nt

"I believe in fairness, equality and equal opportunity! And, live and let live!" - speaks to a different take than your post.

Shooting at a car isn't that serious a crime.

Because the crime involved a gun, he's looking at more time. I'm hearing 60-90 years on the counts he was convicted for.

..20 years for each of the attempted 2nd degree murder, and maybe 10 years for shooting into the car. Based on the fact that the three attempted 2nd degree murder convictions were separate crimes, the terms will run consecutively.

Welcome back to Jim Crow, only now it's covert and underground, dressed up in nice wording like Stand Your Ground and concealed carry!

violence.

South Carolina new 2.09 is the file I got the following from the National Coalition Against Domestic Violence.

“South Carolina ranks 7th in the nation for numbers of women
killed by men. The state has consistently ranked in the top 10 since
2000. The implications of this statistic are obvious and will require a
cooperative effort of our state leaders, our leaders in congress, our
law enforcement and the courts, as well as, increased resources for
shelters and advocates.”
-Executive Director, South Carolina Coalition
Against Domestic Violence and Sexual Assault


The South Carolina attorney general has named
domestic violence as the #1 crime problem in the
state.
• There were 35,894 victims of domestic violence in
South Carolina in 2005. 43% of reported domestic
violence cases ended in an arrest.8
• In South Carolina, 36% of aggravated assaults were
domestic violence related in 2006.10
• 1,810 forcible rapes were reported in South Carolina
in 2006.9
• 28% of murders in South Carolina were domestic
violence related in 2006.10
• There were 74 domestic violence related deaths in
2006, including spouses, ex-spouses, children,
boyfriends, girlfriends and in-laws.8
• Over the past 8 years, an average of 38 women were
killed annually by their intimate partner.
• The 2nd most common relationship between homicide
perpetrators and victims was boyfriend/girlfriend and
the third most common relationship was between
spouses in 2006.10

One in every four women will experience domestic violence in
her lifetime.1 One in 33 men have experienced an attempted or
completed rape.2
? An estimated 1.3 million women are victims of physical assault by
an intimate partner each year.3
? The majority (73%) of family violence victims are female. Females
were 84% of spousal abuse victims and 86% of abuse victims at
the hands of a boyfriend.4
? The cost of intimate partner violence exceeds $5.8 billion each
year, $4.1 billion of which is for direct medical and mental health
services.5
? Boys who witness domestic violence are twice as likely to abuse
their own partners and children when they become adults.6

Their minds are already closed. Just walk away.

To people who throw out "facts" that are incorrect.

Also, my mind is closed to people who abuse their domestic partners, no matter the gender.

You don't know me. Don't assume you do.

"the leading cause of death for women in SC is at the hands of domestic violence."

It is factually incorrect. And disrespectful to victims to throw out something outlandish (and instantly debunked), as we get caught up in arguing over minutiae rather than the elephant in the room. Had you said ANY of your response in the first message, it would have mattered. Now, we've degraded the conversation and nobody will actually listen.

Think before you post. Don't be a FReeper and post random crap that is untrue.

Are we talking a muscle machine as in a car, or one as in the ones in a gym? Because if it's the latter, I would like to ask you a question in PM.

The bigger , zoomed out view?

The elite/rich well connected I believe view it as purging the environment of the "takers".

Thru racial injustice, chemical/oil contaminates, moving jobs off shore, creating desperation for survival and the racial hair triggers is not an accident. Health care inferiority for Americans

Fight each other, kill each other, get sick and die.

As corps "downsized" the employed population in America, the rich are orchestrating the downsize of the American population. Kill each other off, they will wait!

It's the S.O.F.T. Method. Survival of the fittest.

I'm relieved that unlike zimmerman, dunn will spend the rest of his life in prison, the REST OF HIS LIFE! Now we need to do the social science and policy research to expose what this is really about - In fear of one's life DUE TO RACISM.

I read the link. did not talk about his sentence.
I do not know Fl Law.

Big differences... the difference between 85 years and 5 years.

Between 60 and 105 years - 20-30 for each attempted murder count, 15 years for firing at the vehicle.

this guy spends a few more years in jail and gets free food, clothing, medical care for the rest of his days in jail?

This guy who cries about his dog and has no remorse for the blcak kid, Jordan Davis, he killed?

