Venezuela looks to S.American leaders as toll hits 20
Source: AFP
Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro urged a meeting of South American leaders over the growing turmoil facing his country, where the death toll from a month of anti-government protests hit 20.
The under-pressure leader's move on Thursday came a day after he broke off relations with Panama, following its call for the rival Washington-based Organization of American States (OAS) to convene on the crisis.
The latest fatalities were a police officer who succumbed in hospital to a gunshot wound to the chest after clashes in Caracas, and a civilian who was reportedly shot when riding a motorcycle in the capital.
Street protests erupted in Venezuela on February 4 and have continued every day since in the biggest challenge yet to Maduro's nearly year-old, socialist-inspired government.
Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/venezuela-looks-american-leaders-toll-hits-20-021335079.html
I guess Panama won't be invited.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)hack89
(39,171 posts)His problems and their solutions lie solely within Venezula's borders.
Zorra
(27,670 posts)hack89
(39,171 posts)He certainly does not have Hugo's deft touch with the masses. That is always the problem with personality driven political movements - what happens when the successor has no personality?
I have no doubt that the right wing is taking advantage of the mess he has created but if the government was not so incompetent the right wing would harmless. The government created the social and economic instability that gave them an opportunity. The government needs to fix the economy and reduce violent crime quickly or they are in deep trouble.
Zorra
(27,670 posts)but these protests consist of a very miniscule percentage of the Venezuelan population.
I've yet to find any credible sources that describe any of these protests as specifically having more than 20,000 people, and, generally, not all of those on the side of the opposition, some being pro-government protesters countering the RW protests.. Some sources describe the number as "tens of thousands", but none that I have found specifically describe the number as more than 20,000
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Venezuelan_protests#Timeline_of_events
Yeh, things are not perfect anywhere, and Venezuela does have some extreme problems worth complaining about.
As does the US.
The first Occupy protest to receive widespread attention was Occupy Wall Street in New York City's Zuccotti Park, which began on 17 September 2011. By 9 October, Occupy protests had taken place or were ongoing in over 951 cities across 82 countries, and over 600 communities in the United States.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupy_movement
For perspective, most of the false impressions about the protests in Venezuela are being deliberately created by the same 1% owned RW MSM that deliberately helped Bush gain public support for his invasion of Iraq.
I generally don't buy their bullshit on important world events in which the 1% has a pack of hungry dogs in the hunt, unless I get several corroborating outside sources that back up the information they present.
And if anyone wants serious people to believe what they say, they should never release a bunch of photoshopped and/or irrelevant photos to make their case.
If they deliberately lie once, they will continue to deliberately lie. If they need to deliberately lie to make their case, their case is bogus.
Lies and deception are the native tongues of the right wing and their propaganda spokespersons.
hack89
(39,171 posts)Their inflation and murder rates are an order of magnitude higher than ours - more people were murdered in VZ than America despite a huge population disparity. There are no food shortages in America. Our economy is growing, theirs is not. We don't have to impose draconian currency laws to prevent currency flight. We haven't suffered a massive brain drain like they did after Hugo fired 18,000 oil workers (which triggered a decades long decline in oil production).
No, VZ is much worse off than we are.
Zorra
(27,670 posts)than they were before Venezuela elected a socialist government. Waaaay better off.
Better off and worse off are relative, and a matter of perspective. The average worker in Venezuela may consider being better off as having enough food, education, and medical care, while the average worker in the US might consider being able to afford to take a vacation as better off.
However, the 1% in Venezuela is definitely far worse off than they were before Chavez became President, for sure.
Unfortunately, the average worker in the US today is far worse off economically than they were when Clinton was President. The 1% in the US, however, are massively better off than when Clinton was President.
Even the fascist WSJ agrees.
The 1% Captures Most Growth From Recovery
You dont have to be an Occupier to understand the two-speed nature of the recovery. While the one percent has rebounded strongly (thanks to stock markets), the 99% has fared less well due to weak jobs and housing.
