is planning. You can't lay all your cards on the table at once. If he looks like he's moving beyond Crimea, the measures will be more severe against him.

http://ria.ru/politics/20140304/997988750.html

Yanukovych written request to use the Russian armed forces to protect the population of Ukraine , told the UN Security Council , Vitaly Churkin, Russia's permanent representative .

"Today, I have been authorized to report as follows . President of Russia received following an appeal by President Viktor Yanukovych . I quote . Statement by the President of Ukraine. As the legitimately elected president of Ukraine declare that events on the Maidan, illegal seizure of power in Kiev led to the fact that Ukraine was on the verge civil War. The country there is chaos and anarchy . Life and safety of people, especially in the southeast and in the Crimea, in jeopardy. under the influence of Western countries made ​​open terror and violence. people are persecuted for political and linguistic grounds , "- said Churkin .

" In this regard, referring to Russian President Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin to use the armed forces of the Russian Federation to restore the rule of law, peace, order , stability , protection of the population of Ukraine. Viktor Yanukovych , March 1, 2014 ," - he quoted Yanukovych's appeal , stating its legitimacy as head of state .

to his mansion although we acknowledge him as president."

http://www.interpretermag.com/ukraine-liveblog-day-14-could-a-cold-war-turn-hot-today/#1626

Looks like Yanukovych really has pissed Putin off with his poor performance. He is not getting Russian support to get back in office. Given how ineffective he has been (from Putin's perspective) over the past few months, it's no wonder that Russia would like to see someone else in office rather than Yanukovych.

The U.S. has the luxury to consider harsh measures, because Europe will bear most the brunt of economic warfare.

probably don't rely on the Russian gas coming through the pipelines crossing Ukraine.

they hurt the people, not the governments. draconian. explain why this belief is wrong.

and Putin is able to annex or strong arm countries that were formerly part of the Soviet Union or Warsaw Pact, the people in those countries will be hurt very badly.

That's why those countries want the strongest sanctions. They know what it is like to live in the shadow of Russia and they did not like it one bit.

Also notice that the Swedes are upset. The Russians have made numerous incursions on Swedish airspace and Swedish-controlled areas of the Baltic Sea. They do not want to have to put up with it anymore and I don't blame them.

Of course one feels for ordinary Russians who might suffer from economic sanctions, but what about the people who want to remain free of Russian influence?

it's a sticky wicket. i don't know the answer. i've just come to believe, after Iraq and Iran, that sanctions end up placing the largest burden on innocents. but i don't know the answer.
i'm distressed at what's going on. that's all i really KNOW.

kicked the Russians out. I was traveling with a good friend whose father's family came from Lithuania before WWI.

We were able to meet and really talk with several Lithuanians. They had absolutely nothing but bad things to say about the Russians who had been dominating them for centuries. They desperately wanted to join NATO so that we would keep them safe from yet another Russian advance. Many of them saw our failure to do something about the Russian attacks on Chechnya. I told them that Chechnya was very far away and that Lithuania was a European country that we could defend logistically.

You could see how the Lithuanians were trying very hard to improve their country. You'd see parts of broken down apartments built by the Soviets with balconies that the Lithuanians had renovated. You'd see broken down collective farm buildings and small buildings with chickens, pigs and cattle that small independent Lithuanian farmers had built from scraps.

I could see that for Lithuania, getting out from under the Russian thumb was a big improvement. Perhaps that really affects my thinking.

They must be unbelievably frightened now, though. There are still many Russians living in Lithuania, maybe because living standards are better and no one is going to jail for speaking his or her mind, unlike Russia. If the Russians in Lithuania tell Putin that they are being hurt, what's to stop Putin from trying to take Lithuania if he is allowed to use might to make right.

I'd like to see sanctions that hit the Russian Oligarchs hard, and hit the average Russian less.

I'm sure they were going through quite a hard transition after years of being part of the Soviet Union. Eastern Europe is one of the many places I haven't seen and would like to go. The problem is there are just too many countries to choose from.

demand change.

Kinda like how we helped depose their democratically elected president so as to precipitate exactly what we knew the Russians would do. And we only spent $5 billion, plus some other money, doing it. And it's all supposed to work out.

but in N Korea instance the people are so oppressed they dare not demand anything.
i need to be better informed to respond to your second statement.

From the horse's mouth...

My dumbfuck right winged relative was saying Obama is a N..... and cant lead, and is allowing Putin to walk all over the world. I asked..what do you want him to do? He needs to lead he says....I said nope not an answer, what do you want him to do? do let Putin attack a sovereign country and I said Oh like Bush did in Iraq.....Silence.....so to ALL GOP spying on Democratic Underground... tell us what do you want this President to do?

