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steve2470

(37,457 posts)
Tue Mar 4, 2014, 02:02 AM Mar 2014

Another (Ukraine) ultimatum: surrender by 16:00

Source: TIME

Commander of Ukraine's Belbek base just got a call from Russian counterpart. Another ultimatum: surrender by 16:00. This is the 3rd one

Simon Shuster = reporter for TIME magazine on location in Crimea

Read more: https://twitter.com/shustry/status/440727984140713984



0900 EST = 1600 EET (Eastern European Time, which is used in Odessa)
62 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Another (Ukraine) ultimatum: surrender by 16:00 (Original Post) steve2470 Mar 2014 OP
Seems there are various and conflicting reports on this. Ubderstandably, I guess. pinto Mar 2014 #1
update from BBC steve2470 Mar 2014 #2
more on Russian troops returning to base steve2470 Mar 2014 #4
Encouraging news, perhaps? TheMightyFavog Mar 2014 #18
update from Shuster steve2470 Mar 2014 #3
more from Shuster steve2470 Mar 2014 #5
It's a little hard to see the red flag from the angle the picture was taken davidpdx Mar 2014 #12
update from Shuster steve2470 Mar 2014 #14
red flag meaning here steve2470 Mar 2014 #24
Thanks for the clarification on that Steve davidpdx Mar 2014 #36
my pleasure ! nt steve2470 Mar 2014 #37
Unarmed. This is what I said they should do! joshcryer Mar 2014 #9
I really hope those Ukrainian soldiers don't get shot accidentally nt steve2470 Mar 2014 #11
That is an interesting strategy davidpdx Mar 2014 #13
thanks for update, steve Cha Mar 2014 #6
yep ! :) nt steve2470 Mar 2014 #7
Have there been any indications the draft went through? joshcryer Mar 2014 #8
I don't know, I saw a BBC report of some showing up in Kiev nt steve2470 Mar 2014 #10
see this post for latest Shuster update steve2470 Mar 2014 #15
Shuster update steve2470 Mar 2014 #16
live video stream of Belbek standoff steve2470 Mar 2014 #17
Russians back down.... steve2470 Mar 2014 #19
face off between Ukraine base commander and Russian officer steve2470 Mar 2014 #20
Thanks wheniwasincongress Mar 2014 #21
+1 tofuandbeer Mar 2014 #23
more good info and pics in this thread steve2470 Mar 2014 #22
summary from BBC steve2470 Mar 2014 #25
Eek davidpdx Mar 2014 #38
summary of Belbek from AP steve2470 Mar 2014 #26
Talks between Russians and Ukrainians at Belbek fail steve2470 Mar 2014 #27
Wives of Ukraine officers to join men marching steve2470 Mar 2014 #28
Russian APC arrives at Belbek steve2470 Mar 2014 #29
Ukraine commander demands to guard base jointly with Russians.... steve2470 Mar 2014 #30
You mean this isn't the big ol' tough Neo-Nazi's marching into the face of armed Russian jtuck004 Mar 2014 #31
Clearly a CIA op. nt DRoseDARs Mar 2014 #34
LOL davidpdx Mar 2014 #39
Yeah, we would never do such a thing. ForgoTheConsequence Mar 2014 #42
While full well know we did, I think it is stupid to automatically assume it was the US davidpdx Mar 2014 #44
You've already made assumptions. ForgoTheConsequence Mar 2014 #46
I'm not just talking about that one thread, I'm referring to multiple threads davidpdx Mar 2014 #47
Why would I prove anything? ForgoTheConsequence Mar 2014 #48
You implied by your response that it was the US davidpdx Mar 2014 #49
Don't puff your internet chest out tough guy. ForgoTheConsequence Mar 2014 #50
You are the one that attacked me "tough guy" davidpdx Mar 2014 #51
I didn't attack anyone. ForgoTheConsequence Mar 2014 #53
They do lie Mr. Snark davidpdx Mar 2014 #54
Prove they're lying. ForgoTheConsequence Mar 2014 #55
No, you'll get the "prove it DIDNT happen" response. 7962 Mar 2014 #61
Indeed. levp Mar 2014 #62
Yeah, cause this is exactly the same circumstance...... 7962 Mar 2014 #60
That is not propaganda cosmicone Mar 2014 #52
Ukraine soldiers allowed to break ranks and smoke steve2470 Mar 2014 #32
Ukrainian soldiers and wives discuss return to base statement steve2470 Mar 2014 #33
Russian media now at Belbek steve2470 Mar 2014 #35
Ukraine's 204th tactical aviation brigade steve2470 Mar 2014 #40
Russian journalists leave Belbek steve2470 Mar 2014 #41
pro-Russia Crimeans coming to the base steve2470 Mar 2014 #43
Platoon of Ukrainians or Russians? davidpdx Mar 2014 #45
Berkut attacking base steve2470 Mar 2014 #56
4 wives marched with officer husbands steve2470 Mar 2014 #57
Russian answer to Ukrainian demand in 5 minutes steve2470 Mar 2014 #58
It will be a loud and clear NYET. n/t cosmicone Mar 2014 #59