A new report, however, shows that the two recoveries may be even further apart than we thought. A study by Emmanuel Saez shows that in 2009 and 2010, the first year of the current recovery the one percent captured 93% of the income growth. Thats right, 93%.
Forget two-speeds. Its more like the one percent is in a fast lane and the rest are stalled in the parking lot.
Here are the numbers:
CYCLE TOP 1% INCOME GROWTH 99% INCOME GROWTH
1993-2000 98.7% 20.3%
2001 Recession (30.8%) (6.5%)
2002-2007 61.8% 6.8%
2007 Recession (36.3%) (11.6%)
2009-2010 11.6% 0.2%
http://blogs.wsj.com/wealth/2012/03/06/the-1-captures-most-growth-from-recovery/
snip---
Yale professor and economist Robert J. Shiller, who was among three Americans who won the Nobel prize for economics in 2013, believes that rising economic inequality in the United States and other countries is "the most important problem that we are facing now today."[24] Pope Francis echoed this sentiment in his Evangelii Gaudium, stating that "as long as the problems of the poor are not radically resolved by rejecting the absolute autonomy of markets and financial speculation and by attacking the structural causes of inequality, no solution will be found for the worlds problems or, for that matter, to any problems."[25] President Barack Obama
referred to the widening income gap as the "defining challenge of our time."[26]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_inequality_in_the_United_States
hack89
(39,171 posts)their economy is dying. Oil revenue is down, the domestic economy is dying because there are no foreign currency reserves to pay for imported goods, they can't pay their debts, the infrastructure is crumbling and there is no chance of foreign investment.
That success was built on a mountain of debt - VZ will learn the same harsh lessons that Greece learned. You can borrow to prosperity for a period of time but eventually the bills will come due.
Panama is an observing state in UNASUR... I think what you meant was, I guess United States won't be invited.
smokey775
(228 posts)That's why he said that Panama probably wouldn't be invited.
Okay, go ahead and invite Martinelli into a conversation that deals with a situation between the Government and its people. Let's all make sure Martinelli gets invited, the guy who passed a law that gave immunity to police officers in any violence they cause to strikers. Yeah, let's make sure thats the guy we put in the forefront in this situation.
daleo
(21,317 posts)They have some experience in the matter.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)truthisfreedom
(23,148 posts)I'm just sayin'.
smokey775
(228 posts)The people of Venezuela are sick and tired of the corruption in govt, the high crime rate, shortages of food, even the poor are joining in the protests now.
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)The majority of the Venezuelan people have voted for the Bolivarian movement every time since 1998.
smokey775
(228 posts)but this time for a competent candidate who will actually try to address the country's problems instead of blaming everyone else for their problems.
Maduro's been long on slogans and short on action.
delrem
(9,688 posts)The one among several identical zeros who has anticipatory orgasms at the thought, the hope, of an overthrow of the Bolivarian revolution, while exlaiming on DU about how he is a supporter of the Bolivarian revolution.
Are any of the others *different* than this one?
Zorro
(15,740 posts)smokey775
(228 posts)Things in Venezuela not going the way you want them to?
Here, have a cookie.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)smokey775
(228 posts)I support the Bolivarian movement, just not that clown in power right now, he's calling me a pretend lefty.
Absolutely you can have one.
Here, take his.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)"Pretend Bolivarian!" Who knew there was a purity test?
I think many in the streets are at the point where they don't give a shit if Bozo the Clown is running the joint, so long as the murders, shortages, and inflation just stops.
iemitsu
(3,888 posts)of attrition.
We make sure the government can't function and then the voters take care of the rest.
MADem
(135,425 posts)I know Maduro keeps trying to blame this one, that one and the other one, but it's just not accurate. This is a student led effort--even the assorted political parties are taking a back seat to the student activists; they are the ones doing the organizing and motivating. It's a very organic and organized effort; the students gather into small disciplined groups (which makes infiltration by colectivos and others difficult) and everyone has a role, taking pictures, watching out for infiltratorss, bringing food and stuff to combat the tear gas, a few medical supplies, etc. They aren't screwing around.
