That's a step too far, imo. Go ahead and test the medical pros/cons or neutrality of these products, and their affects on others. But if we're just saying "we don't like the look of someone putting something in their mouth" (as opposed to wearing a patch or chewing gum), then it's wrong.

Because then we could have ordinances that ban other forms of "social acceptability."

Same with the outdoor smoking bans.

The original excuse for banning smoking in bars, restaurants and all other businesses where it all started was because of the workers being forced to inhale second hand smoke that they conjured up data that said it was just as cancer causing as actual smoking is. They don't care about the same or worse inhaled pollutants emitted from cars or buildings - just smoke emitting tobacco.

It looks the same, so it must be the same... Just like hydrochloric acid and water!

Your personal crusade is all about how it looks to the neighbors, and has nothing to do with public health ...

disgusting ...

this annoys me! If the government is going to step in, it seems they should be encouraging the use of this product. I would still be on the tar and other crap of regular cigs if not for the ecig.
I realize I am biased, but I know what the ecig did for me, my husband and several other people I personally know. Being addicted to nicotine is not different than being addicted to caffeine.
I have loads to say on this, but I am not liking the attitude low level gov't is taking so far.
I have issues with people wearing perfume but I don't try to advocate banning it in any way.
I have a sneaking suspicion that big pharma is behind this. They want people taking the pills. patch or gum and not the ecig.
I also would like to see more study so that these officials can't go off making rules without some science behind it.

Big tobacco is scared shitless of e-cigs.

Don't know why they can't just get on the bandwagon. They can still make big bucks! They are going to lose money because less and less people are taking up the nicotine habit!

They cannot make money on them with the business model they are using. The BT companies that are making PVs, make them in the form of a mini-cigarette. They are expensive, disposable, devices that need to be re-charged constantly and their consumables cannot be replenished by the user. Most PV users start with these devices but quickly move on to advanced personal vaporizers or mods. These are much larger and look nothing like a cigarette. They are not disposable. They use larger batteries, larger liquid reservoirs and are able to be re-filled and serviced by the end-user. Once you move on to an APV or mod, the only thing you need to purchase on a regular basis is e-liquid. I spend about $50/mo. on e-liquid as compared to $375/mo. for a pack-and-a-half a day cigarette habit. Now here's the real kicker. Most everything one needs to make their own e-liquid is available at the drug-store and super market. One of the main components in e-liquid is Vegetable Glycerin. VG is used as a skin conditioner and is sold in drug stores. VG can be vaporized by itself or nicotine and/or propylene glycol can be added to it. In that form it is carries a slightly sweet taste and the vapor produced from it is basically odorless. If you want flavors, you just pick up some of your favorites by LorAnn at the super market. At that point we're talking about, maybe, $25/mo. BT cannot compete with that. So, what they do is covertly lobby for regulation of e-cigarettes. Regulations that small vendors, who are the vast majority of the industry, cannot comply with. They leaves BT to stand alone with their overpriced garbage. Said garbage will fail as a business and BT will stop selling it. Leaving... cigarettes...

You can buy small cigarette-looking vaporizers. I have a pink and black one, very chic. The batteries cost $10 and can be recharged. The filters, or the cartridges that hold the juice, can be refilled. I spend about $20/month on average.

rechargeable mini's and blank cartomizers but they are a hassle after a time. I go though about 75ml a month at .50/ml so, for me it's about $38/mo for my evey-day juice. Occasionally I spend $10 on a new flavor to test. I rebuild my own atomizer coils at a marginal cost. My vendors are all local B&Ms but they have some of the best juices available and competitive hardware pricing.

http://www.mister-e-liquid.com/
http://kalamazoovaporshop.com/home.php

"Most PV users start with these devices but quickly move on to advanced personal vaporizers or mods. These are much larger and look nothing like a cigarette. They are not disposable. They use larger batteries, larger liquid reservoirs and are able to be re-filled and serviced by the end-user. Once you move on to an APV or mod, the only thing you need to purchase on a regular basis is e-liquid. I spend about $50/mo. on e-liquid as compared to $375/mo. for a pack-and-a-half a day cigarette habit."


Quite accurate.

Cigarettes "work" when you light one, every time you light one.

Cig-alike vapes don't.

Mods/advanced APVs work every time, and often last for days without needing any refilling or recharging.

They best replicate the "fire it and forget it" aspect of a traditional cigarette.