Screw those white racists, let's send them back to the country they came from. We don't need you here.

My opinion only.

that survived, but could not find the same intent, in the same shooting, on the one victim that the attempt to kill was successful on?

Jury, you make no sense.

They are definitely a class act. My heart goes out to them in their grief and loss.

So since they could not reach a unanimous verdict, that charge resulted in a hung jury.

I don't like it, but I understand it.

Each charge of attempted 2nd degree murder carries a minimum 20 year sentence, so he's going away for a while and will still be retried on the murder charge.

The attempted murder was unanimous because they were trying to escape, driving away, so he clearly had zero excuse for shooting at them.

The actual killing was probably split between murder 1 and 2. Since he can be re-tried for it, they will still be able to get him.

And it seems like either way, he's got what amounts to a life sentence.

the actual killing was probably split between guilty of some degree of murder and not guilty. I think at lease one person on that jury believed Dunn was in fear for his life because of the scary black kids and their loud music. I think that person refused to compromise with a guilty.. not even manslaughter. And others on the jury refused to go with a not guilty verdict.

I think if the problem had been deciding between degrees of murder, they would have rather compromise than have a mistrial.

they were caught between murder 1 and 2. That 1 person wouldn't compromise on murder 1.

If some gun nut racist was going to go with self-defense, they could just a easily have said the prosecution hadn't proven attempted murder when he shot at the car, and insisted on not guilty on any counts.

Either way, he goes into the re-trial with 3 attempted murder convictions, which does not help his case at all.

It was a clear intent that he murdered Mr. Davis with depraved indifference in his life.

That is the definition of first degree murder.

The holdout is a big fucking idiot.

You do realize we are speculating, don't you?

This website says the attempted second degree carries a MAXIMUM of 15 years...

http://www.ericmathenylaw.com/Criminal-Defense-Blog/2010/June/Attempted-Second-Degree-Murder.aspx

No possibility of parole that way.

Thanks.

He was convicted for TRYING to kill the black men he didn't kill. He wasn't convicted for the balck man he DID kill. Therefore, if he had killed ALL of the black men he would be a free man?

Without anyone to contest his story he would be given the benefit of the doubt.

" Actually, what is likely the case is that some jurors wanted 1st degree and others wanted 2nd

So since they could not reach a unanimous verdict, that charge resulted in a hung jury.

I don't like it, but I understand it.

Each charge of attempted 2nd degree murder carries a minimum 20 year sentence, so he's going away for a while and will still be retried on the murder charge."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=729004

why not settle on second, so he at least got SOMETHING for the actual murder?

Did the jury even have the option of second degree murder or manslaughter?

It seems like an insult to the family of the kid who was killed.

That's why I don't think the problem was deciding on 1st or 2nd degree. I think the problem was deciding on guilty or not guilty. And yes they also had the option of manslaughter.

If 2 jurors (for example) wanted to convict him for first degree murder and refused to change their stance, that alone could cause a hung jury.

A retrial could bring a completely different result.

four counts was the fact there was about a 10 second delay before the last volley of bullets. It is kind of hard to claim self defense or that you are scared for your life if they are trying to drive away from you. And the jury was told that each count was a separate incident. Dunn's attorney was not able to wrap up the whole incident with one big bow.

not impressed with florida 'justice'. I guess he'll get some time in jail for his crime of murder. Oh excuse me, he shot a man to death and he could not be found to have been culpable? So he won't spend anytime in jail for murder just shooting AT the other three he missed. Man! This is amerikkkan justice, florida style. Well he will spend time behind bars, that's better than the zimpig anyway. Take what I can get. Kid is still dead, just like Trayvon and his murderer get's off from that murder. I'm beginning to grit my teeth at florida 'justice'.

means KAW, Kill At Will. Yet another victory for the NRA.
I know there are a lot of good people in Florida but I cannot in good conscience take my family there any more. We've always enjoyed the beaches but there are just too many nuts with guns coupled with juries that do not have the courage to convict.
I feel so bad for the Jordan Davis family.

so hopefully he'll live out the rest of his life in jail, with some 250 pound, 6'3" weight lifting African American cellmate who will see that "justice" is served on this creep.