The politicians are no doubt thrilled at the persistence of the youths but they aren't directing this movement--it's students.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)We know your family was in construction in VZ, how in touch are you with the VZ construction industry now?
I wonder who might be financing the students?
Just read an article out of Florida wherein it was openly discussed that VZ students were being trained in Florida. Know anything about that?
MADem
(135,425 posts)My grandfather has been dead for over half a century, so you do the math, Skippy.
Post your "article" that you "just read," why doncha? Let's see your source for that crazy assertion! Yeah, I'm sure the students are flying to FL between demonstrations--that have been happening every day for the past month, without let-up. That's a sweet trick!
You really ARE mad, aren'tcha? Following me round like a little puppy dog, nipping at my heels? Ooooooooooh, foot-stomping mad, I'd say!
smokey775
(228 posts)Smells like BS to me.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)But RWNJs are drooling over Putin's manly charms, all of them, from Palin to Rohrbacher,.
They think going into other countries is sexy. Could be a fetish for them: Ah, Mother Land!
Sex obsessed Repukes have such issues, I don't think we do.
EX500rider
(10,849 posts)freshwest
(53,661 posts)JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)The CIA has been supporting the pro-oligarchic movement since 1998 and are of course happy about the present situation, especially its absurd reception in the West -- such as in the OP story, which avoids attribution of the deaths described, suggesting that the pro-oligarchic opposition is responsible.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)Though such entities make use of the tools available to them, and connections within the deep state make for powerful tools. Certainly "CIA" is a shorthand for all the tools available from within the intelligence community and its parapolitical ecology.
EX500rider
(10,849 posts)I see...so EVERY other party but Maduro's are the pro-oligarchic opposition? BS to that.
Democratic Action
Acción Democrática Social democracy
A New Era
Un Nuevo Tiempo UNT Reformism
Independent Electoral Political Organization Committee
Comité de Organización Política Electoral Independiente COPEI Christian democracy
Justice First
Primero Justicia PJ Humanism
For Social Democracy
Por la Democracia Social PODEMOS Social democracy
Project Venezuela
Proyecto Venezuela PV Christian democracy
Communist Party of Venezuela
Partido Comunista de Venezuela PCV Communism
The Radical Cause
La Causa Radical LCR Labourism
Popular Will
Voluntad Popular VP Progressivism
Movement for Socialism
Movimiento al Socialismo MAS Socialism
Fearless People's Alliance
Alianza Bravo Pueblo ABP Social democracy
National Convergence
Convergencia Nacional CN Conservatism
Convergencia Nacional
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)based in the upper classes, and trying, with support from the U.S., to reverse the country's gains of the last 16 years.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Surely you can't be so obtuse that you're missing this?
This is the face of VZ these days:
Ikonoklast
(23,973 posts)He is doubling down on suppressing any and all dissent, calling them terrorists and labeling them as lackeys for Imperialists, but that tactic is wearing thin even with those that support a socialist Venezuela.
Record high inflation, a murder rate that is astronomical, lack of basic foods, suppressing any dissent will not make you a very popular politician.
amandabeech
(9,893 posts)But without the snipers.
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)They need their own Svoboda and Right Sector? Their own displacement of political and economic issues into ethnoreligious reaction? Their own lobby for closer ties to the corporate West and the adoption of neoliberal policies? Sounds great! No worries, they've already got it, and it makes up a big part of the "opposition."
seveneyes
(4,631 posts)And no snipers, gasoline bombs or bricks.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Zorra
(27,670 posts)President. They tried and failed, with US support, to overthrow Chavez in 2002.
Maduro is not nearly as charismatic as Chavez, so the right wingers know that if they keep agitating they might have a shot at weakening, and maybe even toppling, the government, and installing a RW government.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)The place fell apart, and I don't know if they'll ever get it back together again. This could go on for years.
Zorra
(27,670 posts)The current protests in Venezuela are reminiscent of another historical moment when street protests were used by right-wing politicians as part of an attempt to overthrow the elected government. From December of 2002 through February 2003, there was strike of mostly white-collar workers at the national oil industry, along with some business owners. The US media made it look like most of the country was on strike against the government, when, in fact, it was less than one percent of the labor force.