The funniest part of it though, is that while this should be obvious "on paper", only those of us that go through the progression of switching from analogue cigs to vapes seem to be able to understand it.

Both my wife and I vape and we started off with green smoke. I've moved on to tank systems but her, being legally blind, isn't comfortable with the other types and wants to stick with what she knows. She's a light puffer and thinks the more advanced systems have too strong of a taste so that's another factor.

It lasted about two months after my initial introduction to the e-cig and then disappeared. So did my coughing, irregular heartbeat, most of my reflux, and the doctor's lectures.

All gone and not missed.

There ARE vapor studies and the air is completely, utterly breathable. Apparently NYC officials are simply incapable of research and/or reading.

I tried everything short of hypnotism to help me quit. First up was the patch. Then gum, then Wellbutrin, then inhalers and finally Chantix. None of it worked. Just for the hell of it, I tried a disposable e-cig from a gas station. I ordered and rechargeable kit by the end of that day and never looked back. That was almost four years ago.

Smoked for fifty years. Vaped for two until I got bored with carrying around the paraphernalia, now free of it all.

It is the tobacco companies, I'm certain. I never had nicotine withdrawal from the ecigs even though I used the higher octane ones, so I'm quite certain that there is something added to cigarettes to enhance the addictive properties.

in my mouth and inhale some H20 vapor? Fuck them, that's too far.

Next they'll be telling us what we can or can't wear.

And I'm not talking about NYC. "Vapor+Nicotine = Airborne Drug"= total bullshit. Produce the data that proves this or keep your conjecture to yourself. I've posted my data in several of your other crusade threads. Where's yours?

What comes out is odorless and invisible, so obviously it's harmless.

Everyone is smiling and perfectly happy with my 'habit.'

by the smoke rising off your hot coffee. I can see it, so it must be carcinogenic. I can certainly smell it, so it must be carcinogenic.

If Starbucks wants to ban personal vaporizers at their establishments, that's fine and you won't see me in one. If they don't that's fine too and you can go find another establishment to rage against the machine at. But, Big Mommy should keep her nose out of it.

Nicotine e cigs just let out water vapor. There is no significant second hand smoke issue.

If the science says straight nicotine is addictive and bad for the body then limit sales to the same age for alcohol. Liquor can be addictive and bad for the body. It's a free county no?

My issue is that there is no science yet so it's worse than, say, banning tanning salons.

The water vapor it picks up would have been there anyway on an exhale; you exhale nearly 100% saturated air.

The e-cig is propylene glycol and/or vegetable glycerine, with or without nicotine. PG/VG are also the components in a fog machine, and cleared for continuous exposure by the FDA.

On exhale, most of the PG is gone as it's easily absorbed. Vegetable glycerine is the primary remaining component. If memory serves, they didn't find any nicotine, either.

There is no airborne drug. The nicotine is absorbed by your system, what is exhaled is nothing more than VG, which dissipates into the air within seconds. There's no lingering anything, no smoke, no drug, no carcinogens. I know you'd like to control aspects of people's lives, but try leaving that tactic to the Republicans.

Who's the Republican here?

Kind of like the arbitrary and capricious regulations we see republicans trying to push all the time on things like...abortion...and MJ...for example.

But you knew that.

City & state governments talk a good game about being concerned about your health but they sure loves them the high taxes they collect from cigarette sales that e-cigs don't bring in.

I've been saying all along how much tax revenue is lost to the state's. One bottle of juice last me over a month, the tax on that bottle run's a little over $2.00.

fucking hogwash.

.... with the "temperance" crowd. They don't want you to smoke, they don't want you to have any access to nicotine whatsoever, they don't want you to drink a large soda.

Fuck a bunch of assholes that think they have the right to tell everyone what to do.

How the fuck do you get nitrosamines from the exhaled vapor produced by heating up and inhaling vegetable glycerine, propylene glycol, nicotine, and water? I thought you needed amino acids (such as are found in tobacco) for that.

Maybe one of you organic chemists can explain it to me. Until then, I'm calling bullshit on the "federal analysis".

Curious - do you live in North Carolina, Kentucky, or Virginia?

"OMG it looks like a cig and they are blowing something out of their mouths, it must be smoke and it must be bad for you!!"

Last edited Fri Dec 6, 2013, 03:31 PM - Edit history (1)