No more "grand bargains" with the Repukes. Please!!!

we once again lower corporate tax rates. That worked out well with the wars.

I wonder how much the taxpayers will owe GE next year since they pay nothing now and they're getting another reduction.

Tax cuts pay for themselves. Only idiots think otherwise. The only programs that have to be paid for in full (and sometimes to overflowing, like the post office pension program) are programs that provide direct benefits to peasants. Those programs create something called a "moral hazard" which means that some Wall Street billionaire shithead isn't getting a direct cut and can't figure an angle to get a direct cut. Other programs, like building bombs, bombers, bomber carrying ships, rocket launched bombers, and drone bombers that can be safely controlled from third world call centers, don't have a moral hazard associated with them.

Thanks for the education.

I know you can't rec replies, but this is a theoretical DU rec.

"Tax cuts pay for themselves."

Let Obama have the "reduce the corporate tax rate" talking point and get some spending out of the GOP to get people back to work.

“Some U.S. multinational corporations like to complain about the U.S. 35 percent statutory tax rate, but what they don’t like to admit is that hardly any of them pay anything close to it,” Mr. Levin said in a statement. “The big gap between the U.S. statutory tax rate and what large, profitable U.S. corporations actually pay is due in large part to the unjustified loopholes and gimmicks that riddle our tax code.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/02/business/big-companies-paid-a-fraction-of-corporate-tax-rate.html?_r=0

negligible amount and used just for PR purposes.

Effective at enriching the 1%, that is.

It calls for a popular infrastructure investment that the GOP opposes.

The GOP will say no because of the spending. The President can then say see you can't work with these people.

for when he sea you can't work with these people. He's just too nice.

The WH should be proposing to significantly RAISE taxes on profitable corporations and wealthy individuals, not cut them as enticement for republicans to do what they should be doing all along. If lowering corporate taxes benefited anyone other than the already wealthy, then decades of historically low taxes should have already resulted in great economic improvement.

What we're witnessing is the economic equivalent of magical thinking-- both the WH and the Congress appear to have such great faith in the IDEA of lowing taxes to stimulate growth that they're utterly blind to the results of our real world experiment trying it.

Yes lower the Corporate Rate BUT Eliminate the Off Shore Loopholes

Years ago here on DU I wrote series of Ops detailing the massive loopholes Corps and Jackasses like Mitt Romney use to hide assets. ALL OF THEM ARE JOB KILLERS FOR THE 99%

Raise the rates SIGNIFICANTLY and also close loopholes, etc. I want to see redistribution of wealth and a more equitable society, not enhanced corporate profits.

the average Mean Corp Tax Rate is 27% - so yes 28% without loopholes would be an increase.

But MultiNational Corps PAY WAY LESS like as low as 2%

What we have been seeing for the last 12 years is Huge MultiNational Conglomerates gobbling up USA Corps and outsourcing their production to qualify for the Off Shore Loopholes - eliminating MILLIONS of Good Paying Middle Class Jobs in the process and sending that work to China

Take away the Tax Breaks that Out Source American Jobs would be a Tax Increase on the Corps that Out Source American Jobs

but I disagree about lowering the corporate rate a time when the stock market just produced massive amounts of profit for corporations and those top percent that invest.... How can he effectively argue a weatlh inequality issue if he proposes allowing the rich to keep more of that weatlh that they got from investment it is transparently hypocritical to say the least... ENOUGH... Start of a jobs program by increasing the corporate tax rate and then dare the repukes to vote against jobs for the masses....

28% would be a huge increase for the outsourcing bastards

Enough games enriching the rich.

"He has said he would be willing to do corporate tax reform that lowers rates to 28 percent,"

Long term adjustment.

In his budget proposal last year, Obama called for $50 billion in additional short-term federal spending on infrastructure projects such as bridges, highways, and mass transit systems, as well as creation of a National Infrastructure Bank to make loans to such projects.

Short term adjustment

Yes of course they'll make a stink about a measly 50 million investment but in the end tax reform down to 28% = mo money honey.

IMHO



-p

Being the adult in the room still requires a dollar to buy a cup of coffee at a gas station. No one cares about the performance, except to think he looks like a chump or is complicit.

workforce, or who hire long term unemployed people.