I would not be having any more conversation with that person.

that I would like the State Department to do stat is to FUCKING GET SOME ENCRYPTED PHONES ALREADY!
Then we wouldn't have Ms. Nuland recordings floating around with comments alleging that the whole thing is just a CIA plot.
Where is NSA when you need it?

Sorry for screaming.

There will be no appetite for a war with Russia.

sort of like Putin's appetite.

countries in Europe want to go slower.

When you try to get many countries to act in concert on non military actions like this it will take time. If the EU and the US can ultimately agree on significant economic responses to Russia 's invasion, Putin may regret his actions. In the meantime he looks good, but it is more important to create precedents that make such military adventures less attractive in the future.

Reading down the article, I was surprised that Downing Street secretly wants to assure Russian money can be deposited in "The City of London." That clearly suggests a less than committed attitude toward punishing President Putin and his government.

pretty good video IMHO

&feature=youtu.be

Thank you for posting it here.

Thanks for posting that. I'm going to watch it later after I get some things done. The only thing I am familiar with VICE is when Dennis Rodman was filmed going to North Korea.

President Barack Obama convenes a National Security Council meeting in the Situation Room of the White House to discuss the situation in Ukraine, March 3, 2014. (Pete Souza/Official White House Photo)

from: http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/3/2/live-blog-crisisinukraine.html

Beyond that, let them take care of it.

In a meeting with the National Security Council, President Obama discussed what steps the US and international partners could take to further isolate Russia, Reuters reports.

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/3/2/live-blog-crisisinukraine.html

Pro-Russian authorities in Crimea will cut off water and electricity to Ukrainian soldiers in bases surrounded by Russian forces on Monday night, a Russian former lawmaker loyal to President Vladimir Putin said.

Sergei Markov, who held meetings with pro-Russian authorities on the Ukrainian peninsula earlier on Monday, told reporters the soldiers would also be told they would not receive their next pay packet if they did not publicly renounce their loyalty to the new provisional government in Kiev, the capital.

"If they stay here and remain loyal to Kiev and the Ukrainian government, it will become more uncomfortable for them," said Markov, who sits in a Kremlin-backed public policy chamber. "The pressure is going to increase tonight."

[Reuters]

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/3/2/live-blog-crisisinukraine.html

Company Gazprom (Открытое Акционерное Общество «Газпром», OAO Gazprom Russian: ОАО «Газпром», IPA: [ɡɐsˈprom]) is the largest extractor of natural gas and one of the largest companies in the world. Its headquarters are in the Cheryomushki District, South-Western Administrative Okrug, Moscow.[3] Its name is a contraction of Russian: Газовая промышленность, tr. Gazovaya Promyshlennost, meaning "gas industry". Gazprom was created in 1989 when the Ministry of Gas Industry of the Soviet Union transformed itself into a corporation, keeping all its assets intact. The company was later privatised in part, but currently the Russian government holds most of the control in its hands.

In 2011, the company produced about 513.2 billion cubic metres (18.12 trillion cubic feet) of natural gas, amounting to more than 17% of worldwide gas production. In addition, Gazprom produced about 32.3 million tons of crude oil and nearly 12.1 million tons of gas condensate. Gazprom's activities accounted for 8% of Russia's gross domestic product in 2011.

The major part of Gazprom's production fields are located around the Gulf of Ob in the Yamalo-Nenets Autonomous Okrug in Western Siberia, while the Yamal Peninsula is expected to become the company's main gas producing region in the future. Gazprom possesses the largest gas transport system in the world, with approximately 158,200 kilometres of gas trunk lines. Major new pipeline projects include Nord Stream and South Stream...

Gas pipeline transport Revenue Increase US$ 153.0 billion (2012)[1][2]

Net income Decrease US$ 38.7 billion (2012)[1][2]

Owner(s) Russian Government (50.01%)

Employees 393,000

Russia is holding a sword over Ukraine's and Europe's heads. They took measures before and may play this hand again:

Price disputes

On 1 January 2006, at 10:00 (Moscow time), during the Russia-Ukraine gas dispute, Gazprom ceased the supply of gas to the Ukrainian market, calling on Ukraine's government to pay increases that partially reflected the global increases in fuel prices.

During the night from 3 to 4 January 2006, Naftogas of Ukraine and Gazprom negotiated a deal that temporarily[56] resolved the long-standing gas price conflict between Russia and Ukraine.