I want him to live a nice long life behind bars

he should have been convicted of first-degree but at least this gives him a good long prison sentence. Better result than Zimmerman by far.

but, damn! This is disappointing.

Retrial, I suppose.

Dunn will likely spend the rest of his life in a Florida prison. That is not a pleasant place to be. Maximum counts are 20 years per count (x 3 = 60) plus 15 years for the commission using a gun = 75 years. He is in his 40s so he will die in prison.

The prosecution has the option to re-try him on the primary charge. Some legal experts are saying they need to do this to pursue justice for Jordan Davis' family and I agree. It won't change the fact Dunn will die in prison but it will change the dynamic. If he is convicted of the underlying murder in a subsequent trial it will demonstrate that we don't allow people to go about killing young African-American men for no reason at all.

I'm torn about retrying him on the primary charge. It depends on how harsh of a sentence he is given on the other ones. If he is not given the max, I say retry him.

He should be re-tried on the murder charge. The victim and his family deserve to receive an actual verdict and to receive justice.

It might also weaken any chance of an appeal.

it is so important for precedent. People will just keep shooting if they keep getting away with it.

and he is sentenced to 60 years on 3 charges, then he will be 107 when he is released if he lives that long. He had better hope he does not have a black cellmate.

He needs to be shown mercy in prison, but he didn't show any mercy when he had his freedom. His attitude from his jail house emails don't show that he thinks he did anything wrong, he still sees himself as the victim in all of this.

With some quiet time, he might realize how blessed his life was, and how blessed the lives of those he tried to kill and the young man that he did kill, for frivolous reasons, really was. And that how in one day, he lost all of it, as he had a bad attitude and lack of respect for others.

He will literally live the prison that his attitude has kept blacks in in this country, an open air one where they are regarded suspect or criminal for the most trivial of behaviors. From the time of the plantation, any black sans a set of shackles was considered to be a threat. Any movement, look or words made was considered to be a threat. Just their existence was considered to be reducing the quality of life of racists. That is what jail is, hyper supervision and regimentation of every act. That is why it is the opposite of freedom to think, to decide, to live by one's own rules.

I doubt the color of his cell mate will affect that. And I don't indulge myself in any kind of fantasies about how he will suffer some obscene revenge in jail. He didn't' learn how to behave in society before he got to jail, now he will live in a social milieu that is much less forgiving and where he will not be able to throw a tantrum.

And he'll be unarmed and without means to get away. That is what happens to those who cannot respect the gifts they have been given in life.

As has been said, I think the jury was stuck between Murder 1 and Murder 2 - it's almost a logical impossibility for them to have agreed on the attempted counts but have somebody holding out for innocence on the actual murder charge. I had a nagging worry about overcharging, again (Zimmy was overcharged from a pragmatic POV and Casey Anthony on capital murder was an epic fail from the get-go); hopefully the prosecution will go for what they can get. Less than perfect, but a Murder 2 conviction is a hell of a lot better than nothing.

As long as they run the sentences consecutive and not concurrent he'll die in prison.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4503414

Even if his story is true (which I doubt) he had no right to shoot at a car with people in it that were not attacking him. Maybe justice in Florida ain't so bad: Zimmerman was acquitted (as he should have been) and Dunn has been convicted (as he should be).

a zimpig apologist. geez

The prosecution's case against Zimmerman was weak (as most people who understand the law and followed the trial realize). I am not a defender of Zimmerman. (For all I know, he got away with murder.) But I am a fan of the burden of proof that the prosecution in the Zimmerman case failed to meet.

your way of viewing racism, murder and travesties of justice in any manner you choose. "for all you know"......... I know what I know. They are in TOTAL disagreement.

Zimmerman was guilty. The prosecution did a lousy job as did that jury.

Had the charge been murder 2, not murder 1, a guilty verdict would probably be already reached given the results on the rest of the charges.

The charge was 1st degree murder, and included the lesser charges of 2nd degree and manslaughter.

So the jury did have those other options. They couldn't agree on any of it. Somebody wanted a totally not guilty verdict on the murder charge.

Trials are always like that. You don't even know the basic charges, so why you feel you're an expert, I have no idea. If anyone doesn't think a black man who killed a white teenager in the exact same circumstances wouldn't have been convicted within a few hours, they are full of it.

please present it. Otherwise, your crystal ball must be better than the one I have.