Obviously, if those are blanket tax cuts, it is useless.

lower the CORPORATE tax rate (to a level well above the current effective corporate tax rate) does virtually nothing to effect the 1%er's tax rate ... Right?

However, part of the engine driving obscene profits and stratospheric salaries for corporate executives is the notion that their only duty is to maximize corporate profit. However, to be clear, I'd like to see the top tax rates for both corporations and wealthy individuals increased to downright punitive levels, e.g. greater than 80%.

if it includes closing "all" the current loopholes corporations like apple are using to avoid paying taxes then I say go for it.

However, corporate tax rates in this country are already lower than anytime since WWII. There is absolutely no justification for lowering them further other than to dangle yet another carrot in front of their CEOs and top execs-- and their wealthy investors, to whom the bulk of the additional profit accrues. As I mentioned up thread, I'd like to see both rates in the 80% range for the top income earners, whether corporate or individual.

by closing the loopholes then its a hike.
True not as large as one as many including myself would like but atleast it would be a step in the right direction.

It gives the impression that we've LOWERED corporate taxes even if closing loopholes actually ends up raising them some. But there's no honest discourse about the broader consequences of unfettered capitalism or impacts on most of our social classes. There's not public discussion about the morality of unfettered greed. While we've been splitting hairs ad infinitum about about one or two percentage points of corporate tax rates, the working poor have expanded to encompass much of the middle class. Minimum wage buys less today than it did in 1968. This proposal is a smoke screen at best. If your conclusion is correct, we've already admitted that collectively we cannot justify raising corporate tax revenues, so we have to lower them and then find dodges to get around that.

Instead, we need to tell corporations that there is no justification for obscene profits or CEO:worker compensation ratios of 475:1 (in the U.S). We need to impose some discipline on an economic system that has no objective other than to wring maximum profits from whole populations and enrich its shareholders and executives to the maximum possible degree.

We need a progressive government that is UP FRONT about its intent to achieve equitable wealth distribution. The Danes have a saying that paraphrases to something like "there should be few people with too little, and EVEN FEWER with too much." That is the message we need to send to American corporations and the "investor class."

These jobs will go to short term unemployed people while long term unemployed ones will not even get consideration, let alone those people who are out of the unemployment statistics because they have been unemployed for longer than the maximum benefit in their state.

So, it is nice and important, but it does not answer the specific question.

There seems to be a real disconnect between politicians and long term unemployed.

I'm assuming extension of unemployment benefits are included, as well as elimination of some special corporate tax deductions/welfare. Too bad we have to resort to bribing Republican obstructionists (and some Dems in right wing districts that are forced to out-right the Republicans).

The GOP will agree to the tax cuts, but nothing else.

I guess corporations need the money. May as well just cut it to zero and quit pretending they give a crap.

Jesus everything this White House does is all about pleasing the rethugs when are they going to figure out that the republicans are not going to agree on nothing as long as this black man is in the WH

They treated Clinton the same way. He gave them everything the greedy bastards wanted and they impeached him anyway.

that the GOP has NO intention of negotiating fairly, or he is simply in league with them to lower corporate taxes and shift the burden to the poor.

So, that means he's either stupid or malicious.

And yet he is a hero to folks around here because he is a "great progressive".

With friends like these...

As such he is a fiscal neoliberal. Face it, he wants to cut corporate taxes.

pro-surveillance, pro-Wall Street crime, anti-Marriage equality (until the LGBT block started threatening to withhold money in 2012, then he changed positions), anti-transparency, anti-whistle-blower and pro-oil/coal.

In my book that makes him a conservative.

Theres no other way of judging his position.

How dare you insist that a Democratic president actually espouse Democratic values? You must be a right-wing troll!

when my views were considered mainstream.

I too remember when your views were actually even mainstream republican views and not just dem views

Why not just resign and ask Congress to appoint Bush President again?

Because, of course, the last people they'd think of hiring would be Americans for the jobs. That would be "soshulizam".

Because the problem all along has been that corporate taxes are too high ???????????????????????

Just get rid of all taxes on corporations and be done with it.

That is the goal !!!!!!

Subsidize the rich, starve the working class and poor.

The government of the United States of America sickens me to my core.

Ignore the facts and do the exact opposite of what is required.

I thought this was the platform of the Tea Party and Republicans.

It appears it is the platform of all politicians in the U.S.

There is no point in voting in this country.