The spread of cell phone videos and social media in the past decade has made it more difficult to misrepresent things that can be easily captured on camera. But Venezuela is still grossly distorted in the major media. The New York Times had to run a correction last week for an article that began with a statement about "The only television station that regularly broadcast voices critical of the government " As it turns out, all of the private TV stations "regularly broadcast voices critical of the government". And private media has more than 90% of the TV-viewing audience in Venezuela. A study by the Carter Center of the presidential election campaign period last April showed a 57 to 34% advantage in TV coverage for President Maduro over challenger Henrique Capriles in the April election, but that advantage is greatly reduced or eliminated when audience shares are taken into account.
Although there are abuses of power and problems with the rule of law in Venezuela as there are throughout the hemisphere it is far from the authoritarian state that most consumers of western media are led to believe. Opposition leaders currently aim to topple the democratically elected government their stated goal by portraying it as a repressive dictatorship that is cracking down on peaceful protest. This is a standard "regime change" strategy, which often includes violent demonstrations in order to provoke state violence.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/mar/04/venezuela-protests-not-ukraine-class-sturggle
I find it very disturbing that so many DUers are supporting another RW coup attempt in Venezuela. It's like cheering on a Teabaggers coup of our government.
smokey775
(228 posts)why do you keep pushing that crap?
You seem to think that not supporting that buffoon Maduro is supporting a RW coup which is a false statement.
Zorra
(27,670 posts)EX500rider
(10,849 posts)No, actually he does not explain how me thinking he is doing a bad job is the same thing as supporting a RW coup.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)It is an obstacle that will be hard to overcome, and not their fault. This nation was barely in one piece less than a century after it was created, and even with a civil war, the practice of black slavery was not entirely rooted out by any means.
The new style of governance in VZ has not had that long to establish itself. Not that the USA was not attacked by a stronger military force in less than a quarter century after the Constitution was ratified. And Americans had the advantage of holding the land and were able to repell invasion.
In a country as old as VZ, it's hard to establish a working socialist system since the oligarchs are entrenched and have generations of supporters from a different class than that which Chavez was keen to lift up by socialist practice.
In a loose analogy, I'd say it could be constued to be like the situation of AA's here, who were held down and robbed all the way back to the very beginning and still are three centuries later. That is why the oligarchs are so hard to beat, they hold the land and those who are in need of change are up against a system that sees them as the outliers.
That is what the problem is, not the words of people on DU one way or the other. The suffering that is going on may end the experiment that Hugo began, or it may be able to find a compromise with the oligarchs to continue at a slower pace, until all can see the advantages of it.
I don't think civil war is the answer as the world appears to be going through an extremely regressive era. We don't like it and don't want it, but it is out there. The cards are stacked against the world's poor and vulnerable but some progress is being made.
Only the people of VZ will pay the cost for this, not us here, no matter how much it grieves us. For their sake, I hope both sides compromise and not have any further street battles. The longer this goes on, the greater the chance that the government will fall and whatever progress was made will be lost. We can't ignore those students who are not the enemy, they are the future. I'm hoping the call for a summit of SA leaders will bring this to a peaceful solution.
MADem
(135,425 posts)or are part of the colectivos paid by the government.
Big plans tomorrow:
This is happening on SAT:
This is happening on Sunday:
Christiane Amanpour has landed an interview with Maduro--it will air tomorrow, I am hearing.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)...to the chest after clashes in Caracas, and a civilian who was reportedly shot when riding a motorcycle in the capital."
Also, I think about five of the fatalities were people who died in wrecks at those opposition roadblocks.