steve2470

(37,457 posts)
2. update from BBC
Tue Mar 4, 2014, 02:18 AM
Mar 2014

06:14:

Russian troops taking part in military exercises near the Ukrainian border are ordered by President Putin to return to their bases, presidential spokesman Dmitry Peskov is quoted as saying by Russian news agencies.

06:04:

Nadzhiye Femi, a Crimean journalist in Bakhchysarai, tells Ukraine's Espreso TV that life is quieter now and there are fewer cars on the streets. Some people are scared, but there's no mass evacuation of families. She adds that Crimean Tatars - some of whom remember the Stalinist deportations in the 1940s - feel that they are in danger.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26428296

steve2470

(37,457 posts)
4. more on Russian troops returning to base
Tue Mar 4, 2014, 02:24 AM
Mar 2014

06:21: More on the statement by Russian presidential spokesman Dmitry Peskov that troops taking part in military exercises across western Russia are to return to base. He says the manoeuvres had been "a success". Moscow denies that they were linked to events in Ukraine, Reuters reports.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26428296

steve2470

(37,457 posts)
3. update from Shuster
Tue Mar 4, 2014, 02:21 AM
Mar 2014

Incredible. Half the Ukraine troops from Belbek base now marching to airstrip occupied by Russians. Unarmed. To take it back.

https://twitter.com/shustry/status/440733209694060544

steve2470

(37,457 posts)
5. more from Shuster
Tue Mar 4, 2014, 02:27 AM
Mar 2014
https://twitter.com/shustry/status/440734434686689280

The column of troops, carrying the Ukraine and Soviet (!) flags, about to march on the Russian occupied airstrip. pic.twitter.com/prR9rfP7Fp

davidpdx

(22,000 posts)
12. It's a little hard to see the red flag from the angle the picture was taken
Tue Mar 4, 2014, 02:47 AM
Mar 2014

It looks like they are at parade rest. Would be interesting to get confirmation on which flag that is for sure.

steve2470

(37,457 posts)
24. red flag meaning here
Tue Mar 4, 2014, 03:34 AM
Mar 2014

The red flag the Ukrainians marched with is the banner of the fighter pilots who fought Nazis in 1941 and guarded the Yalta Conference

https://twitter.com/shustry/status/440750786432479232

joshcryer

(62,276 posts)
9. Unarmed. This is what I said they should do!
Tue Mar 4, 2014, 02:43 AM
Mar 2014

If they become hostages, then they will no doubt embolden other Ukrainians, if they are allowed to walk around unencumbered, then Putin's invasion will be unmasked as a threat with no backing to it. So he will be forced to start detaining them to make it look as if his newly acquired territory is itself being invaded by foreign elements.

joshcryer

(62,276 posts)
8. Have there been any indications the draft went through?
Tue Mar 4, 2014, 02:41 AM
Mar 2014

ie, mass numbers of Ukrainians going to their respective bases to be armed and readied?

steve2470

(37,457 posts)
16. Shuster update
Tue Mar 4, 2014, 02:57 AM
Mar 2014

Russians call commander to negotiate. Troops have RPGs and machine guns trained on the column of unarmed Ukrainian soldiers. Belbek, Crimea

https://twitter.com/shustry/status/440742230853447680

steve2470

(37,457 posts)
19. Russians back down....
Tue Mar 4, 2014, 03:06 AM
Mar 2014

Russians back down, allow 10 Ukraine soldiers to take up positions at occupied base, but still awaiting orders from Moscow

https://twitter.com/shustry/status/440744432124837888

steve2470

(37,457 posts)
20. face off between Ukraine base commander and Russian officer
Tue Mar 4, 2014, 03:10 AM
Mar 2014
https://twitter.com/shustry/status/440744877916438528

Face off between Ukraine base commander Col. Yuli Manchur and Russian officer at occupied Belbek airbase pic.twitter.com/6N10wuezef

steve2470

(37,457 posts)
22. more good info and pics in this thread
Tue Mar 4, 2014, 03:31 AM
Mar 2014
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024601214