The majority have zero say in anything of importance.

to repairs on existing infrastructure

No more bridges to nowhere

If we can't repair what we already have

we shouldn't be building more things that will need repair

Which is OK to point, since their policy positions (or the sacred principles on which they stand, from their point of view) really suck and have been known to be a disaster since the Great Depression.

I wish the President had not proposed this. It sounds like he's been negotiating with himself, again. Nothing good has come of that in the last five years, and there's no reason to think it will now.

Look, the big corporations get around taxes anyway. It's the small ones who get stuck. As the former owner ( retired now) of a small business, simplification would be a great thing IMO. Infrastructure investment is crucial, and it would be a big boon for jobs.

Also, the US does have a high corporate rate compared to other countries, so what the assholes do is hold their money overseas to avoid US taxes. If our rates were more in line, then maybe some of that money could be put back in our economy.

Progressives shouldn't be against everything that has "corporate" attached to it. IMO

long term unemployment, however. It is hard to find a job if people do not read your resume or use filters to discard them.

Wish I could say I was surprised.

consisted of a big chunk of tax breaks to small business to get jobs.

Didn't get much in the way of jobs.

The next big chunk of the "stimulus" went to those "shovel-ready" projects that were held up in the states due to lack of revenue. You remember all the fun the media had with "shovel-ready" which turned out to be mostly payola for the gop governors.

Since then the fed has been "stimulating" us by giving free loans to banks, keeping interest rates down on what the banks pay but gouging the rest of us by not paying any interest on our savings. Oh and working so hard to make sure we don't have any of that nasty inflation that hurts all the rich people's investments in money.

If I get much more of these kinds of stimulations I'm going to be orgasming all over the floor.

No.

How about instead of playing political games and pointing fingers, the guy do what he promised to do IN 2008?

I cringe every time I hear about a grand bargain or a compromise. It always ends up with the corporatists getting 99% of what they want....blah.

Peace

Stand up and show some balls. Tell them to go fuck themselves like FDR did..again and again..

How about raising the Capital gains taxes to pay for a works program..... Dare the Repukes to vote against jobs for the people.... Start using your head PO...... I am so over this capitulation and I am RFH, are you?

https://www.readyforhillary.com/petition/130514bsnd?ms=e.20140103.gws

Because less revenue is what the country needs these days.

Doesn't add up in value to permanent cut to me. Plus, the President and every Democrat needs to grasp that one gets no credit for the portions of the negotiation made with themselves, rather your offer is your position and the bargaining starts from there rather than anything like either sides actual position.

You can't compromise for the other side and when you pre - compromise your position it is called changing your position and there is no credit to be had for doing so.

They don't. The only reason anyone votes for them is because they have a very effective propaganda machine.

He's the greatest thing since sliced bread don't cha know!



-p

How bout you? https://www.readyforhillary.com/petition/130514bsnd?ms=e.20140103.gws

They both forgot about the working class years ago.

I think she is the perfect answer for what ails the Democratic party.

n/t

lose elections.... and it doesn't matter I have been around long enough to know that when the rubber meets the road all on here will come together and support the best direction for America... just getting an early start ...

Peace!!!

I'm done with republicans and that includes Hillary. Also, if you want peace why are you pushing a warhawk for president?

By the way, those short term jobs will be for rebuilding an infrastructure that disproportionately supports the wealthy.

That's the starting point in this "negotiation." The government gives corporations a massive tax cut in return for allowing them to build roads that aid corporations, and of course since those corporations just got a big tax cut, even more of the funding for this construction will come from the pockets of the working classes.

Again, that's the starting point. What will the actual agreement look like?

I'm honestly done with Obama's economic deals. 2016 can't come fast enough.

I am.....

https://www.readyforhillary.com/petition/130514bsnd?ms=e.20140103.gws

I've had enough of these republicans running as Democrats.

Bring back Harry Truman

Populist DLC member!!!

The party is betting that they can win without liberals. Best of luck

that Obama never even fought for.

This tax cut proposal is great for coporate America and investors but sucks for those not rich enough to have capital gains... At a time when the rich are making a killing in the stock market you want to propose reducing the taxes on those gains?????? and then you are going to talk about weatlh inequality... Seriously? You will be the cause of the inequality, your advisors better start thinking straight or you will become a laughing stock.