There is this from FAIR a couple of weeks ago:
http://www.fair.org/blog/2014/02/22/news-from-venezuela-but-where-is-it-coming-from/
And, in fact, not all the dead are protesters, or killed by pro-government forces. Yesterday, Venezuelanalysis (2/21/14)a pro-government but independent websiteput out a fuller list of people killed in the ongoing clashes, adding up to 10. Three people died after crashing into barricades set up by the opposition, and another personthe brother of a pro-government legislatorwas shot while trying to open up a barricaded street. A protester was run over by a motorist trying to drive through a barricade; the driver was reportedly arrested. An intelligence service officer was also arrested in connection with a shooting incident on February 12 that left two people deadone a protester, the other a government sympathizer.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Last edited Fri Mar 7, 2014, 02:59 PM - Edit history (1)
The people "crashed into the barricades" because they were shot by the colectivos.
People have been shot in the streets more recently than that--if you go to the Anonymous VZ feeds, they even take pictures of the "asesinos" and put them up. Frequently they're ID'd by people who know them and disapprove of their conduct.
Any time you see a "motorcycle driver" killed or wounded, that's not some schmuck on his way home, that is a colectivo--they are armed, they're paid by the government to shoot people and disrupt peaceful demonstrations with violence, and they are assholes. That "thug on a bike" paradigm is common in Iran, too, AhmadiNejad probably taught it to Chavez way back when.
A saying in VZ these days is "The only refrigerators that are full are at the morgue."
Edited to add a list of names of the fallen:
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)Mérida, 7th March 2014 (Venezuelanalysis.com) A motorcyclist and a National Guard officer have been shot dead on an opposition street barricade as unrest in Venezuela continues.
The killings occurred yesterday when a group of motorbike-taxi workers tried to clear an opposition barricade on a street in the middle class Los Ruices district of Caracas. While doing so, they were attacked by a group of residents from nearby buildings, who threw rocks and other objects at the motorcyclists.
The motorcyclists responded by throwing objects back at the residents, creating a confused melee, Reuters reported. According to authorities and local press reports, when the National Guard arrived to control the situation, shots from adjacent buildings were fired, killing a National Guard officer, Acner Isaac López (25), and a moto-taxi worker, José Gregorio Amaris (24).
-----
The Venezuela Analysis report cites Reuters.
I like how they call the colectivos "motorbike-taxi workers."
I looked at a bunch of Venezuela Anonymous, but I didn't scroll through enough posts to find those pages you mentioned.
It looks to me like there is endemic street violence going on. People blockading streets, burning shit, using giant slingshots against the cops, and plenty of heavy handed cop action. People are getting killed on both sides.
MADem
(135,425 posts)to take down the barricades that the students put up. He's actually ORDERING them to go in there and do this, and it's a dangerous thing he's doing and he knows it. He WANTS there to be "class warfare" but what he doesn't realize is that some of the people on the "student" side of the barricades wear red shirts with PDVSA on them when they're told to show up by their bosses at a rally. His "side" is not holding. He won them over with things--food, cellphones, electricity, running water...when those things are no where to be found, what's the point of loyalty?
The students have no guns. They have no rubber bullets, steel pellets, beanbags, tear gas, or real bullets. They are blockading the streets but they aren't shooting at or hitting anyone, unless the cops line up and start shooting at them--then they're retaliating with rocks (and throwing the tear gas back at the cops). This IS "David v. Goliath" but what the students have is NUMBERS.
The reason for the trash and barricades is because the students want to stop movement throughout the city (as Maduro did when he tried to prevent demonstrations and marches by shutting down the city buses--bet he wishes he could take back that dumbass move). There's going to be a three day general strike--they aren't giving up.
You do know Venezuelananalysis is a total tool of the Maduro regime, don't you? Even wikipedia acknowledges that it is pro-Chavez/left leaning (whatever THAT means, these days...the students in the street look more like leftists these days, wanting silly things like food and an end to inflation and crime for everyone) --it's run by slavish loyalists to the whole Chavista ideal who lived large when Chavez was alive and well. I wonder how long they'd be touting the party line if they actually had to live under those conditions, instead of being fat and happy in USA?