This reporter has good info:

https://twitter.com/AnshelPfeffer

Standoff not over yet @ #Belbek #Russia & #Ukraine facing each other, not moving Dozens of guns trained on Ukrainians pic.twitter.com/7fqJ01mwOs


https://twitter.com/AnshelPfeffer/status/440747805725163520

steve2470

(37,457 posts)
25. summary from BBC
Tue Mar 4, 2014, 03:36 AM
Mar 2014

07:27: Pro-Russian troops who control the Belbek air base in Crimea fire warning shots into the air as around 300 Ukrainian soldiers, who previously manned the airfield, demanded their jobs back, AP reports. The Russian troops warned that they would shoot the Ukrainians if they continued to march toward them.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26428296

steve2470

(37,457 posts)
26. summary of Belbek from AP
Tue Mar 4, 2014, 03:46 AM
Mar 2014
On Tuesday, pro-Russian troops who had taken control of the Belbek air in the Crimea region fired warning shots into the air as around 300 Ukrainian soldiers, who previously manned the airfield, demanded their jobs back.

About a dozen Russian soldiers at base stood guarding the airfield and warned the Ukrainians, who were marching unarmed, not to approach. They fired several warning shots into the air and said they would shoot the Ukrainians if they continued to march toward them.

The shots were the first fired since pro-Russian troops — estimated by Ukrainian authorities to be 16,000 strong, tightened their grip on the Crimea Peninsula over the weekend.


http://bigstory.ap.org/article/pro-russian-troops-fire-warning-shots-ukraine

steve2470

(37,457 posts)
27. Talks between Russians and Ukrainians at Belbek fail
Tue Mar 4, 2014, 03:48 AM
Mar 2014

Talks with Russians failed. Ukrainian soldiers at Belbek prepare to march to their aircraft under threat of gunfire pic.twitter.com/KVpiGWAPB3

https://twitter.com/AnshelPfeffer/status/440755018342617088

steve2470

(37,457 posts)
28. Wives of Ukraine officers to join men marching
Tue Mar 4, 2014, 03:52 AM
Mar 2014

Wives of Ukrainian officers prepare to join the men marching on Belbek airbase pic.twitter.com/Z7J0FLELer

https://twitter.com/AnshelPfeffer/status/440756355579015168

steve2470

(37,457 posts)
29. Russian APC arrives at Belbek
Tue Mar 4, 2014, 03:55 AM
Mar 2014

Personnel carrier just arrived, disgorging armed Russian troops at checkpoint. Ukraine commander just finished negotiating.

https://twitter.com/shustry/status/440756698824056833

steve2470

(37,457 posts)
30. Ukraine commander demands to guard base jointly with Russians....
Tue Mar 4, 2014, 04:03 AM
Mar 2014

Ukraine commander demands to guard the base jointly with Russians, who pledge to give their commanders' response by 12:00, in 2 hours

https://twitter.com/shustry/status/440757682707103744

 

jtuck004

(15,882 posts)
31. You mean this isn't the big ol' tough Neo-Nazi's marching into the face of armed Russian
Tue Mar 4, 2014, 04:03 AM
Mar 2014

soldiers? It's regular working soldiers. And their wives?

Imagine that...

davidpdx

(22,000 posts)
44. While full well know we did, I think it is stupid to automatically assume it was the US
Tue Mar 4, 2014, 04:58 AM
Mar 2014

You know what they say about assuming...

A
S
S
U
M
E

ForgoTheConsequence

(4,869 posts)
46. You've already made assumptions.
Tue Mar 4, 2014, 05:01 AM
Mar 2014

You seem to be pretty sure that that thread was full of "lies" without any facts to back that up. It's all up in the air at this point but you seem to have just as much of an agenda and as they do and just as much of an ideology to defend.

davidpdx

(22,000 posts)
47. I'm not just talking about that one thread, I'm referring to multiple threads
Tue Mar 4, 2014, 05:06 AM
Mar 2014

There is no proof that the US did do it. Please prove to me it happened. I'll be over here waiting for your response, but I don't expect much. Typical DU.....

ForgoTheConsequence

(4,869 posts)
48. Why would I prove anything?
Tue Mar 4, 2014, 05:11 AM
Mar 2014

I never made the claim, nor do I believe it was an American led coup (then again, I don't know, and neither do you).


