Ukrainian military bases targeted in Crimea
Source: BBC News
Pro-Russian protesters have stormed a Ukrainian naval base in western Crimea.
Several hundred unarmed protesters attacked the base at Novofedorivka, which is now under almost complete control of Russian forces.
Meanwhile, Ukrainian troops surrounded by Russian forces have been ordered to battle stations at Belbek airbase.
Russian forces, including snipers and armoured personnel carriers, have advanced and an ultimatum to surrender has just expired.
Read more: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26698754
pangaia
(24,324 posts)Talk about a sociopath... yikes!
It's the madmen against the madmen and we're just stuck in our huts....
seveneyes
(4,631 posts)dreamstst
(53 posts)He doesn't seem insane to me.
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)I see a few deaths on the horizon.
davidpdx
(22,000 posts)There is no reason Russia shouldn't just do it if they ask. At this point it's the best outcome. Anything else is going to be a bloody mess. The Ukraine needs to worry about the rest of their country. Things have cooled off a little, it would be nice if the situation stayed that way.
blackspade
(10,056 posts)Just tell the Ukrainians to leave, and then let them.
My hypothesis is that the Russians want all of the Ukrainian ships, planes, and other hardware.
It's not enough that they just stole a chunk of Ukraine, apparently.
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)why do you think the sunk a ship to block the harbor, To protect the Russian speaking citizens? Give me a break. They wanted Crimea with all of the Ukrainian assets. This will make it easier to continue and take over the east of Ukraine as they have confiscated most Ukrainian military assets. The only thing that MAY stop them is international observers due in Ukraine, Funny how they were banned and shot at in Crimea.
newthinking
(3,982 posts)He or they have to surrender because of the situation. Nobody is going to let someone just walk out without their hands up since they could have a gun and shoot someone. At this point it is more like a police action.
Igel
(35,359 posts)The troops have been recalled. They must surrender, give up their gear, their ID, their money, and their belongings. They will be held, questioned, and released.
This includes those who live in Crimea. In more than a few cases, their families have had Aksenov men (or "self-defense troops" show up at their doorstep and tell them they have 10 minutes to pack a suitcase and get themselves and their kids out because they're trespassing. And a Russian family is waiting on the sidewalk for their new digs. Or the apt. is transferred to a wealthy Crimean friend of Aksenov, who rents it out to a Russian.
All the contents of their bases were nationalized by Aksenov weeks ago when he appointed himself the head of the Crimean military and said all Ukrainian military property was under his direct control. Presumably it's all Russian-owned now or Goblin transferred it to friends before transferral to Putin. That includes ships, choppers, gasoline, pipelines, solar cells, guns, ammo, etc.
The recall wasn't on those terms. Ships were recalled with their complements. But the ships have been blocked from leaving numerous times because the ships and all their non-human contents must be retained. In one case a derelict ship was towed to block a harbor. Ships are interposed between the Ukr ships and the channels they need to be in. Ports don't let the tugs move the larger ships away from their berths safely and the Ukr care more about Russian lives than the Russians care about Ukr lives (thus clearly showing the truly inferior, fascist nature of the Ukrainians troops).
The proper response would be to find whatever ammo there is and do as much damage to the ships as possible. Sink them if possible. Destroy any electronics. Use chemicals. Scorched earth: If the shipe explodes and takes out a nearby tug or Russian ship, so be it. It's not a friendly removal of troops--it's confiscation and humiliation of an enemy that you've defeated, and you want to show that you've crushed them and despoiled them. For the glory of the fatherland, the otechestvo. (People act as though Russian's have a "motherland": There's "Mat' Rossiya," Mother Russia. But "patriotic" and "homeland" come out as "fatherland." WWII is the Great Patriotic War or equally the Great Fatherland War. They speak of their homeland or their fatherland--same word. We just prefer to reserve "fatherland" for those we want to spin as fascists and find ways around that for those we like.)
cosmicone
(11,014 posts)as an excuse to invade the rest of Ukraine.