So they decided to deal after having to accept the reality of bitter cold weather on their people after only a few hours. Without a gun being fired.

On 13 March 2008, Gazprom agreed to supply the Ukraine with gas for the rest of the year in a deal that will cut out intermediary companies, a move it hopes will end payment disputes. Ukraine will pay $315 (£115) per 1,000 cubic metres of gas supplied in January and February this year, then between March and December it will pay $179.50 per 1,000 cubic metres.[57] This came after a three day crisis the week before when gas supplies to Ukraine were halved.

On 3 April 2006, during the Russia-Belarus energy dispute, Gazprom indicated it would triple the price of natural gas sold to Belarus after 31 December 2006. In December 2006 Gazprom threatened a cut-off of supplies to Belarus at 10 am Moscow time on 1 January 2007, unless it agrees to raise the price it pays for the gas from $47 to $200 per 1,000 cubic metres or to cede control over its distribution network.[58] Some analysts suggested Moscow was penalising Alexander Lukashenko, the President of Belarus, for not delivering on pledges of closer integration with Russia,[59] while others noted that other friendly countries like Armenia were paying as much for their gas as Belarus would with the new price levels.[60]

Later Gazprom requested a price of $105,[61] yet Belarus still refusing the agreement. It responded that if supplies were cut, it would deny Gazprom access to its pipelines, which would hurt gas transportation to Europe.[62] However, on 1 January 2007, just a few hours before the deadline, Belarus and Gazprom signed a last-minute agreement. Under the agreement, Belarus undertook to pay $100 per 1,000 cubic metre in 2007. The agreement also allowed Gazprom to purchase 50% of the shares in Beltransgaz, the Belarusian pipeline network.[63] Immediately following the signing of this agreement Belarus declared a $42/ton transportation tax on Russian oil travelling through the Gazprom pipelines crossing its territory.

In November 2008 Gazprom and Ukraine escalated their dispute. This resulted in both Gazprom and Ukraine's Naftogaz cutting gas supplies to part of Europe in 2009.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gazprom

Russia, primary shareholder in Gazprom, has had no problem with cutting off the flow of gas to entire nations. They know this, and Ukraine has a huge debt to Russia right now.

Note in the Wikipedia entry information on the changes that Putin made to Gazprom, the Greenpeace incident. And how $35billion was ordered to be paid by one person who led a company all in one single day.

Sometimes we separate the basic needs of nations, like the resources they require, from our political ideology and ideals of how the world should be run, and who is right and who is wrong. I'm beginning to arrive at the conclusion that this is not the out all evil corporation we are discussing in some of these things.

Or the good or evil leaders, but human needs being met or not met, by the systems people have set up to meet them. And the solution is not pointing a finger, but to take responsiblity for the affects of getting what we need or want. I think we will have a more honest world if we consider these things.

02.39 During the two-hour National Security Council meeting, Mr Obama discussed with his advisers what steps the United States and its allies could take to "further isolate" Russia over its military intervention in Ukraine, a White House official has said.

The group discussed ways to "reinforce that the Russians still have an opportunity to take immediate steps to de-escalate the situation or they face further political and economic repercussions from the international community," the official said about the meeting.

"The president will continue to receive regular updates on the situation, and to remain in close contact with his foreign counterparts," the official said.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10672417/Ukraine-live.html

I think the US should follow Russia's lead and take over Canada... Wait, I mean follow Europe's lead on this, since it is a European issue and the US should stay in a supportive role of the EU. As many said, it's countries in Europe who will feel the consequences of whatever actions are taken or are not taken.

and are pledged to defend each other.

Right now, the Poles have convened a NATO conference to discuss any response should Putin take over Ukraine and move right up to the Eastern European NATO countries.

The alliance does mean something, and it puts us on the line if Putin gets out of hand.

In that case the US involvement would be fully expected and acceptable. However, I don't think Russia will be invading Poland anytime soon. At least nothing I've seen has indicated that's Russia's plan, and I'm pretty sure there would be lots of reports of massive troop movements if that was the goal. Also, they are already feeling economic blowback from their Ukraine adventures, and they haven't even carried out a real invasion of the Ukraine. Plus the situation in Ukraine is a bit more complex then Russia just going in and taking land they want in a '39-esque fashion.

Much of the rest of Europe can get Statoil gas from Norway but that might have to bought on the spot market.

If they don't cough up for last years's bill they might get cut off anyway. Whatever made Poland and Slovakia think they'd be paid for reverse feeds defeats me.