Quit your childish "typical du" bullshit and learn to communicate like an adult.

davidpdx

(22,000 posts)
49. You implied by your response that it was the US
Tue Mar 4, 2014, 05:13 AM
Mar 2014

You are the one who is acting uncivil. Maybe you need an attitude adjustment.

ForgoTheConsequence

(4,869 posts)
50. Don't puff your internet chest out tough guy.
Tue Mar 4, 2014, 05:16 AM
Mar 2014

Quit with the passive aggressiveness and address the people in that thread if their theory bothers you so much.


I never implied anything other than the fact that an American lead coup is just as plausible as an organic revolution.

ForgoTheConsequence

(4,869 posts)
53. I didn't attack anyone.
Tue Mar 4, 2014, 05:20 AM
Mar 2014

YOU accused people on this board of lying and you have yet to prove it. Instead of refuting them in that thread you go around making passive aggressive statements. If they're lying debate them and prove they are lying with facts. Simple as that.

davidpdx

(22,000 posts)
54. They do lie Mr. Snark
Tue Mar 4, 2014, 05:24 AM
Mar 2014

And I know exactly what you are talking about, so don't mince words with me. If people lie it is on them. If you want to stay there and support them, go ahead.

levp

(188 posts)
62. Indeed.
Tue Mar 4, 2014, 11:41 AM
Mar 2014

While I'm sure official US interests in this case coincided with protesters', the new leaders are genuinely more liked in Ukraine, after what many felt was a betrayal by Yanukovich and his cronies.
I can claim this based on information from my wife's family, who lives in Kyiv.

steve2470

(37,457 posts)
32. Ukraine soldiers allowed to break ranks and smoke
Tue Mar 4, 2014, 04:20 AM
Mar 2014

Ukrainian soldiers in Belbek staying put but allowed to break ranks and smoke #Crimea #Ukraine pic.twitter.com/rSgDuj2Zk8

https://twitter.com/AnshelPfeffer/status/440763000036012032

steve2470

(37,457 posts)
33. Ukrainian soldiers and wives discuss return to base statement
Tue Mar 4, 2014, 04:28 AM
Mar 2014

Ukrainian soldiers & wives discussing meaning of #Russia statement - units return to base. Does it mean also #Crimea? pic.twitter.com/HrONVqp6HT

https://twitter.com/AnshelPfeffer/status/440764637177708544

steve2470

(37,457 posts)
35. Russian media now at Belbek
Tue Mar 4, 2014, 04:41 AM
Mar 2014

Russian military truck just brought a handful of (probably Russian) news crews to the Belbek standoff. They're now filming from Russian side

https://twitter.com/shustry/status/440767861506977792

steve2470

(37,457 posts)
40. Ukraine's 204th tactical aviation brigade
Tue Mar 4, 2014, 04:46 AM
Mar 2014

Ukraine's 204th tactical aviation brigade when they just arrived to face down the Russians in Belbek: pic.twitter.com/Zz91TuJHXf

https://twitter.com/shustry/status/440769352582041600

steve2470

(37,457 posts)
41. Russian journalists leave Belbek
Tue Mar 4, 2014, 04:49 AM
Mar 2014

Group of Russian journalists at Belbek emerge from behind the Russian line, interview the soldiers and disappear #Ukraine #Crimea

https://twitter.com/AnshelPfeffer/status/440770113818882048

steve2470

(37,457 posts)
43. pro-Russia Crimeans coming to the base
Tue Mar 4, 2014, 04:58 AM
Mar 2014

Groups of pro #Russia Crimeans are coming to base to try & evict the Ukrainian soldiers. A platoon has been dispatched to guard perimeter

https://twitter.com/AnshelPfeffer/status/440772797150035968

steve2470

(37,457 posts)
56. Berkut attacking base
Tue Mar 4, 2014, 05:44 AM
Mar 2014

Anshel Pfeffer ?@AnshelPfeffer 1m

#Ukraine soldiers very anxious for camera crews to go and film Berkut attacking other side of base. Obvious we are being used here #Belbek
Expand Reply Retweet Favorite More


Anshel Pfeffer ?@AnshelPfeffer 4m

Local Berkut seem to have attacked the administrative building at Belbek airbase #Crimea #Ukraine

https://twitter.com/AnshelPfeffer

steve2470

(37,457 posts)
57. 4 wives marched with officer husbands
Tue Mar 4, 2014, 05:54 AM
Mar 2014

Marching along with the Ukraine brigade were the wives of four of the officers, all standing surrounded by Russian snipers at Belbek

https://twitter.com/shustry/status/440786269619384320

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