The best strategy for Ukraine is to stand down and swallow the losses. They really are in no position to take on the Russian military. No country in Europe is.
dreamstst
(53 posts)If he were going to do that, he would have already done it. Instead, he has concluded the war games along the easter Ukraine border and pulled back the troops.
Response to Igel (Reply #14)
newthinking This message was self-deleted by its author.
davidpdx
(22,000 posts)I'm just saying it's not worth the loss of life at this point. I don't agree with what happened, but I don't want to see to see Ukrainian soldiers killed.
newthinking
(3,982 posts)All it can end with is disaster. They can't "save" nor will they be able to save the country. All they are doing at this point is causing more tension and potentially risking theirs and others lives.
dipsydoodle
(42,239 posts)is how many actually want to return to Ukraine and how wish to stay in Crimea.
dreamstst
(53 posts)Many of them have been associated with the former Russian-oriented Yanukovych government. They might be regarded as traitors by the new Ukraine. I don't know what the policy of Russia will be toward these people.
davidpdx
(22,000 posts)http://news.yahoo.com/pro-russian-forces-storm-ukrainian-crimea-161626492.html
My point is why leave them any longer when the whole thing has been decided. They are most likely out numbered by the Russians. If something were to happen it would be a bloodbath.
Granted it has only been a week, but I think they should be offered safe passage back to Ukraine. The last thing that is needed is more dead.
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)Putin moves on other parts of Eukraine. The next month is going to be very interesting both domestically and globally.
dreamstst
(53 posts)Last edited Sat Mar 22, 2014, 04:07 PM - Edit history (1)
Why would Russia want to try to rule an unruly fascist Ukraine?
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)Stalin in this. Putin will try to restore the Soviet Union by 2020. He went into Crimea because he thought Russians were being threatened. This tactic won't work again as easily, but others will depending largely what happens in the US this year. Just my opinion.
Putin is no Stalin. You are replaying the cold war. So is the mainstream media. So you have plenty of company.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)It was PUTIN who started this... Stop rationalizing for that brute.
ballyhoo
(2,060 posts)to Glory. Did you not read this? Did you ever read of Stalin and the Bolsheviks. Stalin was a glory hound, as is Putin. Their method of achievement are different however.
dreamstst
(53 posts)The Ukrainian commander of the base, Col. Yuliy Mamchur, said there was at least one injury. He called his men together, they sang the Ukrainian national anthem and then stood at ease. He then told his men to put their weapons in the base's armory.
http://news.yahoo.com/pro-russian-forces-storm-ukrainian-crimea-161626492.html
davidpdx
(22,000 posts)penultimate
(1,110 posts)Aye?
Benton D Struckcheon
(2,347 posts)For instance: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-03-20/ukraine-military-concedes-on-crimea-as-russia-takes-hold.html
This guy at Belbek looks like he wants to be a hero.
Sam Houston told the guys at The Alamo to get out of there, because it was indefensible, but they stayed and got slaughtered. This guy looks like he wants to go in glory or something.
Stupid.
dreamstst
(53 posts)Then everything should calm down. The only risk of war is the Russian communities in eastern Ukraine, which may be subjected to Ukrainian repression under the new fascist government.
Earth_First
(14,910 posts)BELBEK AIRBASE, Crimea (Reuters) - The commander of Belbek airbase in Crimea said on Saturday he would be taken away by Russian forces for talks after they entered the base with armored vehicles and automatic rifles.
One Ukrainian was injured in the takeover of the base, which had been one of the last military facilities in Crimea still under Ukrainian control, Ukraine's Colonel Juliy Mamchur told Reuters.
Asked if he thought he would return safely from the talks at an unspecified location - he said: "That remains to be seen. For now we are placing all our weapons in the base's storage."
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSBREA2L0BN20140322?irpc=932
WatermelonRat
(340 posts)dreamstst
(53 posts)No civil war is necessary. The West got what it wanted: a unified, right wing Ukraine. The Russians got what they wanted: a historically Russian part of Russia--Crimea.