Here are some examples of the incitors/asesinos posts I was telling you about:
https://twitter.com/prosemica55/status/442134783121178625/photo/1
https://twitter.com/SoyVnezolano/status/441989262678839296/photo/1 (making the point you made about motor taxis)
https://twitter.com/SoyVnezolano/status/441989262678839296/photo/1
https://twitter.com/SoyVnezolano/status/441737974896553984/photo/1
https://twitter.com/PK2noticiosos/status/441774199091527680/photo/1
https://twitter.com/the_chinox/status/441719064163913728/photo/1
https://twitter.com/elpataensuelo/status/441226722378121219/photo/1
https://twitter.com/elsabonin/status/441716703118897152/photo/1
https://twitter.com/divinamentebi/status/440524373062352896/photo/1
https://twitter.com/SoyVnezolano/status/441737974896553984/photo/1
The purpose is to prevent them from continuing to disrupt the demonstrations--they're named and known. People see them and know what they're up to, they cannot easily infiltrate and create chaos.
It is a shame that extremely wealthy 1% RW extremists like Lopez, Capriles, and Machado, (etc.) have co-opted the original student protests and tarnished their legitimacy, and are now using them as a possible means for the RW to take control of Venezuela.
Nothing good can come from a RW takeover of any country, anywhere.
Remember this covert RW coup, my friend? And the consequences past, present and future?
The U.S. Supreme Court, in a 54 decision, stated that the Supreme Court of Florida had violated the U.S. Constitution when it ordered the recount only in certain districts, and that the recount had already been tainted by shifting methods of vote-counting. Both of these, it said, violated the equal-protection guarantees of the Fourteenth Amendment. The court then said that there was no way to hold an acceptable recount by the final election deadline. As a result, it ordered the recounts abandoned, effectively naming Bush the winner of the national election. By the time of the decision, a month had passed since the nation had cast its ballots.
The Court's decision ended the speculation on who would be president, but it remains a highly controversial moment in the Court's history. Even the Justices themselves couldn't agree on many aspects of the case. Two majority opinions and four minority opinions were filed, each citing different reasons for its author's decision. Some people argue that the Court had no business taking on the case at all, and that it should have let the Florida Supreme Court's decision stand without comment. Others have said that the way that the judicial decisions throughout the case split along party linesRepublicans sided with Bush, and Democrats sided with Goreprovided evidence that the case was decided by politics, not by law.
The details of Bush v. Gore will probably be argued over for a long time. However, the decision was made, and history was made with it.
As they say, the rest is history, and the history resulting from RW government is never good.
Great post, btw!
MADem
(135,425 posts)Maduro can't get a line of credit anywhere.
The answer to food shortages that have necessitated rationing isn't "Eat less." And that's what the rather well-fed Maduro said to the people.
That kind of stuff goes over like a lead balloon.
Bacchus4.0
(6,837 posts)Maduro is trying not to deviate, at least in his own mind, from what he thinks Chavez would do. Thats certanly a big part of the problem. Chavez had a big mouth but was at least somewhat articulate in his buffoonery. Maduro is just inept without leadership qualities or the gift for gab.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Cuba's influence over Maduro grew, Maduro made bad loan deals with China (and now he owes them a ton of oil), and the money keeps wandering out the door. No one is watching. The country is near collapse.
Wonder how Maduro is going to ship that oil he owes for those loans to China since he halted relations with Panama? Take the long way round?
Bacchus4.0
(6,837 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)It's only a matter of time before oil goes the way of the dodo, and will be used as a lubricant, not a fuel. One day, hopefully soon, we'll harness that solar and wind and kiss burning shit goodbye. I can't wait.
Until that day comes, though, VZ should be using all that cruddy black crap under their territory for their good. They should be building universities, training doctors (instead of buying them at usurious cost from Cuba with oil), teaching the children, "professionalizing" the NG and police. They could be the shining stars of SA--they have the raw material. Smart, motivated, energetic people (look at the folks in the streets--one cannot call them lazy).
Instead, they give the oil away, borrow against it and squander the money, and the people are not getting the benefit they should be getting. A smart manager can do this. It will take work, dedication, exhortation, personality, courage, verve... Maduro doesn't have those qualities.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)The money owed the Chinese can't be overrated, either. They're too valuable a trading partner to lose. Odd that he rails against the USA. It seems purely ideological. Aren't we one of Venezuela's biggest and most reliable customers?
