nor is my sense of self preservation.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
27. Never said that your moral compass is broken.
Tue Nov 12, 2013, 09:16 AM
Nov 2013

Just because someone else might break the law is no excuse to break a law.

Did you read the article? There is a recording of a soldier saying, "Anyone want to give this idiot first aid?" and people said "No."

There was no self preservation there - there was a wounded combatant who was cornered.

They were required by law to give him first aid and to take him into custody. And they executed him.

They broke the law, and paid the price.

We should also remember in this talk about American soldiers - this was a UK Marine who was convicted.


Aristus

(66,446 posts)
14. That's a fact.
Fri Nov 8, 2013, 07:06 PM
Nov 2013

And in times gone by, it has been an incentive for opponents to surrender rather than fight to the death.

There was a time when the general attitude was "Surrender to the Americans. They're decent; they'll treat you well."

Those days are gone; maybe forever.

In a strange turn of events, September 11th turned us into terrorists. Terrorists who deny being terrorists, because "it's all right when we do it; it's just wrong if someone else does it."

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
28. Although it was UK Marines, we have a professional military now as well.
Tue Nov 12, 2013, 09:18 AM
Nov 2013

Not a citizen army. That is truly a self selecting group of people who have a specific mindset.

iamthebandfanman

(8,127 posts)
4. If the insurgant
Fri Nov 8, 2013, 11:49 AM
Nov 2013

surrendered or gave up...

what he did was murder. theres no question about that.

id expect it to be called that if it were in reverse as well.

the Japanese and Nazis treated prisoners terribly...
hence why there was another Geneva convention after WW2.

Dopers_Greed

(2,640 posts)
5. Agreed
Fri Nov 8, 2013, 12:20 PM
Nov 2013

We should be going after the soldiers that murder civilians (which there a lot of unfortunately). Prosecutions like this will only serve as stories to rally the Theocons.

sarisataka

(18,755 posts)
9. That you don't get it
Fri Nov 8, 2013, 04:57 PM
Nov 2013

Makes me worry for you. A person with morals will do what is right whether the enemy does so or not.

Ash_F

(5,861 posts)
19. "I just broke the Geneva convention"
Sat Nov 9, 2013, 06:59 AM
Nov 2013

He said it himself, right on camera.

Maybe you should lobby to have the Geneva convention overturned?

JoeyT

(6,785 posts)
21. So the Geneva Convention still exists.
Sat Nov 9, 2013, 08:45 AM
Nov 2013

It just happens to be means tested now.

"Sorry son, your bank account is less than a thousandth what it needs to be to escape prosecution for war crimes."

bluedeathray

(511 posts)
25. War IS the crime
Sat Nov 9, 2013, 12:04 PM
Nov 2013

All included activities are contingency and convenience.

The barbaric prosecuting the mad...

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