Higher tiers of credit for the longer the newly-hired worker has been unemployed would be a very progressive feature of it. Those who have had a really, really tough time during the Great Recession would have employers taking a harder look at them to see if they'd be a good fit for a job, instead of just dismissing them as losers because they've been unemployed for a long time.

Rather than just hand out tax breaks and hoping for trickle down, you have got to use tax policy to get the desired result by directing the market to do what you need them to do. Think of it as the difference between planting seeds, and just scattering them all over the ground.

I hope I don't get flamed for this, but the Targeted Jobs Tax Credits were the only part of Reaganomics that I liked, and I think they were responsible for pulling us out of recession thirty years ago.

the rest of people? Please 'splain that to me.

what the content of a majority of those responding would be ... responses that betray a real lack of understanding of tax policy, economic and political.

First, Lowering the corporate tax rate to 28% (and closing corporate loop holes, as this "grand bargain" does) actually increases corporate tax rates, as they currently pay an effective rate (on average) of between 15-and 20%.

Secondly, reducing the tax rate to 28% in exchange for infrastructure spending (stimulus) is a great deal.

Lastly, lowering the corporate tax rate does virtually nothing to effect the 1%ers' tax rate.

But this "grand bargain" DOES give (uninformed and reflexively out-raged) "liberals" something to be out-raged about.

We SO need a progressive in the White House instead of a GOP appeaser!

If you make a decent 15-20% profit then by all means get a decent tax rate. If you make more then not only will you be taxed at a higher rate, but severe progressive tax rate. Also the laws will have to be revised to catch the criminals that would purposely sabotage their profits to get a lower rate. I don't know, there are a lot of details but I have always thought that tying profits to a tax rate might have some merit.

Nobody gets taxed for losses.

American manufacturers using American resources.

this sucks in every way. Very disgusting.

Not that I don't think that a grand bargain isn't exactly what I think we need but that it gives the Republicans an opportunity to cherry pick and that is exactly what has happened in each go around. Plus, the timing is off a little on this because we have another partial government shutdown looming in the middle of this month followed by a debt ceiling so you can bet that some immediate cherry picking will occur.

We need to make sure the White House knows we the people will not agree to this farce.

What will end up coming out of any grand bargain negotiation will be that corporations and the richest Americans will have their legally due tax rates cut to -25%, we will get $30M for a few roads and bridges and a further cut to SNAP and other programs.

Stop it already.

seems like they keep pretending it works when we have 30 plus fucking years of proof saying otherwise. Disgusting.

They need our help desperately.

are paid for with PRE-TAX income--hiring, training, and paying employees; buying supplies, adding and upgrading facilities, advertising, making charitable contributions, R&D. In other words, corporations pay income taxes only on what's left over AFTER they have done all these things.

A corporate tax cut means mostly bigger dividends for the shareholders and bigger bonuses for the executives.

The retained earnings argument is bogus, too, since the corporations are already sitting on more cash than they know what to do with.

A corporate tax cut SOUNDS good at first hearing, but that's only because most people assume--without really thinking about it--that corporations are taxed in the same way as individuals: all their income minus a few minor deductions. No, it's as if individuals could deduct their rent/all their mortgage, their grocery bill, their transportation costs, and all other necessary expenses from their personal income tax.

This is the 1% looking out for one another. Corporations already get a better tax deal than individuals.

that the media never talks about.

with tax incentives linked to putting money into the economy via R&D and business expansion that will really create jobs. Reaganomics is an epic failure that should have been abandoned 20 years ago.

though?

And that's his starting point. The cruelest joke ever played on non-republicans.

Yeah, right.

And if they lower the rate to 28 while closing loopholes, corporate tax revenue will actually increase. Krugman has pointed this out. Many other DUers have pointed this out. But everytime it comes up, a bunch of folks act all surprised and flabbergasted and completed ignore the bit where companies like GE end up paying 28% in taxes instead of 0%.

Snatching Defeat from The Jaws of victory!

I see nothing but victory for the GOP with this attitude.

is short-term, limited-in-scope jobs? And the 1% get MORE tax cuts?

Then apply cash to pay down debt run up by the 1% trickle down lie and the wars for oil. Then plenty of money for investment like there used to be

Sperling came up with sequester, too. He needs to return to private life.

Lowering corporate taxes is corporate tax "reform?" Gag.