I don't know how he can ship the oil to China and not use the Panama Canal. This could not be handled any worse than it has been. It's a shame.
EX500rider
(10,849 posts)freshwest
(53,661 posts)Judi Lynn
(160,542 posts)Unemployment Venezuela December 2013
< Unemployment 2013-11
Unemployment [+] 5.6%
http://countryeconomy.com/unemployment/venezuela
smokey775
(228 posts)You're comparing a country of 29.5 million people, with an unemployment rate of 5.6% to the US which has a 315 million people with an unemployment rate of 6.7%, that makes our unemployment rate much, much better.
Judi Lynn
(160,542 posts)smokey775
(228 posts)Still posting those photoshopped pics?
MADem
(135,425 posts)They don't have real jobs. It's like The Sopranos--"no work" jobs and "no show" jobs for the mobbed-up. Without patronage and pay-for-enforcing the figures would be higher.
No one in their right mind would think that those punks with guns on motorcycles, going into peaceful demos and shooting people, are gainfully "employed" but that is how they get their paychecks.
Bacchus4.0
(6,837 posts)Venezuelan Foreign Minister Elías Jaua has informed that break-off of Venezuela-Panama ties includes the suspension of the negotiations on the debt owed by Venezuelan corporations to Panamanian firms based in Colon Free Zone (ZLC).
CFZ's manager Leopoldo Benedetti told AFP that Venezuelan businessmen's debt to providers at the Colon Free Zone (CFZ) amounts to some USD 2 billion, and "arises from the lack of currency of Venezuelan entrepreneurs caused by US dollar shortage in the country."
Following the break-off in the bilateral relations, Panamanian President Ricardo Martinelli vowed on Twitter that the policies favoring migration and investments by Venezuelans would not change.
Furthermore, the move would not hit Venezuela's oil exports as oil tankers do not pass through the Panama Canal.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Perhaps they take possession, sell it locally, and use the money to buy more...?
There is a rumor that the Chinese AND Russians have naval vessels off the coast of VZ. Absolutely NO idea if that's hogwash or what, but I found it an intriguing speculation.
hack89
(39,171 posts)They load in the Carribean - I'm not sure the exact route they take after that.
Zorro
(15,740 posts)and thus can be traded so.
MADem
(135,425 posts)I don't know what else VZ might be using that canal for, but it's kind of difficult to access it when you've told the nation-owners to go eff themselves! It's a long way round by sea...!
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Last edited Sat Mar 8, 2014, 03:06 PM - Edit history (1)
So how is it sent - the hard way around the tip of SA or are there pipelines to take it to the Pacific?
Or does it take a path to the USA, where most of their oil goes to, and then to ports in Mexico or California to get it to China?
Thanks for the information.
MADem
(135,425 posts)We refine a lot of their oil (it's heavy and sour and we have the refinery capacity to handle that nasty stuff). If they had their shit together, and ran their country like a business, they'd refine their OWN oil--get rid of the middlemen and ship a lighter, smoother, ready-to-use product (for which they can charge much, MUCH more per barrel--the stuff they sell is cheap because it's nasty).
Although (ON EDIT)...I seem to remember them (the Chinese) building a refinery to handle that stuff--but I'm not clear on where I read that. Definitely a subject for research on a rainy day..!
But Maduro doesn't understand how you have to watch your finances so you can afford these kinds of big infrastructure dreams; that would, in the end, pay off handsomely. You can't let your cronies rob the place blind. You can't make stupid payouts to countries that are sucking you dry. He should build an entire system for easy oil distribution, maybe partner with neighbors for pipelines; instead, he's running the place like a drunken farmer's vegetable stand. It's pathetic.
Of course, when Raul says jump, he says How High? It's in Raul's interest to keep Nick on a short leash--Cuba needs that oil, at least for now and until they develop their own energy sector.
You can't even buy a plane ticket with the crappy money anymore.