I do know that basic charges. I have not presented myself as an expert. However, if I can help clarify any confusion you have then you are welcome to ask questions.

Since you claimed there was no second degree murder charge.

I find to be very true.

You are dealing with a closed mind. Don't waste your time with them.

I do however appreciate your offer of clarification, and didn't read it the way the "bullshit" poster did.

Sometimes it is fun to play with some of the posters if I have nothing better to do for a few minutes, like a cat playing with its prey.


A belated welcome to DU.

Thank you for the welcome!

Have a great Week!

So your point is nonsensical.

On The Killing Of Jordan Davis By Michael Dunn
Ta-Nehisi Coates
Feb 15 2014, 10:07 PM ET

wish I had something more to say about the fact that Michael Dunn was not convicted for killing a black boy. Except I said it after George Zimmerman was not convicted of killing a black boy. Except the parents of black boys already know this. Except the parents of black boys have long said this, and they have been answered with mockery.

Jordan Davis had a mother and a father. It did not save him. Trayvon Martin had a mother and a father. They could not save him. My son has a father and mother. We cannot protect him from our country, which is our aegis and our assailant. We cannot protect our children because racism in America is not merely a belief system but a heritage, and the inability of black parents to protect their children is an ancient tradition.

Henry "Box" Brown, whose family was destroyed and whose children were trafficked, knew:

I stationed myself by the side of the road, along which the slaves, amounting to three hundred and fifty, were to pass. The purchaser of my wife was a Methodist minister, who was about starting for North Carolina. Pretty soon five wagon-loads of little children passed, and looking at the foremost one, what should I see but a little child, pointing its tiny hand towards me, exclaiming, "There's my father; I knew he would come and bid me good-bye...”

and I will go further and say that there are plenty of people in this country now who would have no problem watching and partaking of this type scenario today. A methodist preacher huh? figures. religious hypocrite partaking of a large slice of amerikkkan hypocrisy. I've thought of this very thing many times, children and wives sold to different people, destroying families. Today it's zimpigs and dunns shooting and destroying people and families. How sad we're slipping, slowly and inexorably, back to the RW 'good ole days'. Warning: not all people out here are blind and faux news stupid!

I think it is between first and second degree murder. Corey proved that it wasn't self defense, most likely some jurors voted for first degree and others voted for second degree.

The judge declared a mistrial. There is no verdict for the murder.

SYG simply means no duty to retreat. Without SYG, you are expected to retreat if you can do so safely, which I think is human nature. Most of the self defense cases I have seen even where SYG exists, the person tries to get away first.
Running to car to get the pistol out of the glove box and returning to Davis' car to continue the argument, plus driving off and having the cops find him,
All the State has to do to prove it wasn't self defense is prove one of the five principles of self defense to be false.
Innocence, Imminence, Proportionality, Avoidance, and Reasonableness.
If you can run to your car to get the gun, it isn't imminent (it is also why warning shot will get you in trouble)
If you can go to the car, you can lock the door to try to avoid the situation in the same time it takes to get something out of the glove box.
Since there is no evidence of Davis getting out of the car or having a weapon or pounding Dunn's head on the parking lot, innocence goes away.
Those two were known and obvious before the trial started.

outside of contract killings, first degree is hard to prove. The fact that he drove off and ordered pizza, forcing the cops to find him, shows that he doesn't give a shit about taking a life. At least in my INSHO. Florida

They've already got him in jail for the rest of his life. Just be done with it. Another trial will be costly...let's leave "wasting taxpayers' money to make a statement" to the Repugs.

If Dunn gets something that looks like Life Without Parole, just stick a fork in him and he's Done.

which could be quite valuable since he's going to be in there quite a while.

Shooting at a bunch of people and missing, not as much.

The jury could agree that there had been murder attempts against Jordan's friends, but could not agree that Jordan had been murdered? Or was the problem that they couldn't decide on whether Dunn exhibited premeditation or a conscious intent to kill?

So they compromised: Convict him of everything else, and expect us to be grateful that the judge does not have the power to run the attempted murder sentences concurrently. No justice for Jordan, but Dunn is effectively incarcerated for life -- so consciences are clear and mission accomplished!


rocktivity